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Spasms and twitches 1 month after really strong MDMA crystals

you are right cope, probably the best thing to do is to go sober and to train a lot. today i swam almost 2 hours and now doing crunches. avoiding alcohol at all and struggling to avoid also weed, did not smoke since yesterday afternoon.
by the way last night i slept well, just a couple of tics...let's hope tonight will be the same or better.
thanks for the support mates!
 
Major thanks to RageFace for the support.
Back then my self-esteem benefited greatly by helping others, but it can be more difficult to feel pride now.

Cannabis is a very poor decision during recovery.
I have repeatedly written about the 'confounding factor' of cannabis in MDMA research.
It is much more than a complication.

Several researchers have noted that the long-term smokers were more likely to experience severe psychological suffering post MDMA.

For myself, this is certainly relevant.
I have no doubt that nearly a decade of smoking weed played a BIG role in eventually experiencing near-lethal serotonin syndrome and brain damage. I wish I had known...

For this reason alone, it makes sense to avoid cannabis during the 're-wiring' of the brain.
In the first few months of recovery I handled weed just fine, although it was strange. The first month was the most like the old days.
But as time passed smoking became more and more 'strange'.

By month three and four I was having true panic attacks - SIMPLY because of smoking.
They were intense and horrible, and I was certain that 'neurons were dying'.
This is probably true due to excitotoxicity, but the bigger problem is that the cannabinoid and serotonin system interact.
When you smoke weed it activates your digestive tract, eventually leading to munchies.
Well the contractions that happen in the GI cause a sudden increase in 'serotonin activity' in the brain.

In other words, the horrible ongoing 're-wiring process' of the brain-gut circuitry (serotonin) is SPED up immensely by smoking weed.
'Recovery' is actually a type of ongoing 'damage' to the higher brain functions.

Do you want this damage to happen slowly or do you want to feel it happen in bursts?

Over time I came to believe that the 'brain damage' that smoking weed was causing was going to happen anyways.
I stopped regretting my decision to smoke so much and accepted the fact that I had simply made it a LOT harder on myself.
There was that one time during month six that my whole right arm went NUMB right after getting stoned.
This was a stroke, or TIA.

Caused by cannabis.

Was it going to happen anyway?
Probably.
A more serious incident happened at month 8 from a high garlic dinner!
Terrifying to feel a whole limb go dead in a single moment.
It came back to life, but it was the most intense pins and needles I have ever felt.

After that, it didn't happen again.

I doubt you are in for the intense experience I have had.
But the point is that weed is NOT a part of your life anymore.
It might actually cause damage on its own.

Did you know that long-term smoking alters the shape and size of the prefrontal cortex?
And this is also the region of greatest vulnerability from MDMA neurotoxicity?

Whether or not you can enjoy hash or weed now doesn't matter.
In a few months you may realize that being high is NOT FUN anymore.
And it might just be a hellish experience.

If you choose to risk it anyways, I highly HIGHLY recommend you smoke one or two hits at a time.
My very worst panic attacks happened because I was taking multiple puffs like I used to.
Once I learned to puff twice and STOP I was able to predict and control the anxiety.
And then I learned that even a single puff would lead to feeling very uncomfortable.

If I smoke weed now, after a year and ten months, it is still risky.
It better be after days of hard exercise.
And smoking two days in a row carries a high risk of 'psychosis'.

Oddly after the psychosis subsides, I feel 'normal' for an entire day...
It is like my higher brain functions realign temporarily.
Very strange.
I wish I knew the mechanisms at play...

Your journey is just beginning.
The odds are in your favor.

But do not plan on rolling for at least a year.
Some of the negative effects of MDMA 'recovery' or 're-wiring' or 'damage' do not appear until about the one year mark.
Let that be your goal.
 
I should add that I felt tempted to roll again many times in the first several months.
I don't know why, but I had the sense that it would somehow restore me to normal brain chemistry.
And there is probably some truth to this - a large release of serotonin could have temporarily improved the balance of dopamine.

It was almost like I craved it for it serotonin releasing effects.
I kept imagining the day that I would be able to roll again, because that would mean I would feel normal again.
As the months wore on I slowly let go of the idea, eventually deciding that two years of complete abstinence is the minimum I should require.
And now as I look at the two year mark looming ahead I find myself very hesitant to try again.

I wonder if I will ever roll again.
For now, there is no rush.
Whats another two years anyways?
 
Hello FBC

Good to hear you as always.

Interesting point you make about rolling again as I have had two long comedowns.

The first one only lasted for six months. The symptoms were mainly anxiety driven, feeling empty and just general unmotivated towards myself and all my interests.

