So.... who cares about the meth addicts?

[hyroller]

A substitute isn't meant to be a long-term solution, if anything can assist recovery or reduce harmful drug use, why shouldn't it be considered?

My sentiments exactly.

We are living in the second decade of the 21st century, people. Meth consumption is not a new phenomenon, nor is it a dying one. Moreover, its widespread abundance and per-capita use in Australia would suggest or even urge that we get on our game in terms of dependency treatment for the sake our public and future generations.

And MrIbis - if any of what I have been experiencing since the dawn of my habit was attributable to something else, then I'd be more than willing to seek treatment for that

 

[MrIbis]

I never said it shouldn't be considered - but these are the drugs they're going to look at when it comes time to 'rehab' people from meth.

seriously - have you thought about a 1 week detox program? (no not one of those little boxes from the chemist). An actual 1 week stay house, with a bunch of other junkies... where they dry you out - get you on your feet - and you decide after that what you wanna do.

 

[phase_dancer]

Another Bler who works in AOD told me that in Qld, a substantial amount had been allocated towards prevention-treatment when the "ice epidemic" was the talk of the day a few years ago. Since that time, from what I can gather, much of that money has yet to be spent, and what has been spent hasn't all gone towards meth treatment, but instead directed at broader community programs - addressing other drug issues, particularly alcohol.

Of the meth users I've known well over the years, most only insufflated speed, or bombed it. Nearly all of those gave up with few worries, apart from extended periods of lethargy which everyone suffered - some for up to 1 year later. In many cases this was after 10 or more years of use - sometimes daily.

However, of those who vapourised it or booted meth, most are still doing it, despite periods of abstinence for some and repeated failed attempts at giving up for others.

Interestingly, not everyone prefers smoking, particularly if the person has insufflated for years.

Getting any substance out of your life when that substance has been around awhile is much like getting an old lover out of your life, one you still have feelings for.

Unless you can put distance between yourself and your "loved one" you can be forever tempted. Getting away, staying with family or friends and committing to being there for an extended period seems to help for many people. The going back to face the gang can be a killer for willpower, and it's why some people never do. Yet others bounce back.

Good personal skills management, never leave home without it...

 

[hyroller]

seriously - have you thought about a 1 week detox program? (no not one of those little boxes from the chemist). An actual 1 week stay house, with a bunch of other junkies... where they dry you out - get you on your feet - and you decide after that what you wanna do.

not gonna happen - last place I want to be while trying to focus on other things is around other people who have precious few stories or things to discuss that are not drug-related... it would just do my head in. and I'm not at liberty to go MIA for a weeks' time, unfortunately, although it's a nice idea.... sigh.

I suppose I'll just have to bite the bullet and concede that a complete lifestyle change is what's really on the cards - incorporating diet and exercise and the whole nine yards. Considering moving back in with my old man for a bit to keep me on top of my game as well; oddly enough, home seems to be the only place I have ever achieved anything meaningful in the last decade, even if it entails some sacrifice of my personal liberties.

since theory is always easier than practice, I'll be spending the next little while sussing out just what needs to be done to feel the least amount of pinch when push comes to shove. So far, the idea is to load up on a shit load of guarana, vitamins, caffeine, pseudo tabs and whatever else I can get my hands on that will help to keep my energy levels afloat - and more importantly, enable me to get through the year having accomplished the overfilled stockpile of tasks that await!

living a life bound by unsustainable, undesirable behaviours was undoubtedly destined to become boring, according to the mind. the body, however, does not share the same ability in being able to just depart from this belief...i.e. what it's grown used to relying upon to function, in certain ways. getting the two to realign once again will be tricky. but I hope, not impossible.

 

[Stop The Sobriety]

Too fucked up to type everything out (coming down off meth infact) so I will put a whole post later. Basicly Meth and Heroin withdraws are the same. Different to a point but in most ways very similar. It is because of this that it is possible to treat both opiate and meth addiction. The fact of the matter is though that meth is the new weed just like each thing before it and as such it will be bashed to the point that the public does not want to help an addict they just want them to die.

 

[Stop The Sobriety]

Alright, much less geekin/comedown happening atm so I will make this a bit shorter than most of my informative posts but still to the point.

