st. johns wort and mdma

[Sweetbeefaerie]

I've been taking st. johns wort on and off this year, usually taking it consistently every day for a month and then weaning myself off until the depression pokes it's stupid head back up and I have to start taking it again. My dad passed away this year, so I'm pretty messed up in the head and just trying to keep myself above water honestly.

My 3 year anniversary is coming up on the 25th of this month (October), and we were gifted some mdma that we would love to take on that day. The problem is that I'm not sure how st. johns wort builds up in your system, and I'm aware that it's said to be a dangerous combination and I would like to have myself safely weaned off of it before my anniversary. I want to be sure that I'm absolutely safe to take the mdma. I've been taking it consistently for maybe two months now or a little more. It's been keeping me stable and lighthearted, so that's another thing I'm very nervous about with weaning myself off of it :/ My dose has been three 300mg capsules a day. If anyone can help me sort this out it would be much appreciated thanks guys

 

[hotgirls.jpg.exe]

St John's Wort is an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) so it basically prevents the breakdown of the monoamine neurotransmitters (serotonin, noradrenaline, dopamine) by inhibiting the action of the enzymes responsible. MDMA is a triple releaser of these neurotransmitters as well as having reuptake inhibition so combining the two, you've got a situation of massive amounts of these chemicals being dumped into your system, not being reabsorbed and not being broken down. When you're talking about serotonin, it's dangerous combination, one that can easily cause serotonin syndrome. It's not a position you want to put yourself in.

With an MAOI you need a two week washout (not taking any of it) period before you consider taking anything else that can affect these transmitters or receptors, and that includes MDMA. So if you wanted to take MDMA on the 25th you would need to stop the St John's Wort altogether (not taper or wean, stop completely) pretty much right now - however if you've been finding it to have therapeutic benefit you may well notice that stopping it, especially suddenly, has some negative effects. Honestly if I were you, given what you've described, I would be very seriously considering if it's worth the possible negative effects. MDMA comedowns can be brutal enough as it is if you're otherwise fine, let alone with the kind of shit you're dealing with. Be safe

 

[Black]

St John's Wort is an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor)

this has been disproven. afair it being an maoi dates back to the time when we thought that the active ingredient was hypericin (which rather is the component that just causes the photodermatitis). now we know that hyperforin is the active principle and it is a (non-selective) neurotransmitter reuptake inhibitor.

still it's not an ssri and since the mechanism of action is a bit peculiar i wouldn't combine it with mdma. but a 2 week washout (which btw is only necessary if you're talking about irreversible maois. for the reversible maoi moclobemide 24h is sufficient) is not necessary.
so if you want to be cautious you could leave 4 times the maximal half-life of hyperforin between stopping st. john's wort and and taking mdma. that'd be around 80 hours or 3 and a half days.

 

[Sweetbeefaerie]

this is really helpful so far, thank you to both of you. I love the meticulous information I get on here