Whilst I was on that come down I never researched it at all I never really gave it much thought but after about month six I did actually take a small amount of MDMA and almost two days after doing that the increased heart beat from anxiety vanished and I started to sleep again.

It was actually as you describe a cure. The initial comedown was caused from a BZP/MDMA combo

Unfortunately the memoryof this came into play during my second comedown two years later triggered from exactly the same thing MDMA/BZP combo. After two months I decided to try the MDMA as a cure again. What a big mistake that was!! Went from a mild long term comedown to full on memory loss, paranoia, panic attacks, derealisation and much worse anxiety.

So my experience on the topic you raise is the small amount of MDMA 6 motnhs in on the first come down did work but the second time it was a poison. The second time I never had any of the positive effects at all it just felt very odd and a bit speedy. One this subsided the increased symptoms started.

Very unpredictable and possibley not worth risk this is my thought anyway.

Hope this real life example provides you with some insight on the topic. Just too unpredictable it seems.

Futura
 
Thanks FBC for the usual detailed and comprehensive input :)

I decided not to roll again, i guess forever...if with 75mg i have a 3 weeks come down it's really not worth it...and i am not even considering that there might be some even more serious damage if i do it again, who knows...

For the cannabis i gave up for now...still some nights I am struggling with these mild tics, and don't want to take benzo so it's kinda hard, but i have to resist, in order not to have sleep problems afterwards.
Indeed after my recovery last year, i used to sleep like a baby, and want to keep it that way.

I have never been a really heavy smoker. Maybe i would not smoke for months and then buy some for a month and smoke a very small joint at night during the week and maybe 2 or 3 (but very small!) joints at night only during the weekend while watching a movie. And the effect has always been the same...my eyes go quite red, i go a bit dumb but actually enjoy it and the day after i am a bit slow but fine. Never had really serious issues after smoking.

I really hope i can continue to smoke occasionally after i fully recover. Will see how it goes.

So you are 2 months from your next probable roll? WOW...may i just give u an humble advice: if u do it, make it be just a test, as i did. I bought .2 and only took .1 (effective maybe it was 75mg). it did not come up well, and u don't know how much I was tempted to take the other half...luckily i did not do it. otherwise i would have been much worse now. If i were in you i would just take a minimum quantity (even 50mg), and do not expect that to be the roll of your life ;) it will be very mild probably as it was mine. But the purpose the first time should just be just to pay attention to the effects during the following days. If everything goes smooth then u might gradually increase the quantity.

that's my 50 cents anyways.

Yesterday i swam 2 hours and did 450 crunches, doing a lot of sport and yoga and taking 5htp (100mg a day), vitamin C and B complex, gingko, and magnesium right now.
Don't know if the dosage of integrators i am taking is fine but i guess the major part will be done by the time passing.

Still have some twitches when falling asleep (some night are better than others) but i hope they will subside soon. I noticed that they happen above all when, after i exhale, sometimes i do not inhale for some time as it should be automatic, i hold the breath...at that point I have a tic and suddenly inhale deeply...that is quite weird :(
Last night i struggled to sleep until 2:30 and slept only 4-5 hours..today i have a really heavy head feeling and feel like if my temples are squeezing, but i guess tonight will sleep better.

Ok dudes, will keep you posted as soon as it is over...i hope I should be very close.

Take care all.
 
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Hi savior,

thanks for the updates.

you are on the right track with the exercise.

best of luck
 
Hello Savior

Second what Cope said thanks for the feedback.

Its really helpful as when other people have similiar problems they can track your progress and it will give others hope.

Sounds to me like you are doing everything right.

Axed the weed. Good work.

Seems like you have reached the end of the line with the MDMA. I am very confident you are making the right choice you are reading the messages your body is telling you.

If only I had done the same. I am paying the price now so bad I promise you.

"if with 75mg i have a 3 weeks come down it's really not worth it"

Just think of these words and when you are next at a rave surrounded by hot girls holding out pills and you feel tempted just think of this bluelight experience and think of these words AGAIN AGAIN and AGAIN.

"if with 75mg i have a 3 weeks come down it's really not worth it"

"if with 75mg i have a 3 weeks come down it's really not worth it"

Well done Savior.

Second long comedown and your heading for recovery.

Keep us posted.

Thanks for the PM by the way.

Futura..
 
Just an update guys...in the last ten days i have had no headache nor pressure on the head during the day and at night spasms and tics went less frequent and less intense, and i thought it was almost over..during the weekend i lowered my guard and had a couple of small joints.

