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Soy unhealthy for you?

Mehm said:
umm, proof...evidence? you do realize that entire civilizations have been built on wheat and soy right?
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Some people get very sick when they eat wheat. Those people know this firsthand. Unfortunately, most fake meat products use seitan (pretty much straight wheat protein) to get the stringy, meaty texture. So no fake meat for Ms. notDeja.

Personally, I enjoy a lot of soyfoods. Usually a couple of blocks of tofu a week, easily 4-6 tempeh patties a week, and a couple of litres of soymilk and soy yogurt on top of it all. I've had some man-boobage all my life due to some unfortunate genetics coupled with binge eating up until around a year ago, and have not noticed any significant increase since becoming veg. Hell, since I've lost a fair bit of weight since going veg, I've probably lost a half cup size at least :)

I'd certainly be interested to get bloodwork done to see if my hormone levels are out of whack due to my soy consumption, but I'm honestly not the slightest bit worried about it.
 
On a most rational basis, I simply refuse to accept the opinion of a a handful of today's food-faddists weighed against at least six thousand years of agrarian lifestyle based on things like soy or wheat.

Now, if you have a personal sensitivity, I would understand. But to say things such as soy gives you man-boobs is just absurd, it would necessarily mean that all Asian men have boobs!

I can't wait for the article that that tells me that rice is bad for me 8).
 
White rice is bad for you. Simple carbs and what not ;)

Brown rice however, is brilliant. And agreed on the anti-faddist statement. I'll need to see a LOT more research, with much larger sample groups, before I'll consider changing my diet.
 
Dave said:
Some people get very sick when they eat wheat. Those people know this firsthand. Unfortunately, most fake meat products use seitan (pretty much straight wheat protein) to get the stringy, meaty texture. So no fake meat for Ms. notDeja.
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Some people are allergic to it, so of course it makes them sick, but you cant say that its unhealthy for everyone because some are allergic to it.

Of course something that your allergic to is going to be bad for you :p
 
given that dietary science is in its infancy, I think that the best we can do at this point is eat a wide variety of foods...and try to match caloric intake to activity-level.

ebola
 
"We have already seen that both fats and carbohydrates can be devitalized by processing and refining. This is also true of proteins. Isolated protein powders made from soy, whey, casein, and egg whites are currently popular as basic ingredients in diet beverages and many so-called healthfood products. These proteins are obtained by a high temperature process that over-denatures the proteins to such an extent that they become virtually useless, while increasing nitrates and other carcinogens...Soy protein isolates are high in mineral-blocking phytates and potent cancer-causing and growth-inhibiting enzyme blockers." -Sally Fallon, Nourishing Traditions

I don't know how to evaluate these claims. I will point out though that she is talking about powders, whereas soymilk, tofu , and tempeh are all cultured or more naturally processed. I have seen soy protein isolate in some of the products I get from healthfood stores - cheap veggie burgers, energy bars, and so on.
 
aanallein said:
If it were unhealthy there would be a billion+ people with issues and it would be pretty well known by now. Soy is a ridiculously massive staple for most of the world's dietary needs.
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you really can't look at it from that perspective without examining the entire diet of those people. i mean, a lot of people eating soy are also consuming what we in the western world know as SUPERFOODS on a daily basis. depending on what exactly is being consumed on a weekly basis, people who eat soy as a staple food may also be eating a staple that combats the negative effects.

you also have to consider that some evolution has taken place over the past few thousand years in which people from asia have been eating soy, while western folk haven't even heard of it until recently. there's a chance that the way in which a westerner metabolizes soy is different from the way an easterner metabolizes it. what's good for one person is not always good for the other.

what i do know for certain is that consuming hormones in any capacity is not healthy, and also that ebola has the right idea with the wide variety selection.
 
The page won't let me read the article without subscribing :(

I've began seeing a nutritionist when I was seven years old (lactose intolerant) and I've seen many and had many sessions centered around soy products, and I've never heard that soy is bad. I have, however, heard from random people (people that own health stores or vegan/veg restaraunts) that soy is bad for you because of the hormones or something, but I've just always written it off as people making up their own theories about shit that's not based on any hard evidence (some vegans and health nuts are just kind of crazy :\) since if there WAS something really bad about soy, I feel like I would have heard about it after 14 years of nutritional counseling... and there would be some physical sign about me, since I grew up on soy protein and have pretty much ingested it daily for the past 14 years.