~ We will begin with the common known thoughts about the two addictions.
Heroin- Physical pain on WD's, feeling sick, pukeing, stabbing feeling in body
Meth- Depression, sick feeling, fatigued to the point of passing out for days

~ These are simply the basic things gone through with the WD's of the two drugs based on my own meandering experiences with them as I know it and as well as a few friends who travel down just one way and not the other (Most people do heroin and meth at different times in there life, I do them ruffly evenly as long as the market is there)

~ I will now say something that might through people a bit off about the feeling of heroin withdraw because it is often hard to get over the pain felt during it. Both Heroin and Methamphetamine withdraw are completely mentally stimulated with the exception of the actions done on methamphetamine (will explain). Because of the fact that all addiction is a mental stimulation that wishes to induce the "normalcy" that it once achieved when on the drug, most all drugs can be treated the same way though it is often un-noticed by most.

~ Heroin: Pain is only a mental stimulation that is intended to force the body to do or stops something as to prevent further harm to itself. The pain from Heroin comes from the fact that the overloaded opioid intake in the body was just cut off and now the body is confused, what used to be a constant flow of a new found joy has now turned about as entertaining to the mind and body as a wet piece of cardboard. Because of this the body goes into a state of shock, causing pain and a sickening feeling that often causes puking (the pain has been in my gut a few times and was the cause of the puking). This physical pain is the brain wanting more outside stimulation so that it can maintain its new found normal regulation of the opioid. This is why often pain killers are needed during a comedown from opioids if the user takes large doses.

~ Meth: The mental depression felt by a meth user who is going through withdraws is something that can equally be side by side with the pain from heroin withdraws. The feeling of hopelessness coupled with the sluggish nature brought on by days without sleep drives the body to a degree of insanity that few normal people could understand. Meth users often pass out for days at a time when they come down from binges, this sleep leads to bed sores and pooling of blood for those who remain still for long periods of time. With Meth there is also physical pains that are brought on by actions that where performed during the rush of the drug. If you ever wish to know the extent of this pain go on a ten day binge and do almost nothing but work out, then come down. This is a dramatic form of what happens but it is a way to express it, the human body is not yet ready to work for long periods of time without any rest or food (a more common example would be cleaning the house a hundred freaking times).


~ Know that both of these cases are the feelings of hard users as well as the fact that not all the effects of a withdraw are included for either of them, simply the major ones to point out the fact that the drugs are equally difficult to WD from. The addiction to the drug is formed by the person, it is the person who decides how hard the addiction will be... know that.


If you wish to hear more of this I will type possible things you can do to help ease yourself off the drugs, as well as other topics about them but know that my thoughts on them are far different from NA and other peoples.

 

[wrek3000]

guy ive have gone from opiate addiction to meth addiction,to the stage where iv'ing half weights daily.Ive also gone from a severe speed habbit of shooting weights of some of the best base you would have ever seen,but to be honest the withdrawls and agony i used to go thru from my habit on the gear really did kill me.The pain and hanging out i went thru of not having a shot.to the time on methadine,well it was a long time,going to get dosed and every few week dropping it down,till finally after a year n a half of telling myself ,yeah im gonna kick it finally now,then what happens, u go back to the everyday routing,of trying t ease the pain again,just having a bit,then what happens u fall back in to that dreaded cycle again........time passes n u r back in the clinic again you have just gone back to the way of life u have tried to kick, its a cycle aand its fucked...but second time rounfd im determined, not going therenot again,so i have now discovered meth...same deal everyday whenever i coud get it,wham! but to all u people saying meth ain bad addictio..it is.but nowhere near what the people using opiates go thru to kick....meth gas seed whatever u wanna call it,i fucked myself on it all, but now its taken me quite a few years to get me to where i am now,i used to crave the gear,the rush of the b the long lasting sex of the ice.....but i honestly do have feelings for the guys trying to kick the smack happit,they do suffer.guys or should i say girls i dont know nowadays what the pharmacies,or if they can do to help all the speed freaks out,but i cant be much to help with the physical and psycological damage cause to opiate users,and most they cant help they r in that cycle and many wish they werent but hey i hope they ge their lifes back....they r all human afterall...
Sorrry but thats my fucked life experience,hope alot of u guys dont do the same....

