• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Steroid Discussion ~ ver. Healthy Living

Status
Not open for further replies.
what side effects do you mean? Can you be a little clearer.

Coming on and off you can sometimes get some outbreak of light acne patterning. You can also get fluctuating moods, aggression if large doses are run. Your testicles shrink, there's no way around that unfortunately other than running HCG (a drug that stimulates LH which stimulates the testicles/keeps their volume/keeps ejaculate volume up). Energy levels can fall during the first week or two of PCT, but as long as the person is running an appropriate PCT this will be short-lived.
 
Easy on the roid rage. Dont wanna show your pic thats fine, i just thought you might had done it already.

I don't need steroids to become angry toward people like you that hide behind their keyboards and sling out hate. You know what you were doing, Portilla. You were being sarcastic/mean-hearted toward me and purposely trying to bait me. Again, you're not worth my time.
 
^ Haha. You have serious issues. I wasnt baiting you, i wasnt being mean hearted and i wasnt hiding behind my keyboard.
 
image025.gif


Edited because of the brain cancer reference.
 
Last edited:
^^^Brain cancer??? That's utter bullshit Port and I hope you really don't believe that. That's what anti-steroid proponents are basing their facts on? The fact that an ex-NFL star and steroid user developed brain cancer later on in life, and himself claimed it was linked to steroids. No doctors, scientists, NO PROOF.

The media is completely biased on the matter, and I've only seen one true documentary special on roids and it was by HBO's Real Sports...check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LEj8IPHGU

EDIT: Video quality is shitty
 
what a load of crap. Anyways, what steroids? Test only cycles? 50mg of Dbol cycles? Anadrol? Primo? Thats like saying here's a chart with side effects for recreational drugs. Its meaningless.

Thats propaganda at its worst. Just scare tactics. Most of those side effects can easily be circumvented by proper use of ancillary drugs and a PCT.

ps brain cancer what the fuck!?!?
 
Sooo, none of the diehard anti-steroid advocates have anything to say regarding the video? No comments portillo? C'monnn. Why so quiet man? :)

It just really bugs me how much people seem to downright hate steroids, without knowing much about the actual compounds.

Don't blindly believe everthing you see or read, and form a definite opinion without bothering to at least learn that steroids definetely do not cause brain cancer! hahaha take that ridiculous model down! It's hurting your arguement because it's so lame and unbelieveable! :eek: %)

It does make me laugh every time i see that 2nd model though; the bruises on his leg, bowel movement irregularities...tell me how that one works? ahaha how do steroids cause this?
 
Last edited:
Im surprized at the pro steroid to be honest. Use steroids do whatever you want. Hopefully you dont end up like Flex Wheeler, needing a kidney transplant.
 
Im surprized at the pro steroid to be honest. Use steroids do whatever you want. Hopefully you dont end up like Flex Wheeler, needing a kidney transplant.

Who's to say that wasn't from drinking and poppin pain killers? A lot of steroid users who may have had believable conditions possibly related to steroids, and not freakin brain cancer, also abused recreational drugs and drank heavily.

You see all these pro wrAstlers from the WWF and stuff dying off like crazy at young ages. Many which not only used, but abused steroids. However, as I mentioned, they also admittedly were snorting blow, drinking in excess, and popped painkillers rampantly to be able to perform through the tough pains of a physical grind, night in and night out.

True, oral steroids are liver toxic and you need to have constant blood work done before, during, and post-cycle if you really want to be on the safe side.(on any cycle for that matter) IMO, theyr'e no worse than the moderate drinker though. Injectables on the other hand, are actually veryyy easy on the liver.

An intelligent adult who chooses to cycle steroids should not be drinking while on cycle, or ingesting any other recreational drugs. If you can't give up the latter 2, than you should not be juicing. It's not just a cycle, it's a lifestyle man..110% dedication and dicipline.
 
^ Fair enough. The crowd that i hang with are all natural and dont even consider using the roids. So i guess its just the way i was raised.
 
^ Fair enough. The crowd that i hang with are all natural and dont even consider using the roids. So i guess its just the way i was raised.

I completely understand and respect that, as it's your choice and body man. If you don't mind me asking, do you drink at all or use rec. drugs? If not, do you view steroids and rec. drugs in a similiar light? I'm not trying to start somethin personal with u, I'm just curious.

I 100% understand and respect those who claim to be anti-steroid because of moral reasons, and those who want to keep their bodies free of ANY drug. However those in this thread who get up and preach about how you should not use steroids because they're so bad for you and all this, and tomorrow night they're out slamming 10 shots of whiskey, smokin a pack of winstons, and burning a big hooter???....:\ just seems a lttle hypocrticial eh?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LEj8IPHGU
 
Last edited:
^ Haha fair enough. I dont smoke and i drink occasionally. Drinking for me consists of a few beers while watching the soccer game. As for rec drugs i havent done them for a few years, i used to do the weed and the ecstasy alot.

