Open Discussion Stamp Thread in the North & South American Social & Drug Discussion Section

[Tommyboy]

Heres the thing. A lot of people sniff dope. I was a sniffer when I used it, and it is very hard to test it that way. It took very long to peak in me, and sometimes I would get too high due to that.

I would sniff a half bag at a time, and my average dose was 3 bags. Even giving 30 minute spaces in between, sometimes 2 bags would have me breathing shallow, then making myself throw up.

So I don't see how this would be bad for someone else that sniffs cautiously to know if it is strong. If the thread was only about the strong dangerous stamps, then nobody would check it out. We already tried that. Part of harm reduction is for us to keep some good traffic coming through here so we can help as many ppl as possible. People are more attracted to rating it 1-10. Like how they are doing it in the UK heroin thread, so people may have a chance when they actually get good stuff, since they have the drought.

 

[senatorslobberchop]

For anyone actually involved in "the game", the facts are simple:

1. People expecting a rush will never do a test shot
2. The rules of the free market will make fake or low quality bags disappear and informed consumers are the basis to a strong free market
3. Fiends will never try to maximize their rush at the expense of their life upon learning of a bag's alleged quality
4. That same information is available elsewhere (friends, other sites, etc.)

People will always seek to maximize pleasure and that is achieved through frugal use of their money which means buying the best dope; additionally, this is the least harmful of the possibilities a junkie will encounter. Pure dope is actually very chemically safe at the proper doses and since those are completely unknown to the user, any information will help them achieve those doses.

Though I have never posted or read on bluelight per se, from a similar site, the knowledge of "super fire" bags has prevented at least 3 overdoses for me, personally, that I can remember.

Conversely, the lack of that site has had me do my normal 7 bag shot of a nearly pure stamp (hint on the name: we're fighting a war there) and overdose to the point of temporary death.

Also, I would like to add, that I purchased a stamp that was not rated on the rival site I mentioned and it turned out to be MDMA powder (or something of the like) and nearly killed me due to its stimulant effects; if it had been rated, I would have known that it wasn't even close to the same drug I had been used to buying.

I can understand if the mods don't want responsibility for people potentially getting hurt, but:

1. If you aren't in the game, you can't understand what it's like and your opinion, though authoritative, is mere speculation
2. The people that could be hurt by it, want the information because they believe it will be personally helpful to them
3. You're right, it is interesting to read (I'm clean and just like to read the stories now) and that alone should warrant this threads existence.

 

[amapola]

^Thanks for joining up to voice your opinion senatorslobberchop It was very well made.

I think the argument is well summed up in the last several posts.
-Ideally everyone would test their dope and there would be no need to ever have a thread like this, but that won't happen.
-To remove any chance of harm a 'warning' thread only would work, but it is uninteresting and nobody contributes.
-Bluelight stands for freely disseminated information and at it's core this is merely information to be used as people will.

So the question is do we want to be a source of information which will help people or hurt people solely on the odds that the bag they have in their hands in the same bag that they are reading about online?

 

[alasdairm]

But different potency is the main problem, and it can be easier to tell here since it is branded

but, again, the brand on the bag is meaningless because you can not be sure that the product in one bag is teh same as the product in another bag wih the same stamp. sure, you can make an educated guess and assume they are the same but, nonetheless, you are just guessing...

i think harm-reduction should be built on something a little more solid than guessing.

It can be reproduced, it has been reproduced, it will be reproduced, but almost always it's not.

almost always? can you tell me how you even begin to measure something like that?

again, you're making vague, unsubstantiated claims. i don't think it's too much to ask us to base our work on a more solid foundation than this.

alasdair

 

[Bricks & Stacks]

almost always? can you tell me how you even begin to measure something like that?

I keep askin is it not the same as ex pills? Ex pills are copied, maybe it's not real common for the well known ones but it absolutely happens. Is that not the same form of educated guessing? It's not like they're reviewing OC 80's and talking about which pharmacy is better, ex pills are sold on the black market just like dope which means it could be anything in the pill you buy, but the board sees pill reporting as harm-reduction. If there were no talk of pill brands on here I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this arguement but I just don't see how one is harm reduction and the other is not?

 

[Pegasus]

The people that use stamped bags seem to pretty much be in agreement here. In practice, the thread seems to have worked pretty well...