 

[puckboy]

I think a very carefully watched and dispensed script for dexamphetamine in the right doseage, and tapering off of over the right amount of time could really help some, probably alot of meth addicts trying to quit (if they were really determined).

In therapeutic doses it doesn't produce any high if you have a tolerance (which meth addicts will I'd assume). But it would remove those sluggish, tired, depressed etc withdrawals, without the high/rush of smoking/IVing meth. Kinda like what methadone is to heroin I guess you could say?

Then once past the w/d stage and tapering off the d-amp, it would come down to the persons own willpower. Like with most addictions. I've never been addicted to meth, but I've used a fair bit of it and used d-amp daily for weeks at a time, sometimes longer... so take this post with a grain of salt.

 

[Jabberwocky]

thread popped up in OD

Stimulant Maintenance Programs, check it

 

[Luude]

that's not a real fair way to look at it, youve been/going through opiate addiction and i'm sure you know what it's like to be fucked by the system in one way or another.

Were you spoon fed meth? Was a needle forced into your vein full of dope?

You fucked yourself, don't go blaming the 'system'.

I used meth for 2 years knowing i was in control of what i was doing. I didn't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, it was my fuckin choice to use the drugs i did.

Too many addicts feel like they are owed something by the 'system'. Get up and make it happen yourself.

 

[puckboy]

Were you spoon fed meth? Was a needle forced into your vein full of dope?

You fucked yourself, don't go blaming the 'system'.

I used meth for 2 years knowing i was in control of what i was doing. I didn't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, it was my fuckin choice to use the drugs i did.

Too many addicts feel like they are owed something by the 'system'. Get up and make it happen yourself.

I don't think it's as black and white as that. I don't think leftwing was blaming the 'system' anyway, just pointing out that it can fuck people over in an infinite amount of ways, and in regard to drug addicts even moreso. I don't think anyone here is wanting to be felt sorry for either.

On another note, addicts are owed one thing by the 'system' and that is proper and legitimate help if/when they wish to kick their habit. You may have been able to stop on your own, good for you, but many others aren't for whatever reason(s).

As humans we're meant to help each other, especially those struggling with whatever problem it may be. So what if it was their choice to use meth, which I'll add could be due to a plethora of reasons, even self medicating due to mental illness/trauma. They can still be decent people who have much to offer and the 'system' owes them any available help to quit if they can't on their own which the overwhelming majority cannot it seems.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Were you spoon fed meth? Was a needle forced into your vein full of dope?

You fucked yourself, don't go blaming the 'system'.

I used meth for 2 years knowing i was in control of what i was doing. I didn't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, it was my fuckin choice to use the drugs i did.

Too many addicts feel like they are owed something by the 'system'. Get up and make it happen yourself.

um, what are you talking about? 8)

i have legitimate chronic pain and have had a lot of problems along the way getting the right treatment.

i'm not owed anything, i deserve adequate treatment.

anything else you'd like to try and take out of context?

On another note, addicts are owed one thing by the 'system' and that is proper and legitimate help if/when they wish to kick their habit. You may have been able to stop on your own, good for you, but many others aren't for whatever reason(s).

As humans we're meant to help each other, especially those struggling with whatever problem it may be. So what if it was their choice to use meth, which I'll add could be due to a plethora of reasons, even self medicating due to mental illness/trauma. They can still be decent people who have much to offer and the 'system' owes them any available help to quit if they can't on their own which the overwhelming majority cannot it seems.

+1

luude obviously dooen't think the same.

i remember you telling me of a family member or friend overdosing, luude. rehabiitation very well could have saved this persons life

 

[Luude]

As humans we're meant to help each other, especially those struggling with whatever problem it may be. So what if it was their choice to use meth, which I'll add could be due to a plethora of reasons, even self medicating due to mental illness/trauma. They can still be decent people who have much to offer and the 'system' owes them any available help to quit if they can't on their own which the overwhelming majority cannot it seems.

Of course they could be decent people, half the meth addicts i know were fantastic people before they started using.