Ive never injected before so if i did do steroids, it would be a new one for me.
 
Last edited:
Well, the most serious side-effect on dramatically augmenting your T levels would be an increased risk of prostate-cancer. Obviously there are numerous other side-effects that are more obvious, some of which Sunyata already mentioned, and there are other alarming and obvious side-effects post-cycle (against which mitigation is usually attempted through the use of still more drugs), but the prostate-cancer possibility is likely the most concerning.

Regarding one of the poster's comments who called steroid use a "way of life" and an expression of ethos to put out "110%"... I certainly agree that many of those who use steroids ARE highly disciplined with respect to their workout routines and diet. But I would caution against the belief that to really put forward 110% you need to use steroids. The fact is that augmentation at these levels is simply not well studied, the side-effects not well understood, and the possibility of a dangerous accumulation of negative effects increases with long-term use.

I've been an athlete all my life. I understand, fully, the drive to push harder, faster, farther. But the overall goal here for those using steroids who aren't in professional sports is simply a better level of health, a higher quality of life. There are serious health risks associated with steroid use, and serious legal risks associated with steroid use. These goals may be achieved, in a disciplined way, without steroid use.

Also understand that, when it comes to mood and drive, there is a substantial placebo effect at work in addition to the actual augmentation of aggression by the steroids. A user comes to believe that he needs the steroids to achieve a satisfactory level of fitness and progress, and even that he needs the steroids to maintain drive, strength, and mood. They become, in his scheme, an essential part of his self-esteem. Since steroid users tend already to be prone to various dysmorphic disorders, I think that they are also particularly susceptible to the formation of that kind of belief.

In other words, steroid use may trigger or motivate an already existing tendency towards some type of dysmorphic disorder, or some underlying anxiety about self-esteem. This is more a psychological danger than a physical danger, but the effects on a person's sense of well-being, their ability to appropriately judge the costs and benefits of actions, and so forth, are all quite real, and will have actual physical effects.

I consider the psychological risk here to be a part of the health risks, in short.

So, all in all, in my own opinion, it's simply healthier to stick to a disciplined routine of straight exercise and diet. If you REALLY want to push 110%, and test yourself, then either learn or re-enter athletic competitions, and see how you do. Competition is the ultimate test of one's discipline and mindset.

And look, I just want to emphasize again, since this can be a touchy subject, that I'm talking about the use of steroids as a subject generally. I'm not talking about anyone here in particular, and unless an individual wants to discuss whether he or she, given his specific situation, should be using steroids, I would prefer NOT to have personal experience or stories inserted into the discussion.

In other words, to keep this as free of drama as possible, let's just focus on the subject itself, and stay as far away from criticizing each other as possible.
 
Well, the most serious side-effect on dramatically augmenting your T levels would be an increased risk of prostate-cancer. Obviously there are numerous other side-effects that are more obvious, some of which Sunyata already mentioned, and there are other alarming and obvious side-effects post-cycle (against which mitigation is usually attempted through the use of still more drugs), but the prostate-cancer possibility is likely the most concerning.

Regarding one of the poster's comments who called steroid use a "way of life" and an expression of ethos to put out "110%"... I certainly agree that many of those who use steroids ARE highly disciplined with respect to their workout routines and diet. But I would caution against the belief that to really put forward 110% you need to use steroids. The fact is that augmentation at these levels is simply not well studied, the side-effects not well understood, and the possibility of a dangerous accumulation of negative effects increases with long-term use.

I've been an athlete all my life. I understand, fully, the drive to push harder, faster, farther. But the overall goal here for those using steroids who aren't in professional sports is simply a better level of health, a higher quality of life. There are serious health risks associated with steroid use, and serious legal risks associated with steroid use. These goals may be achieved, in a disciplined way, without steroid use.

Also understand that, when it comes to mood and drive, there is a substantial placebo effect at work in addition to the actual augmentation of aggression by the steroids. A user comes to believe that he needs the steroids to achieve a satisfactory level of fitness and progress, and even that he needs the steroids to maintain drive, strength, and mood. They become, in his scheme, an essential part of his self-esteem. Since steroid users tend already to be prone to various dysmorphic disorders, I think that they are also particularly susceptible to the formation of that kind of belief.

In other words, steroid use may trigger or motivate an already existing tendency towards some type of dysmorphic disorder, or some underlying anxiety about self-esteem. This is more a psychological danger than a physical danger, but the effects on a person's sense of well-being, their ability to appropriately judge the costs and benefits of actions, and so forth, are all quite real, and will have actual physical effects.

