Society and Morals Concerning Psychoactives

[Teotzlcoatl]

Society and Ethics Concerning Psychoactives-

Blatant public intoxication is unacceptable.
Driving, operating machinery or performing other possibly dangerous acts while intoxicated is unacceptable.
Cultivate, propagate and disseminate as many entheogenic ethnobotanicals as possible!
The period of gestation for a human baby is one of the most important times in a mother and child’s life. No psychoactive, entheogens or drugs of any sort should be taken at this time, and the mother should only consume whole food and drink.
Children under 17 shall not ingest psychoactives of any form. Including sugar, caffeine and any and all psychoactives, drugs, chemicals, substances and/or compounds, they shall only eat wholesome food and nothing but pure water .
Dosing another human with a drug, chemical or psychoactive without their knowledge and consent is considered a form of assault and is completely unacceptable.
All forms of habitual use of ANY drug is considered addiction and damaging to the user, no psychoactive should ever be used daily.
Women should NEVER use ANY substances when pregnant and/or lactating or breast feeding, they shall eat only wholesome organic food and drink. Couples (both the male and the female) should not use any substances while trying to conceive a child.
Habitual use of ANY substance is considered negative and unhealthy, all psychoactives should be used in moderation. Daily use of any drug is unacceptable.
Do not ingest intoxicating substances during the daytime, only become inebriated at night. Stimulants are acceptable to use in the morning and during daylight hours, but other forms of psychoactives are not; however, this excludes entheogens, which are to used infrequently, whenever the time is right.
Do NOT ingest multiple psychoactives at once. Do not mix drugs, this can cause dangerous interactions.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

these are my ideas about what should be morally acceptable concerning psychoactive drugs...

what would y'all change or add?

 

[bleh123]

Children under 17 shall not ingest psychoactives of any form. Including sugar

I think this should come out. At least the sugar part.

Caffeine, I understand, because I have taken (and still use) many hundred caffeine pills, and it's a drug with high potential to be used recklessly

 

[helium-4]

delete everything you wrote besides the bit about driving while intoxicated and women consuming drugs while pregnant.

 

[Delsyd]

welcome back TEO

Blatant public intoxication is unacceptable.

agreed. Unless you're at a gathering where most are intoxiacted and it is acceptable.

Driving, operating machinery or performing other possibly dangerous acts while intoxicated is unacceptable.

very true

Cultivate, propagate and disseminate as many entheogenic ethnobotanicals as possible!

if possible and capable then sure, why not.

The period of gestation for a human baby is one of the most important times in a mother and child’s life. No psychoactive, entheogens or drugs of any sort should be taken at this time, and the mother should only consume whole food and drink.

agreed

Children under 17 shall not ingest psychoactives of any form. Including sugar, caffeine and any and all psychoactives, drugs, chemicals, substances and/or compounds, they shall only eat wholesome food and nothing but pure water .

Ideally, yes dangerous chemicals, unhealthy foods and such should be avioided by everyone.
17 is just an arbitrary number.
I dont think you can pput an age on when one is ready for pscyhedelics.

All forms of habitual use of ANY drug is considered addiction and damaging to the user, no psychoactive should ever be used daily.

addiction is not good in that you are a slave to a substance. dont think all adicitive substances are physically harmful though.

Women should NEVER use ANY substances when pregnant and/or lactating or breast feeding, they shall eat only wholesome organic food and drink. Couples (both the male and the female) should not use any substances while trying to conceive a child.

agreed. though i dont see smoking pot or taking the occasional trip all that bad when trying to cocieve. But once pregnant and breast feeding the female should not take anything.

Habitual use of ANY substance is considered negative and unhealthy, all psychoactives should be used in moderation. Daily use of any drug is unacceptable.

disagree. some people can not get by in society without taking certain medications daily. In this case it is producitve.

Do not ingest intoxicating substances during the daytime, only become inebriated at night. Stimulants are acceptable to use in the morning and during daylight hours, but other forms of psychoactives are not; however, this excludes entheogens, which are to used infrequently, whenever the time is right.

nonsense

Do NOT ingest multiple psychoactives at once. Do not mix drugs, this can cause dangerous interactions.

nonsense

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

good input Delsyd, bleh123 and cloudy, thanks

keep it coming y'all!

some people can not get by in society without taking certain medications daily.

