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Speak Your Mind on the OD Rules

sixpartseven said:
So, how do you suggest we find a middle ground?
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You stay morally neutral about it and provide pure, unbiased factual information. Starting by outling the range of possible harms (which in the case of IV sub is pretty extensive) then the techniques to reduce the harm, explaining the limitations of each.

The end product doesn't promote the practice in any way, it just describes the facts. When this is done well, the facts alone can be enough to prevent someone from doing something.

The Bluelight mission statement says it all.
 
sixpartseven said:
So, how do you suggest we find a middle ground? Im not trying to be an asshole asking this, Its a serious question. Do you have any ideas of a way to do it? Can a middle ground be found, even?

I completely agree with GM, in that I dont like the idea of promoting or supporting people who abuse such valuable programs, but I also realize that in a way I do agree with you after reading the BL Mission Statement again.

What would be the best way to go about this?
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Personally, I don't think there is a middle ground on this issue. I think one thing is contradictory to the other. That seems a pretty glum state of affairs, but I think we are confusing the issue...
ccm said:
So the BL staff has to choose between:
The desire to reduce abuse of tx programs OR
The desire to provide impartial information on how to abuse said tx programs.

Take a stand one way or the other. I believe that the "shoot sub" information is here on this very site, already.

Here is the difference: the tx programs are a matter of life and death for many, myself included (Yes, I am biased).

The "shoot Sub" discussion is about getting high.
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I've read through the past few threads with "Suboxone" in the title that were closed. I understand your point of view, but I think you are again confusing the issue with a political perspective. You offer a false dichotomy between:

"The desire to reduce abuse of tx programs OR
The desire to provide impartial information on how to abuse said tx programs."

I think the second option is incorrect. The provision of impartial information is about allowing free discussion around an unsafe practice that has been going on for years and will probably continue to go on for as long as bupe is prescribed in treatment programmes. It may be the case that free discussion could result in information being used to take such a prescribed medicine in a way that was not intended by the prescriber (thus, abusing or taking advantage of a treatment programme). You might even believe that it is almost inevitable that this is the case... but I'm not sure that it is part of our role to pre-determine how dosage/administration/timing information will be used - merely to provide the safest information impartially.

We're certainly not here to help someone abuse a treatment programme, so advice on what to say to a clinician, how to maximise your prescription, pricing, etc would be completely inappropriate, I agree. But I don't believe we should cut ourselves off from a particular subject (and consequently a discussion on safety) because of the political impact it may have on treatment availability.

There is a second element that I feel needs to be raised. Switching between bupe, methadone and a primary opiate is, for some people, a valid method of maintaining a non-chaotic addiction. For some users in the UK, diverted pharmaceuticals are a route to self-medication - sometimes the only way that they feel they can receive treatment (either because of the risk of criminal sanction or for fears of child services becoming involved). This pharmaceutical plate-spinning exercise is, for some, a way of life. For others, it's a way of getting by until they are taken off the waiting list for services. If such people resort to shooting Subutex, I feel we should provide the best info possible... even if it's relatively scant in content.

I would add (and I'm directing this at the OD mods) that I have massive sympathy with your situation - not only from a health professional perspective, but also as a mod. When we opened up discussions regarding the future of EADD, it wasn't always a comfortable experience. I found myself getting slightly irritated by other mods sticking their oar in over issues that - given their relative lack of participation in the forum - I felt they had little understanding of. With that experience in mind, I'm conscious that I don't want to come across as if I know what's best for OD... because I don't. Not a fucking clue. I just have a subjective idea of what feels right for Bluelight.

You guys work OD on a day-to-day basis and will be in a better position than most to gauge how to run the forum... as do your contributing members - irrespective of post counts or join dates.

Again, I think you're doing the right thing by opening it up for discussion. Not many forums do that. Even fewer actually act on what they're told.

<3
 
go back and see how phreex, negro and pdx handled the boards. study/enact. board therefore becomes as amazing as it was 5 years ago again.
 
designed_reality said:
go back and see how phreex, negro and pdx handled the boards. study/enact. board therefore becomes as amazing as it was 5 years ago again.
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They would have banned you. Still want us to handle it like that?
 
^nothing against you guys, this is, after all, a 'new age' and circumstances were different back then, but they did do one hell of a job [phreex & negro]. there is nobody here that can say any different.
 
^ Apparently the board was less known, and wasn't infested by TOTSEans...
They did a great job, sure, but they had less shit to deal with. Its like comparing apples and pneumatic tire gauges.
 
this isn't supposed to be rude at all, so please don't take it as such. i know mods close a good bit of threads, and that's a part of their duty to the community; making sure everything is revelant and follows the rules and guidelines.

however for noobs like me(i wont be the only one!!!), will mods maybe please briefly explain in a post why a thread was closed? even if just to say "rule violation" "irrevelant" "covered, use search engine"....yall do most of the time, but not always, and it helps thick-skulled, drug-induced-brain-damage(d) people like me!!!
 
they wouldn't have banned me, considering i knew phreex and pdx personally, i've gone through quite a few different names on this boards, your audacity as such newcomers is trite and hilarious at best. none of you are doing a bad job, and i have no problem with any of you, but please.

obviously things are not what they were then, but there was quite a bit of repetitive spam and bullshit to a large extent even then. proudly on the other hand, you had people like morrisons_lament who would induce such great conversation on a constant.

if you're going to change anything, obviously listen to the majority rule, since the readers and posters are the majority, not the mods.

and phreex, negrokitty, pdx, and negrogesic all handled the board wonderfully. there is no denying it, it's proven history. and yes, it was in a different time period.

**edit: it's too bad you guys weren't around when phreex implemented the "no more oxycontin threads" back in...01 or 02 i think. his ability at being on top of any oxy post was unbelievable. the guy had talent.
 
well some of the rules are uptight but the mods @ BL know they need to keep it like that. Sites like The Hive were how-tos on getting shut down and many of its members busted.

from reading some of the hive archives for fun (after watching that MSNBC dateline special) I saw how stupid those SWIMers were. they were openly talking about producing chemicals, bragging about their shit, and opening talking about how to break the law. they thought by using SWIM instead of 'i' they were immune. I read somewhere that the hive was where 'swim' was first used.


This is 2008, and back in the late 90s and very early 2000s everyone knew the government was eventuall going to tap in on the internet and regulate/track it as best they could. BL has to create and enforce these rules to make sure they arent liable for anything illegal and especially dont get shut down. this is a huge, successful site remember
 
i just wanted to chime in and say i think you guys [mods] are doing a great job. like i told johannes, you guys are setting a standard for thread quality when you close threads that aren't suitable or acceptable. this is exactly what we need. set the bar high and the quality will follow.

let's bring back the days of a clean & knowledgable OD forum. the grandeur that was once OD is still something we can achieve.
 
GenericMind said:
Maybe we could allow a single Safer Subs injection FAQ thread.
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Yep I'd be well happy with that. In fact, there's probably scope for a general pill injecting FAQ.

Sixpartseven has apparently written a shooting subs FAQ - but I can't find it. Link maybe?
 
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