Then on monday i was playing a computer game at night, and that is not very good for my sleep too. In fact i could not sleep until 1 cuz i was a bit excited, and had the usual few small tics. I woke up early and could not sleep anymore so i slept only 4-5 hours.

Last night, maybe because of the lack of sleep, tics were more intense and frequent, and decided to take 3 drops of clonazepam to sleep, i was too nervous. I also am thinking that it might be psychological. It seems that when i think about them i make them come. Today i am not working, hopefully will be able to sleep after lunch a little.

I hate this, i hoped it would last much less, instead i am still here struggling, and it's almost one month of come down, again, like when i took 1 gram and 3 pills.
If i knew this, i would have taken one gram and 3 pills also this time, at least i would have enjoyed the rolling more ( 8( joking, obviously).

Sometimes i am afraid this could not end, and that makes me even more nervous, and probably brings more tics.

Last year the effects subsided completely when i changed my sleeping environment for a week, when i went on holiday to Sardinia. Now on 15 september i will go again, but i hope the effects will subside before that date honestly.

Thanks as always for the support guys and take care.

Savior
 
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Hello Savior

Great to hear from you. Also a massive thanks for the update. So many people silently view these forums and these updates are really important to share with people recovery is totally possible it just takes time.

Listening to what happened sounds like things were getting better slowly but surely and the weed triggered some further anxiety.

I hear this story time and time again. If you are suffering from MDMA related long term come down AVOID WEED.

Avoid all other drugs obviousley.

Seems to me the message is clear for you. Once you are out of this hell hole then might be time for you and Miss Mandy to part ways.

I think that last dose for you was say goodbye time.

Seems that some people are more prone to the effects of MDMA than others. I personally think it relates to the P450 enzymes.

Whilst I have been researching my condition these enzymes vary massively depending on your genetic makeup. If there is any weak trait in them MDMA can have a very negative effect. one big issue with MDMA and these enzymes is as well as being metabolized by them (ie broken down) it also inhibits them so effectively inhibits break down of itself.

If you fancie the read anytime here is my research folder for comedown enzyme related stuff. I keep adding to it as I find more information.

http://www.4shared.com/folder/s3K-05dx/MDMA_BZP_Research.html

Sometimes i am afraid this could not end, and that makes me even more nervous, and probably brings more tics.
Click to expand...

Its going to end but its just going to take time. i know exactly how you feel trust me. Someone on here suggested its like living a "Horror Movie" i thought that was quite a good description.

hang in there mate cheers for the update.

Futura
 
Savior,

Whether or not you choose to smoke weed, you should expect some of the twitches and head-pressure to continue for at least six months.
In more serious cases, head-pressure can persist for a little over a year.
But even in the more serious cases it ALWAYS goes away.

This is because the brain is constantly trying to restore even distribution of blood flow.
It is just how the system works.

Exercise will speed this process - sprouting capillaries more than you would believe.
Even elderly people can increase the size and weight of their brains through regular cardio.
So get to exercising.

And stop smoking weed.
And for God's sake don't smoke SO MUCH.

What are you CRAZY?

I learned to take ONE HIT, maybe TWO and STOP.
It would take half an hour to realize the full effects!

"A couple of small joints...."
I'm face-palming as we speak.

Insomnia is a hall-mark of MDMA brain damage.
Researchers have clearly seen a trend that lasts the first several months.

I remember how little sleep I got in the first three months.
And until month 6 I really didn't get REM sleep at all.
But then all of a sudden, the severe tiredness began.
I mean deep, drowning tiredness - swirling into a bottomless pit of exhaustion.
Especially after meals, like a diabetic.

Welcome to adrenal fatigue.
I believe that is when the brain really starts to change, when cortisol levels finally drop.

As far as P450 enzymes go, Futura may have a point.
However....

Rodent and primate research CLEARLY demonstrates that ALL test subjects are susceptible to severe damage at certain repeated dosages.
Heavy use or repeated doses, especially on subsequent days, likely causes 'lasting reorganization' in the majority of human users.
The belief that somehow certain people can 'binge' on MDMA without damage is simply fiction.

Cannabis was absolutely involved in my susceptibility to damage from MDMA.
And it continues to be a major problem during recovery - to the point that I simply don't even miss it anymore.
One day you may reach that point as well.

You should read a recent post I made concerning Lithium.
It might be worth a try for you.
 
Dear Futura and FBC, thanks for your precious point of views, suggestions and support, extremely appreciated as always.

Last night it was another bad night, i was tempted to take clonazepam but resisted, tortured by tics until 1 or 2 am and finally fell asleep, until 6/7 am.

I will take your advices to the letter, and will give up everything, even alcohol until fully recovered. I just want to get back to being happy when going to bed at night.