This is concerning psychoactives... not medicinals.

Unless you're at a gathering where most are intoxiacted and it is acceptable.

agreed.... but how should I word it? "Public intoxication is suitable during certain culturally sanctioned times and places"?

 

[Delsyd]

medicine is psychoactive

if you mean psychedelics, then i agree. There should be a period of integration in between trips.

 

[Raw Evil]

how should I word it? "Public intoxication is suitable during certain culturally sanctioned times and places"?

How about "should only be considered if the person can be absolutely sure that the environment is safe, and that help is available should anything (mental or physical) go wrong"?

Do not ingest intoxicating substances during the daytime, only become inebriated at night. Stimulants are acceptable to use in the morning and during daylight hours, but other forms of psychoactives are not; however, this excludes entheogens, which are to used infrequently, whenever the time is right.

...what? Day trips are awesome. Get some experience IMO.

 

[swilow]

If it harm none, do what thou will- wiccan rede crossed with the Thelemic law.

Each person can decide to do what they want- thats my rule.

Couples (both the male and the female) should not use any substances while trying to conceive a child

.

Why?

 

[Propyl Power]

I think the word "morals" has quite a lot of baggage attached to it, and gives your prescription the flavor of commandments handed down from on high.

I personally have no use whatsoever for "morals" ("...Let me forget righteousness. Free me of morals..." - AOS)

Tho it may not be that definitionally distinct, "ethics" seems more neutral, and would be a better word choice as it lacks the, well, 'moralizing' tone that "morals" has.

"If it harm none, do what thou will" - Ethics begins and ends here, no disclaimers or addendums necessary.

I've been worshipping mama ganja several times daily for slightly less than a decade, I light my bowls with a thunderbolt shot directly from my third eye, and if you were to gravely inform me of my immoral behavior I would laugh in your face And then of course offer you a toke

I have no problem with very moderate use of cannabis during pregnancy to combat morning sickness. I also think that very very light doses of DMT could potentially be a beneficial tonic for a pregnant woman and her fetus.

 

[Bardeaux]

Children under 17 shall not ingest psychoactives of any form. Including sugar, caffeine and any and all psychoactives, drugs, chemicals, substances and/or compounds, they shall only eat wholesome food and nothing but pure water .

I disagree with some of this. Some medications are necessary or imperative. Wholesome foods and pure water are a healthy diet and should be consumed by everyone reguardless of age.

Couples (both the male and the female) should not use any substances while trying to conceive a child.

I dont really see any harm in a couple being under the influence during conception.

Do not ingest intoxicating substances during the daytime, only become inebriated at night. Stimulants are acceptable to use in the morning and during daylight hours, but other forms of psychoactives are not;

Whats the difference between taking drugs at night and taking them during the day?

Do NOT ingest multiple psychoactives at once. Do not mix drugs, this can cause dangerous interactions.

Alot of psychoactives can be safe when used in conjunction with one another. I would change this to "be aware of drug interactions when combining substances."

I agree with everything else though for the most part

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Day trips are awesome. Get some experience IMO.

Excluding entheogens. Basically... don't start drinking or smoking pot at noon. I think that is reasonable.

Tho it may not be that definitionally distinct, "ethics" seems more neutral, and would be a better word choice as it lacks the, well, 'moralizing' tone that "morals" has.

Your right. Ethics is a better way to put it than "morals".

I have no problem with very moderate use of cannabis during pregnancy to combat morning sickness. I also think that very very light doses of DMT could potentially be a beneficial tonic for a pregnant woman and her fetus.

Now I disagree with that... I think a woman shouldn't take ANY drugs at all while she is carrying a child.

Why?

I remember watching an episode of "Cheers" when I was about 10.... Dianne and Sam were trying to get pregnant and Dianne was bitching at Sam for drinking coffee while they were trying to conceive. LOL

I'm not sure why.... but that sounded like a good idea... this isn't "no drugs during sex"... it's just don't take drugs while trying to make a baby, this makes the event special and notable.

 

[solistus]

Oy vey. What does morality even mean to you? How is it immoral to smoke pot at noon?