I consider the psychological risk here to be a part of the health risks, in short.

So, all in all, in my own opinion, it's simply healthier to stick to a disciplined routine of straight exercise and diet. If you REALLY want to push 110%, and test yourself, then either learn or re-enter athletic competitions, and see how you do. Competition is the ultimate test of one's discipline and mindset.

And look, I just want to emphasize again, since this can be a touchy subject, that I'm talking about the use of steroids as a subject generally. I'm not talking about anyone here in particular, and unless an individual wants to discuss whether he or she, given his specific situation, should be using steroids, I would prefer NOT to have personal experience or stories inserted into the discussion.

In other words, to keep this as free of drama as possible, let's just focus on the subject itself, and stay as far away from criticizing each other as possible.


Noo I didn't mean that in order to give 110%, you need to take steroids. Misunderstanding. People that use steroids responsibly already give a 110% effort in dieting, workouts, sleep, etc. and steroids are just the cherry on top.

If you're going to use them, I think that's how it should be. Not still divulging in old habbits; partying, eating junk food, smoking while on=cycle. DUMB
 
I don't really understand the mentality that attacks people for using steroids. I guess it comes from insecurity about your own gains? These kind of people hate to see other people flourishing at an activity they are struggling at. Its so much wasted energy though. Its not like any of us are competing against each other in bodybuilding competitions (and if we are and we're not in an explicitly drug-free league then you can bet we're both injecting test).

Before I ever contemplated running a cycle to help my own weight gain (which started out two years ago drastically underweight and with serious problems as a result of extended periods of fasting/tripping for days and days and weeks on end) I never thought to hate on those who run cycles. I just didn't care at all what those people did. It didn't affect me in ANY way so why would I have such an emotional violent reaction to the thought they are shooting test into the muscles? Again, I just don't get some people.

Portillo, you talk about how you were raised, and that you are drug-free now because of that. Well, I was raised to live according to a very simple saying: live and let live.

Its simply powerful way to frame your life.
 
Maybe the ones who use steroids are the ones that are insecure... ;) I admit the idea of gaining big muscles on steroids is tempting. But at the same time im very comfortable in my gains as a natural.

I read an article about steroids and how not using them can be a positive thing. Such as staying out of any legal trouble, saving money, keeping the majority of your gains, and staying healthy. The loss of gains after you come off can be depressing, as you see your superhuman physique wither away day by day and losing strength and sex drive.
 
Last edited:
It didn't affect me in ANY way so why would I have such an emotional violent reaction to the thought they are shooting test into the muscles? Again, I just don't get some people.

I hope your not refering to me when you say that, because the only emotional violent reaction came from you.

I don't have to prove myself to you or anybody else. But thanks for trying to pressure me into showing a picture of my body on the internet.
[edited: No name calling and insults here. ]

I'm also done here trying to help explain things in an understandable way to those who obviously are operating under gross miconceptions, if you should continue to attack me personally. I am more than willing to help impart some knowledge to anybody who is interested but I will not deal with bullshit from punks hiding behind their keyboard.
 
But I would caution against the belief that to really put forward 110% you need to use steroids.

Nobody said this.

He said using steroids requires giving 100%. He did NOT say giving 110% requires using steroids.

If you simply misuderstood him, that is fine, it happens to all of us.

But many people on this site (and elsewhere) actually don't understand the notion of the converse of a statement, and that the converse does not follow logically from a statement.
 
I am going to speak on behalf of sunyata here, because I would be very frustrated if I were him, so I certainly understand why he is.

He is giving very specific detailed point by point explanations to support his argument. He seems to have done a lot of research, and he seems to know what he is talking about.

Yet, people are responding to him with hackneyed clichés, vague generalizations, logical fallacies, and misinformation.

That is very frustrating to deal with. No one has really refuted any of his specific points, or even tried, for that matter. It's the same kind of frustrating stuff I have tried to deal with in the speeding thread I created in Second Opinion.

If you disagree with what he is saying, refute his points using information, research, and sound logic. If you are not able to do so, it is okay to say, "Well Sunyata, I always heard that Steroids are bad for you no matter what, but I don't really have enough knowledge or facts to dispute what you are saying, so I'll have to get back to you."
 
Fjones, sunyata can take care of himself. And yes he has given information on his behalf. But for a bodybuilder the subject of steroids is important and sensitive. My arguments came from hardgainer.com's Stuart Mcrobert, one of the most respected writers in strength training, and from Ironman magazine, which i buy monthly.

He has convinced me that steroids can be taken healthily and can be no more dangerous than any other drug. In fact, if i had a "steroid dealer", id buy some... :)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top