I hope it will not be up to six months though...last time it took me one month with 1300mg...now with less than 100mg i hope it will be over soon. The only thing i can think is that that crazy dosage last year lowered my recovery speed, even though one year has passed.

I am excercising everyday and trying to keep a healthy diet. The only thing i removed from last week is vitamin C (1000mg a day), i guess i should reintroduce that.

Futura, I had a look at the P450 enzymes links but seems very, very technical, might give me even more headache ;) i'd rather wait and be a good boy until they go away. Should i need in the future some more detailed info i might read them but hopefully it will not be necessary.

FBC, i searched your last posts but did not find the one about lithium.

Cheers mates, will let u know if i have news that deserve to be mentioned.

savior
 
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savior....do you feel any other seronotonin emotional related simptons like anxiety...mild depression..paranoia..tremblin hands, teeths?
 
Found solution ?

Thanks cope, will read the post later :)

Derok, no, i don't have any other serotonin symptoms, why?

By the way last night i found (actually i remembered from last year) a way to dramatically decrease if not eliminate completely the tics/spasms.

It's a relaxation method i had read when i had insomnia problems.

Basically i just lay down and breath in deeply. While breathing out I relax all the muscles of the face and head and try to abandon my head and feel it as "sinking" the pillow. Even when we think we are totally relaxed, we still have many tensions on our face, in our mouth, etc...
Then with another breath out i relax shoulders and neck...then arms (one by one at the beginning), then lower back and finally legs.
When you get more practice you can do more parts in a breath, speeding up the process.

This way I reduced dramatically, almost eliminated the tics (even though being busy concentrating about this excercise i could not fall asleep :( need to optimize and kinda automatize the process)

I think if this works well, also the recovery should be much faster, because having less tics, removes the anxiety and tics should be less that way, it becomes a virtuos circle.

The only problem is that when i change position, i have to do it again, and i change position MANY times, but it only takes a couple of minutes now.

I hope i will be able to confirm that this works, and i hope that if someone has the same symptoms can get some help from it.

Cheers mates, have a nice day.
 
first bad comedowns bro u gotta lot of nerve sendin brain dead newbs to me for advice, iaint even munched a bean for MONTHS.
Click to expand...

Seems a bit harsh.

If you are referring to a reference in one of his posts why dont you just PM him. I am sure he will edit it for you.
 
Reading this thread spreading over the course of an entire year fascinates me. It astonishes me that there are so many people out there experiencing these overlapping symptoms, yet so little is known about why the happen or how to get rid of them aside from abstinence. Talking about my experience is still difficult. Here's my original post:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...t-roll-anyone-out-there?p=9927372#post9927372

Over a year later I am still experiencing negative side effects. My symptoms have changed so much, I can't keep track of how I feel anymore. But I certainly have not recovered. What always remains is the constant buzzing, crawling, pins and needles, tingling, bothersome, burning, itching, indescribable sensation I feel on my scalp almost all day, everyday. If my brain is rewiring, it isn't manifesting itself in any form of physical relief. Though my physical symptoms remain, my mood seems to be what is in the most flux. Sometimes I go through an extremely anxious week, and my symptoms seem to get aggravated (or maybe it's the other way around? who knows?). Those are the times I usually end up back on bluelight forums. Other times, I'm too busy to worry about it and thus the pins and needles aren't as bothersome. Nevertheless, the sensation is always there and it has been for 15 months.
 
What symptoms have you got right now confetti?

Have you taken any drugs since this incident?

Looks like you were taking some mamouth doses what was the actual trigger was it just a large dose?

What supps / meds have you tried what sort of effect did these all have?
 
From the beginning of my experimentation with MDMA until the end, I had little idea what I was doing, what repercussions I was going to face, how the drug was reacting with my system, or how much to even dose. Now I consider myself pretty knowledgeable, having read up on hundreds of articles pertaining to the drug from all angles in the wake of my endless comedown. Having reflected upon my ecstasy (ab)use, I have put together a list of every time I ever used and how much. The dates are precise as I have always used MDMA in conjunction with a special occasion. I have included the method of ingestion. The doses are not exact, but I believe they are more educated guesses than I originally speculated, having looked over many articles, talking with friends (my intake was usually dependent on whatever my friends were advising me to do), etc. They are subsequently lower than I originally guessed, but this is a result of my personal lack of knowledge on dosing rather than an attempt to redeem or lie to myself about what I was putting in my body. Only my last use on May 6 was I (what I personally construe to be) irresponsible in my dosing.

