Sod the jubilee!

[Mailmonkey]

Believe me, I've considered closing it.

Sometimes these things have got to play out, like some intra-tribal conflict. There's a lot of shit that isn't interesting or pertinent if you're not parcipating, for sure. It's pretty much inevitable though; it's just part of group dynamics etc. For better or worse. I won't say 'amen' for the risk of irking someone.

Topic, anybody? Nope?



Good grief, no.

If it gets to the point where one of you mods think it needs closing, could it instead be merged into the MSB Debating thread, or whatever it's called. Makes sense so everyone knows where to go to gang up on him, and there's not weekly threads like this.

I'm enjoying this debate though :D

 

[parttime crackhead]

sorry how?

MM and MSB started to carry on a row that started yesterday. Sam and PTCH jumped into the ruck. I didnt like it and I said so.. The guy was getting overloaded and it wasnt fair in my opinion.

Youre giving this one example as a standard YPDH response then? Thats the evidence for your accusation. Oh ok..

I didn't even know there was a row to jump into haha. Clown.

 

[YellowPolkaDotHalo]

well look at the day befores posts PTCH.

I dont agree that you weren't part of that Sam but if you've got things to do go for it.

 

[Myshkin]

Sam and PTCH jumped into the ruck.

I didn't, and I resent you suggesting that I did.

To post in a thread (and the post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it was an observation that we've been down the same tired roads before) doesn't mean you're getting involved in the ruck. Maybe a mod should post in a thread once in a while when it threatens to veer off topic, no?

That's all it was. Any past conflicts with MSB are a thing of the past and therefore irrelevant to this thread. I really have more pressing matters going on. Okay?

 

[Marmalade]

If it gets to the point where one of you mods think it needs closing, could it instead be merged into the MSB Debating thread, or whatever it's called. Makes sense so everyone knows where to go to gang up on him, and there's not weekly threads like this.

I'm enjoying this debate though :D

there's no reason to close it anyway. you even started the thread, so it's not like there should be any whiners pissing n moaning about it being derailed. ethics in discourse are always relevant, no matter what the thread intent since it covers pretty much all communication strategy and intent.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

debate is about wanting to get someone else to see your point of view, and ultimately believe it, imo

and that's something I don't think you're very good at. you lack the skills to listen, and ultimately, the skills to identify (or empathise) fully with other people, mainly, as I already said, due to your intrinsic ambition to 'prove' your point, rather than get to the actual truth. those two things are sometimes fundamentally juxtaposed. very often in your case imo

Yes, I agree that a debate's purpose is wanting someone else to see your point of view and ultimately believe it. But clearly that isn't your ambition in dealing with me. No one, apart from knockando, ever bothers to present any information for me to listen to or read. They don't even present arguments. They just state their opinion. In a debate the ambition of both sides should be to prove their point - that is afterall the reason for debate that we have both agreed upon. Opinions change later, not during the debate.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

If it gets to the point where one of you mods think it needs closing, could it instead be merged into the MSB Debating thread, or whatever it's called. Makes sense so everyone knows where to go to gang up on him, and there's not weekly threads like this.

I'm enjoying this debate though :D

I know that I regularly go off topic, but to be fair to me, this entire thread was started to talk about the jubilee and what we thought about it. And you put a direct invite to me to come in and put forward an opinion that you knew would be the polar opposite to yours.

 

[Mailmonkey]

Well what really is the point in talking about it then? Like I already said, which you have clearly now admitted, it's about circle jerking and agreeing with each other. All you really want to do is say "fuck the monarchy" then collect your handjobs from your pals.

errr, no, I haven't admitted that at all, you've just made a massive inference again, based on what you want to believe. WHERE'S THE FUCKING LOGIC??????

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

because they're parts that are irrelavant or not pertinent to the ideology that I'm talking about or want to convey

Ok, so what you're saying is that you are here to prove a point, and not to listen or debate? Hmmm. Interesting Watson. That seems to be the very problem you are trying to ascribe to me. So what is this? Projecting your character onto me as a self improvement project for yourself or what?

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

errr, no, I haven't admitted that at all, you've just made a massive inference again, based on what you want to believe. WHERE'S THE FUCKING LOGIC??????

Well you obviously don't want to hear opposing views, because then you feel the need to argue back... which leads to a DEBATE. It's debate or circle jerk. Logic 1 - MM 0.

 

[Mailmonkey]

In a debate the ambition of both sides should be to prove their point

You are talking about debates It's not how most human's interact.