But really, I don't care if there is something in soy that's bad for you. I love soy milk, soy ice cream, soy yogurt, soy everything pretty much, and it's given me the option to eat not-disgusting versions of all the stuff everyone else eats that I can't. It's the easiest way to get those vitamins-- and the only one that doesn't taste horrible (Lactaid is the nastiest shit ever, no thank you!). Besides that, soy is natural, soy beans come from the Earth and have been farmed/eaten/seen as essential nutrients by the Chinese since like BC.... so I don't think that they can really be that bad.
 
aanallein said:
If it were unhealthy there would be a billion+ people with issues and it would be pretty well known by now. Soy is a ridiculously massive staple for most of the world's dietary needs.
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There are a billion+ people with alzheimers, cancer etc. Soy has been proven to at least block the absorption of many vitimans and minerals and cause many other health effects. The japanese have a very healthy diet (other than soy of course) and eat alot of fish which is good for the brain, in fact before japan became westernized (mcdonalds and whatnot) it had the lowest rate of lung cancer in the world, and the highest smoking rate per capita in the world at the same time.
 
A lot of people are saying, "well, if a billion plus people eat it, it MUST be good!"

There are a number of things wrong with that logic:

-That billion people may have a healthier diet to counteract the ill effects

-The soy that those people eat is probably much less processed than soy in the modern western world (ever read the ingredients on a Clif Bar?)

-People are allergic to things

-Humanity is in a state of poor health. Considering this, I would actually be LESS likely to follow what everyone else is doing and listen to what my body tells me.

I'm not agreeing with anyone yet, however. I've been told by my chiropractor that soy is bad, but no one else has told me that soy is bad.

My guess is that soy is a good source of vitamins and protein, but for people who are very sensitive to what they eat, they're probably better with other, less processed foods.
 
Jamshyd said:
^ That's exactly what I was thinking. Scientists like to tackle "new fads" but tend to forget history... the Japanese, for example, historically eat about as much soy products as they eat rice - if not more. They live longer than people of most other cultures.

Speaking of phytohormones - are Yams bad for you?
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well it may not affect lifespan but it could affect muscular strength and fat reserves (high estrogen promotes fat deposits)...it may not be FATAL to have higher levels of estrogen but its certainly not helpful to have very high levels (this is why steroid cycles with large amounts of testosterone will include an aromatase inhibitors, such as proviron, which stop the transformation of test into estrogen).
 
yeah edamame rocks!!

I am not sure about soy. I drink soy milk regularly and tofu twice a week. I hardly eat meat at all and the protein has to come from somewhere...
 
Highly processed hydrolyzed soy protein probably isn't great for you. Edamame, tofu, tempeh, and the like are likely fine.

A varied diet is the safest diet though, and soy isn't the be-all-end-all of vegetarian protein. I like it though ;)
 
thujone said:
you really can't look at it from that perspective without examining the entire diet of those people. i mean, a lot of people eating soy are also consuming what we in the western world know as SUPERFOODS on a daily basis. depending on what exactly is being consumed on a weekly basis, people who eat soy as a staple food may also be eating a staple that combats the negative effects.
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Yes, same is true for what scientists have lambasted as "unhealthy" food-- wine, coconut oil, milk, etc.

Taking anything in excess and in industrial-farmed-commodity amounts will definitely result in bad effects. I've read a lot of articles about the whole soy thing and I'm convinced it's just another one of the demonizing and sensationalist episodes of the scientific community. Personally, I consume soy regularly, but not in large amounts, as I find it to be quite astringent.

Of course, there are people who are allergic. I've said this again, but everyone should listen to their own bodies, and try to get a varied as possible diet.

I see a lot of Western vegetarians/vegans as soy-reliant, when there are a lot of good (equally great or better tasting) protein sources. When I go to dinners, often I get a predominantly tofu dish, and I have been guessing that is a function of that phenomenon where the industry with the most research out sells the most stuff. I've found so many kinds of beans in the temperate zones that are underutilized and interesting.
 
Sorry if this was mentioned in the thread - but I think one thing to remember is that soy is (to the best of my knowledge) more easily digested and safe or safer, when it has been fermented - Miso, Natto, Tempeh, etc. - I don't know if whole cultures built themselves on large quantities of unfermented soy such as Tofu.

I can tell you that I avoid soy (excepting small amounts of fermented soy) and feel better for it.

Soy has become an abomination, anyway, most of it at least - unless you're eating certified organic soy, you can be almost certain that it's been genetically modified, grown with horrid chemicals, in a most unsustainable manner, making it even worse for you than it would be otherwise.

Yes, soy, like corn, is in most products, in some form or another. A simple solution is to stop buying so much processed crap, and be more selective about which processed foods you do choose to buy.

Just my take on it.

Cheers,

R.ticle One
 
I think soy is great and have never had anything but positive reaction to it. Agreed on the necessity for organic soy though. Chem farmed soy is completely jacked.
 
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