 

[Tommyboy]

but, again, the brand on the bag is meaningless because you can not be sure that the product in one bag is teh same as the product in another bag wih the same stamp. sure, you can make an educated guess and assume they are the same but, nonetheless, you are just guessing...

i think harm-reduction should be built on something a little more solid than guessing.
almost always? can you tell me how you even begin to measure something like that?

again, you're making vague, unsubstantiated claims. i don't think it's too much to ask us to base our work on a more solid foundation than this.

alasdair

I am not just saying this because I am "for" the stamp thread, but I have never got a stamp that was more than 1 point + or - what it was rated on these boards. Now I am in NY which may be more consistent, but I have never gotten bags rated here as a 5, and then thought they were a 7 or so. It was ALWAYS damn close for me. There's more duplicate pills in NY than stamp bags IME.

 

[alasdairm]

fair enough. i'm just one opinion.

i think that encouraging people to believe that there's any reliable connection between the stamp on a bag and the contents of said bag goes against the principle of harm reduction.

like i say, it's just one opinion.

alasdair

 

[Bricks & Stacks]

^Haha i've said it like 8 times, but is it not the same thing as giving people reports on ex pills?

 

[amapola]

I don't think it is the same thing.
-it is harder to imitate pills than stamp bags
-you are less likely to die from eating pills than injecting heroin
-people taking pills are often in a different "safer" mindset then people needing a fix
-heroin users always have the option of just testing with a bit of their drug regardless of test kits

 

[Bricks & Stacks]

I don't think it is the same thing.
-it is harder to imitate pills than stamp bags
-you are less likely to die from eating pills than injecting heroin
-people taking pills are often in a different "safer" mindset then people needing a fix
-heroin users always have the option of just testing with a bit of their drug regardless of test kits

I'm not trying to be all arguementive and shit so I hope I don't come off wrong but...

Stamps are not that easy to reproduce, you would have to have a decent amount of money to put into it, and if you had a decent ammount of money you could buy a pill press just as easy. There is absolutely no way to be sure that's all I'm saying. And I guarantee you that the ex market isn't as heavily regulated by the higher ups as dope is. You just don't understand the heroin market. It is not common practice for stamps to be copied and then filled with some shit that's not dope.

And "less likely" to die? There's still a chance you could. I mean like alas was saying about stamps applies to pills, it's no better then an educated guess. Sure not as many people die poppin pills as shooting dope, but they do die.

People being in a safer mindset is bullshit in my opinion because not everybody that buys dope is a strung out junkie in withdrawl and I'd rather buy my dope standin in my dudes kitchen then in a dark ass club where you probably pop the pill right there.

And as far as testing, at least pill users have the option of testing their pills. There is no way we can test it, without risking harm to ourselves. Even if it's a 1/4th of a bag, what if it's fent and the shooter has no tolerance and they die? They woulda known maybe there was a chance it was fent if somebody had already tried it. Even the newspapers list dangerous stamps sometimes. When that Get High Or Die Trying was around Pittsburgh it was on every news channel, was it replicated? No and it was a stamp everybody was tryin to get

 

[alasdairm]

^Haha i've said it like 8 times, but is it not the same thing as giving people reports on ex pills?

i do agree, to some extent with amapola but my opinion applies consistently to pills as well.

i.e. i think that encouraging people to believe that there's any reliable connection between the logo on a pill and the contents of said pill goes against the principle of harm reduction.

as i've said, just one opinion.

alasdair

 

[phr]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=493280
Why it was closed in DC. A deeper search will most likely provide more information



1. Ratings may be helpful, but ultimately the best advice is you have to test it out yourself. Period.
Yes, stamps may be consistent, but there is no guarantee. There is no governing body making sure standards are set and met. There is no accountability. For fucks sake, you're dealing with an illicit black market product that risks your life whenever you take it.

2. The ratings can be rather subjective. No one is really assessing things quantitatively and qualitatively. Tolerance -built, natural, and environmental can be factors. As can the roa, whether it was a clean shot, other drugs you take, the cut, etc.

3. It led to sourcing and dealing. There's no way we can have a stamp thread and eliminate that risk.

So, it puts the site at risk through sourcing/dealing and we don't think it's a very good HR idea.

 

[amapola]

Stamps are not that easy to reproduce, you would have to have a decent amount of money to put into it, and if you had a decent ammount of money you could buy a pill press just as easy.

You get some stamp bags. Take out half of the contents of each one or so for personal use or selling in a different format or whatever. Replace the half you used with some other adulterant. Close them back up and sell them or otherwise distribute them.