 

[Marmalade]

Yes, I agree that a debate's purpose is wanting someone else to see your point of view and ultimately believe it. But clearly that isn't your ambition in dealing with me. No one, apart from knockando, ever bothers to present any information for me to listen to or read. They don't even present arguments. They just state their opinion. In a debate the ambition of both sides should be to prove their point - that is afterall the reason for debate that we have both agreed upon. Opinions change later, not during the debate.

but if the person presenting an opinion isn't capable of changing their mind due to intrinsicallly ingrained bias, then it's a futile task to even try. if that person presents themselves in such a manner that can leave a person no other alternative to believe that they are not capable, or are possibly subconsciously unwilling to develop or change their viewpoint, then enaging it discourse is ultimately a waste of everybodies time and effort.

what would be more productive would be to go off an read some alternative source of opposing opinion, in a non-confontational surrounding, or neutral ground ... or various other more positive and effective alternatives

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

You are talking about debates It's not how most human's interact.

I am using debate as an umbrella term for - discussion, argument, disagreement, deliberate. It needn't be formal.

 

[YellowPolkaDotHalo]

I think the least said about the Chinup posting you made the better to be honest Marmalade.

 

[Marmalade]

Ok, so what you're saying is that you are here to prove a point, and not to listen or debate? Hmmm. Interesting Watson. That seems to be the very problem you are trying to ascribe to me.

no!

philosophy isn't about point. never is. ever

it's about a different perspective

I couldn't give a fuck about being right or wrong. ever. those two words generally fuck me off tbh. sometimes useful in terms of specifics, but rarely

philosphy or ideology isn't about right or wrong, it's about perspective and context

 

[Marmalade]

I think the least said about the Chinup posting you made the better to be honest Marmalade.

agreed generally. but it was a clear example of your hypocrisy with regard to you jumping in (while telling others not to) and you asked for another example, so I gave it to you

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

but if the person presenting an opinion isn't capable of changing their mind due to intrinsicallly ingrained bias, then it's a futile task to even try. if that person presents themselves in such a manner that can leave a person no other alternative to believe that they are not capable, or are possibly subconsciously unwilling to develop or change their viewpoint, then enaging it discourse is ultimately a waste of everybodies time and effort.

what would be more productive would be to go off an read some alternative source of opposing opinion, in a non-confontational surrounding, or neutral ground.

So you got your knickers in a twist yesterday because I said you're incapable of changing your mind due to instrinsically ingrained bias, but you say the same thing to me? I already said to you that I have totally overhauled my opinions in the last decade, so clearly the problem is not with me being unable to change my opinions. How can I be accused of an instrinsically ingrained bias when I have opinions from every newspaper going whilst almost all of yours are found in just one?

I already do read/watch alternative sources, as well as sources that agree with me. And I approach both with a critical mindset. However, debating with people who take the otherside serves a strong purpose too (off of BL of course). Because I am not capable of reading everything, and they could bring something to my attention that I missed.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Why are your opinions from newspapers? My opinions are my opinions.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

no!

philosophy isn't about point. never is. ever

it's about a different perspective

I couldn't give a fuck about being right or wrong. ever. those two words generally fuck me off tbh. sometimes useful in terms of specifics, but rarely

philosphy or ideology isn't about right or wrong, it's about perspective and context

I fully understand there is no right and no wrong in philosophy, that is why I do not get involved in those discussions. The courses that I took in philosophy did my fucking head in. It is just mental masturbation with little purpose to me. But on topics like this - the Queen's cost, there is a right and there is a wrong. There is a figure that exists that tells you her cost, and there is a figure that exists that tells you what she makes us. I know you think ideology must underpin what everyone else does and says, because it is such a strong factor in your life, but it honestly means little to me. I am fully capable of chopping and changing from one end of the spectrum to the other.

 

[Marmalade]

So you got your knickers in a twist yesterday because I said you're incapable of changing your mind due to instrinsically ingrained bias, but you say the same thing to me?

no, again!

when trying to take on board other people's perspectives, personally I like to engage a little trust. it goes a huge way in helping to be open and receptive, which is crucial to this kind of thing. and when I say trust, I mean trust in a persons motive for engaging in debates or discourse, not in blind trust of the information or arguement/details they present as facts

knowing and understanding a persons intent and motivation is essentially the key to everything we've been talking about. making the effort to understand other people's is essentially the key to understanting the interpersonal and interactive micro* universe.

*micro being everything that's mainly not macro (or god n religion and science and stuff ... eh, interpersonal I mean mainly)