1. April 17, 2010 – 80 mg, gummed
2. May 15, 2010 – 100, capsule
3. July 15, 2010 – 80, pill
4. August 12, 2010 – 150, capsule
5. October 30, 2010 – 150, pill
6. January 12, 2011 – 100, bombs
7. March 5, 2011 – 200, bombs
8. March 17, 2011 – 200, bombs
9. April 9, 2011 – 200, bombs
10. May 6, 2011 – 400, bombs

On this day, I spaced several bombs throughout the night, splitting a gram between two other friends. The night itself was like any other night. The only thing I remember being different, as I have described in past reports to FBC, is that I had a heightened sense of awareness e.g. I was without the utter loss of inhibition that is so characteristic of the drug. I went to bed after my night out at around 6 AM. When I woke up, I experienced the standard morning-after symptoms. It wasn't until the following day that I noticed the “head pressure.”

Essentially what I've experienced over the last fifteen months is an ongoing sensation on my scalp of crawling, burning, pins&needles, etc., what is referred to as parasthesia, and is a hallmark sign of neurotoxicity from what I gather. Thought I have read many reports on blue light including many on “head pressures” and “brain zaps,” I have never actually found anything that seems to speak true to me as far as what people describe. Though reading about people's experiences with MDMA abuse and prolonged comedowns provides me with some consolation that there are others out there dealing with related problems, it still makes me think that there really is no one who has undergone what I am experiencing now. That isn't to say that people haven't had much worse after effects. Quite the contrary I have always been so thankful that my mental acumen seems to be entirely unscathed. My mind has been as active as ever with the exception of the bothersome anxiety that comes with a constant feeling of chills along one's scalp.

Back to the symptoms. They are almost entirely centralized at the top of my scalp, but do occasionally spread throughout my arms and legs in the form of a burning sensation. Indeed I do seem to have some interrelated form of restless leg syndrome, as the friction of fabric on my knees (e.g. pants) creates an extremely uncomfortable sensation. There does seem to be some element of “pressure” in this regard. For instance, one of the most peculiar elements of my situation is that if I were to where a hat and shorts, I would never notice my symptoms even exist. While friction against my legs seems to spark my RLS like symptoms, friction against my head makes the crawling sensation disappear. I know this sounds bizarre, but such is my situation. Furthermore, there does seem to be some circulatory element to the damage as I have noticed that my limbs fall asleep much quicker than they did before the incident.

Whatever is going on with my nervous and circulatory system, there seems to be no apparent end. No tapering. No signs of improvement. Sure I have good days and bad days, and sometimes good weeks (and bad weeks), but not once have I had an extended relief from the pins and needles sensation which are with me from the moment I wake up until I go to sleep at night (please not that I have had no disturbances in my sleep patterns or digestion for that matter which seems more typical of other people's cases). If FBC is right and these symptoms do eventually dissipate, it most happen in some magical disappearing act, seeing as at month 15 I am still experiencing no relief.

I have tried every supplement on the shelf to no avail. The only ones I continue to take regularly are fish oil and vitamin C as everything else has seemed increasingly pointless. I do exercise regularly - always have. As far as recreational drugs are concerned, the only other thing I did regularly was smoke weed, but after what happened to me I began to smoke less and less until now where I never smoke (or at least extremely rarely in comparison to my previous habits). I did shrooms once. I even did a very low dose of MDMA (around 80mg) this past April as a one year anniversary, thinking that maybe I could somehow psyche myself out of this funk or reverse the adverse effects. Nothing happened. I feel exactly the same. I've probably been to around four or five different doctors, all of whom have told me I am experiencing some strange side effects of extreme anxiety. I am not an anxious person. Never was before this happened to me. Now my only anxiety is what is caused by my continuous reflection upon my situation.

I don't expect a medical solution or a brilliant explanation from anyone on this forum or from doctors for that matter. I still do though appreciate bluelight as a forum to discuss these sort of things. Venting is therapeutic sometimes, as you can probably tell by this monstrosity of a post. I do pray that this feeling will someday leave me, and am always open to others thoughts and advise.
 
Hello confetti

Thats an interesting story. Wow so you only took MDMA 10 times! How did you feel whilst taking mdma in your recoveryperiod 80mg wired and no empathy i suspect?

I tried doing that and it made things a lot worse for me.

Have you tried lithium? That is a very powerful thing to try.

I hear it can straighten out some peoples issues.

My friend cope is also trying a new antidepressant soon that in many ways mimics the actions of MDMA I am sure he will report back his findings.

I have had one of these comedowns before they do eventually go it just takes a lot of time.

Its just the pain during this time that is so awful.

Just out of interest how old are you? Are you m or f?
 
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