 

[Tommyboy]

You get some stamp bags. Take out half of the contents of each one or so for personal use or selling in a different format or whatever. Replace the half you used with some other adulterant. Close them back up and sell them or otherwise distribute them.

The tape is not easy to get off, actually I have never been able to get it off them. If someone opens it and retapes it, they will have to tape over the old tap, and the person buying will notice this.

 

[Unbreakable]

Most of the time they are glued shut and taped id say something like 80% around Nj

 

[Tommyboy]

^ True, plus the double-sealed in philly and camden is sometimes found in other parts of NJ, and I have gotten heat-sealed in NY a lot when I started.

If someone goes through the trouble of opening up a heat-sealed bag, replacing its contents with crap, and somehow re-heat-sealing it, then idk, effin A.

 

[senatorslobberchop]

Why can't you "just take a little" of your ex pill?

Statistically speaking, I've never encountered more than +-1 standard deviations of quality between bag ratings. That is, unless they're completely fake, in which case, there's probably a warning of this on the site that rated them.

@alasdairm: Everything is a matter of guessing: food quality, driving, waking up alive in the morning. All of these are based on statistics. For example, you are very likely to not die from something you eat, but what about e-coli? There are always deviating factors in anything we do, especially heroin, but for the first time in drug history, we have the internet and for the first time we begin to quantify those deviations between individual samples of a product.

You ask about "measuring"? Since what is being measured is not a quantity (I guess you could weigh them), you are left with a qualitative assessment to be made. A points system quantifies the overall satisfaction of the user and the description section can contain important notes that keep you from dying.

Very simply, every consumer deserves to be educated. We have a right to know (even if we have no complete certainty). Like all things in life, statistics give us confidence in all unknown choices we make. There is no "absolute" connection between stamp names and content, but there is a principal connection at the core of the concept of naming stamps in the first place as well as there is a quantitative connection based the collective prior observations of large amounts of people that are connected and able to disseminate that information. Competition and your own users dictate that they want to be educated and other places offer that education. The question is: do you want your users going elsewhere to get the same information that you could provide better? You have a chance to make a real difference. You talk about "how" to measure matters of dope? Now is your chance to start doing it.

 

[senatorslobberchop]

@phrozen: "For fucks sake, you're dealing with an illicit black market product that risks your life whenever you take it."

That and the fact that there's no authority makes this thread all the more necessary! Again, in our economic system, desire to be optimally fulfilled is the driving force. When you educate consumers, they control the market by ensuring that only the strongest products survive. YOur readers can become that authority.

When you take away that information, you hurt those consumers by taking away any authority, advantage, and statistical safety they've had.

Any time an authority figure steps in and makes policy without actually having been in the situation, you're left with a truly uneducated guess as to harm reduction. Maybe take a note from the people that have been there about what they think is best for THEM.

It surely can't be harm reduction because it makes no sense that the information provided will be bad and would make people change their long-habitual behaviour for the worse just because they read unsubstantiated claims on the internet.

Again, when I was in the game, that ratings thread only served to warn me of strong/fake bags. A few time it literally saved my life. When it got shut down, I almost died a few times so forgive me if this argument is a little personal. I sincerely don't believe you think this is counter-intuitive to harm reduction, so please tell us the real reason.

Also, ROA, years using, tolerance, average bag dose (of [x] quality bag), etc provided in each user's rating help equalize the variables. We need to give junkies more credit; they know how to stay alive and aren't going to drastically alter their behaviour in a dangerous way because of something they read.

But I can't argue with your opinion that's it's not good HR for your vast, non-heroin drug site (sometimes heroin) to be partially affiliated with heroin; that's your call. Since you've completely eliminated sourcing/dealing on your other sites that provide 100% accurate information, you should deny that same information to the portion of your audience that is most at risk from the dangers of not having said information.

Also, people who aren't interested in the topic of rating bags, won't read that section. So if they do read it, they were either:
a. not bothered by it
b. found it interesting/useful

 

[Tommyboy]

And as far as people having different tolerances etc... The thread had a spot where you put you ROA, years of use, and if you were on subs or done.

I agree with both of senatorslobberchops posts. edit: and apparently posted the same thing as him.

@phrozen. What about having it in a different thread where posts need to be approved, like in legal discussion. That keeps sourcing away for the most part.