If I post a detailed reply I'll probably get nasty, so I won't, but most of what you wrote makes no sense, has nothing to do with morality and has no harms reduction value.

FWIW, "ethics" makes no sense to me either. When it's just you passing down your arbitrary guidelines and has nothing to do with how one's drug use might positively or negatively affect other beings, I don't see how either term is remotely applicable. A few of your standards like drugs during pregnancy are related but most are just your arbitrary guidelines that have nothing obvious to do with morality.

I miss that tragically short window where you decided to make yourself "no more" around here, to be blunt.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Do you ever even read my entire posts?

Your right. Ethics is a better way to put it than "morals".

 

[solistus]

Yes, I read your entire posts. None of them explained how this has anything to do with ethics or morals, besides, as I already clarified, a few such as the pregnancy one. Please define the word "ethics" and explain to me why smoking pot before sundown or mixing psychoactives is unethical, lulz

BTW, how can you now say mixing psychoactives is always bad when you've openly recommended ayahuasca to people? Ugh.

Also, you're* Try to at least be correct in your grammar and spelling if you're gonna rudely quote your own posts as if they answered my objections. If you're gonna be arrogant and full of yourself, at least put some effort into it.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Viagra is psychoactive. Good luck trying to conceive with a perma-limp dick. (Not saying everyone who takes viagra has a perma-limp dick, but these rules sure puts them at a disadvantage from a darwinian standpoint)

 

[Propyl Power]

You're right solistus, whether the word used is 'ethics' or 'morals', a sophisticated discussion about either is not to be found here...

I guess I was just trying to help Teo become a little more aware of his uniquely self-sabotaging word choices


But hey it can be useful to set up rules and guidelines, if only so they can be broken all the more decisively

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

yeah

anybody else got any ideas?

 

[solistus]

Heh.

FWIW, I would define ethics as the study of how one's actions affect others and what sorts of effects on others one should or should not want to have. I define morality as an explicit code or list of rules that attempts to put some abstract ethical idea into concrete practice. By those definitions, Teo's list falls under the category of morality, since it's just a list of "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots" with no explanation for most of them of what ethical reasons led him to adopt that rule. The only one in his OP that seems coherent from either perspective to me is his stance on drugs for pregnant women, since he pretty clearly explains the ethical purpose for that guideline (to protect the infant from material harm), although his dogmatism about things like pot for morning sickness, which is not known to cause any specific birth defect or health problem, causes me to wonder how sincere or at least coherently thought out even that ethical stance truly is.

Since I'm getting sucked back into this awful thread anyway, I'm gonna indulge my own narcissism now and go "line by line" on Teo's list. I'll try to keep it nice-ish. Using ""s instead of quote tags cuz I'm lazy and there are a bunch of them.

"Blatant public intoxication is unacceptable." - The sentiment here isn't so bad, assuming 'blatant' means 'obnoxious or disruptive' and not simply 'obvious to those paying attention and trying to "catch" you'. There's nothing inherently wrong with public intoxication, just with obnoxious or disruptive behavior in public - whether intoxicated or not, really. Anyway, if you take out the moralising talk about it being "unacceptable" and change it to a personal guideline of "avoid unnecessary public intoxication and be conscious of others who might not want anything to do with your drug use or the crazy things that drug use makes you say and do sometimes" I'd have no qualms.

"Driving, operating machinery or performing other possibly dangerous acts while intoxicated is unacceptable." - agreed. Nothing more to say here, unless 'possibly dangerous acts' is extended to things like taking a walk in the park or posting silly shit on the internet

"Cultivate, propagate and disseminate as many entheogenic ethnobotanicals as possible!" - Um, what? No. By the way, this blatantly contradicts a lot of your other 'rules' and is also pretty clearly against the forum rules. Don't advise people to do illegal or potentially illegal things. Even most 'legal entheogens' in the US become very much illegal when distributed with intent to consume or knowledge of the other party's intent to consume. It's kind of ridiculous that you throw this Timothy Leary drug evangelism crap in the middle of your attempt to define rules for responsible drug use.

"The period of gestation for a human baby is one of the most important times in a mother and child’s life. No psychoactive, entheogens or drugs of any sort should be taken at this time, and the mother should only consume whole food and drink." - drugs that actually have any harmful effect on fetal development, 100% agreed. Only "whole food" (what, no smoothies?) and drink, whatever the hell that means, is dogmatic and stupid. An individual choosing to adopt this guideline isn't stupid at all, but representing it as a rule that you expect others to follow because you say so, let alone as at all an ethical or moral rather than personal health decision, is pretty stupid.

"Children under 17 shall not ingest psychoactives of any form. Including sugar, caffeine and any and all psychoactives, drugs, chemicals, substances and/or compounds, they shall only eat wholesome food and nothing but pure water ." - Oh, for fuck's sake. You've completely lost track of any distinction between personal health decisions and "society and morals concerning psychoactives" here, clearly. What the FUCK does drinking only pure water have to do with moral standards of how society should approach drug use? Are you now telling me that children drinking milk or fruit juice is immoral? You're delusional

"Dosing another human with a drug, chemical or psychoactive without their knowledge and consent is considered a form of assault and is completely unacceptable." - agreed. The right to ingest psychoactives also includes the right not to. Assault sounds like a pretty good term, really - it's an unwelcome physical intrusion on the body.

"All forms of habitual use of ANY drug is considered addiction and damaging to the user, no psychoactive should ever be used daily." - considered addiction and damaging to the user by you, maybe. Quit trying to make my decisions for me and quit telling me I'm damaged or immoral because I've made different personal choices. In other words: fuck you too, then, I'll smoke my pot and drink my caffeine as much as I damn well please. Addiction is not inherently damaging or evil; it's a physiological process and one you clearly don't understand very well.

"Women should NEVER use ANY substances when pregnant and/or lactating or breast feeding, they shall eat only wholesome organic food and drink. Couples (both the male and the female) should not use any substances while trying to conceive a child." - again, more of your personal beliefs and health decisions being forced onto others as some sort of moral imperative. Drugs that affect the fetus negatively are one thing, and I think the above 'assault rule' more or less covers that too as a fetus clearly can't consent to drug use, but there are plenty of psychoactives and... non-organic sourced foods.... that are perfectly healthy for the fetus. You've managed to offend me on an even deeper political level now by mixing your authoritarian views on drug use with limits on reproductive autonomy. There are very few things that make me bust out the Godwin comparisons completely seriously. Males telling me all the ways females should be controlled and coerced while pregnant, not for any specific reason but for "the good of society" or in the name of some twisted "morality" is definitely up there on the list. Have I called you a fascist recently? Fascist.

"Habitual use of ANY substance is considered negative and unhealthy, all psychoactives should be used in moderation. Daily use of any drug is unacceptable." - again, unacceptable to YOU maybe. Fuck off and quit telling me all the ways my personal decisions are unacceptable to you. Get over yourself, get some psychotherapy for your blatant crippling pathologies, just... Quit this bullshit.

"Do not ingest intoxicating substances during the daytime, only become inebriated at night. Stimulants are acceptable to use in the morning and during daylight hours, but other forms of psychoactives are not; however, this excludes entheogens, which are to used infrequently, whenever the time is right." - this is among the dumbest things I've ever seen you write. I am at a loss for words how to begin explaining how stupid and not at all relevant to morality or ethics this "rule" is. Also, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ENTHEOGENS AND PSYCHOACTIVES. Entheogens are just psychoactives that you consider valuable. There's no universal agreement on which ones those are, which you would know if you ever actually listened to anything people here tell you when you ramble like this about your own ignorant prejudices.

"Do NOT ingest multiple psychoactives at once. Do not mix drugs, this can cause dangerous interactions. " - Wait, maybe I spoke too soon. This might be even dumber, especially from one of BL's biggest recent advocates of ayahuasca. Again, your infantile understanding of harms reduction shines through: give useless and nonsensical advice categorically denying the safety of any drug combinations instead of actually researching the relative safety of specific combos before choosing to ingest them.

 

[HighonLife]

i feel like some of your rules are ethnocentric and shouldnt necessarily pertain to the universal use of psychoactives but have more to do with your perception of right and wrong based on ideas present within western culture

for example mothers using while pregnant, the 17n under rule, being intoxicated in public, only using at night, n maybe a few others

you see what im saying?

and i appologize, i havent read the entire thread. just the OP n 2nd post