Problem is; we KNOW society doesn't accept the things we do, we KNOW that use of illicit drugs is looked down upon. How can you expect help when the substance you are addicted to is highly illegal?

If you choose to get involved with certain substances, you take on the onus of being responsible for getting yourself off it should you choose. Im all for acceptance of drug use and i believe everyone is entitled to consume whatever substance they want however i will never place a strain on society as a result of poor choices i may have made.

In an ideal world addicts would get help, however the political climate of today views us as criminals so don't expect to get help when its needed. Simple really.

 

[hyroller]

fuck off Luude, the point of this post was not for you to broadcast your uneducated, self-serving platitudes....

it's about establishing equality of rehabilitation methods, making funding and resources available for those serious about ridding themselves of the habit without enduring the varying degrees of withdrawal that can impact one's capacities to live their day-to-day life.... and getting with the times, among other things.

In an 'ideal world', people like you wouldn't stand on their egocentric soapboxes preaching 'holier than thou' - when I bet, if facilities were available at the time you "decided to quit", you would have made no light use of them.... 8)

 

[Oldrolla]

^^^ + 1

 

[Jabberwocky]

fuck off Luude, the point of this post was not for you to broadcast your uneducated, self-serving platitudes....

it's about establishing equality of rehabilitation methods, making funding and resources available for those serious about ridding themselves of the habit without enduring the varying degrees of withdrawal that can impact one's capacities to live their day-to-day life.... and getting with the times, among other things.

In an 'ideal world', people like you wouldn't stand on their egocentric soapboxes preaching 'holier than thou' - when I bet, if facilities were available at the time you "decided to quit", you would have made no light use of them.... 8)

oh don't worry, he's already complainging about a 2 month xanax binge he's going to have to withdrawal from like it's the end of the world. all he needs to do is suck it up like a man and deal with it, because like an addict, he abused his medication and is now expecting help. how about a spoonful of concrete to harden yourself up luude? you fucked up, now deal with the consequences like a man.

ha, what the joke this guy is. people see right through you man, i don't know why you still bother posting your crap around here. it's much nicer without you around. you've never anything positive to contribute.

he couldn't even acknowledge the fact that, while on his soap box, his arm chair psychology on me was the furthest thing from the truth. it obviously hurts him when he's pointed out and proven wrong, which is what this site is all about.

providing harm minimisation while eliminating bullshit information, such as luude's posts

 

[hyroller]

LOL, I suppose now that he's addicted to prescription drugs, he's got every right to be an elitist.... 8)

Seriously. If you can't shed any meaningful light on the debilitating effects of a Class A drug habit... GIT outta my thread!

And, more importantly, save your judgement and hypocrisy for some other f00lz....

This issue has real currency and real value in Australian society, it's too bad that your benzo-ridden microcosm is too blinkered to see the bigger picture.

 

[MrIbis]

sorry im gonna post this again - who gives two shits about meth addicts...

iif you feel you need a cracky a day, get a head check man - and just do without it... i just came off a damn meth binge, and im fine... quite nice rock mind you.

dont have a go at luude, he is right in a way, society see's us as criminals - and ICE seems to be the drug driving crime, things like the south melb shooting where that bloke got shot.... i knew who he was... an ICE head named Samir. he was fuckn sharded to hell.. insane - coz he cant put that cracky down...

yet you guys look down on heroin use and needles like thats all fucked.. think bout it

 

[Jabberwocky]

i'm an IVer and shoot morphine, i don't look down on heroin users at all.

not have a go at luude when he makes ironic and ridiculous statements like this? sorry but he makes himself a target with his ridiculous posts.

Too many addicts feel like they are owed something by the 'system'. Get up and make it happen yourself.

now that he's ran out of his xanax script, through his own abuse and "goodwill" of handing out to friends, he feels he should be able to require more help by getting another script from the ER or another doctor.

he should take his own advice, get off his arse and suck it up and deal with his own actions rather expecting doctors to feel sorry for him, rescript him only for him to probably go and abuse his script again. he's a drug seeker, plain and simple. he's one of those people ruining for those of us who need legitimate treatment and don't get it.

 

[hyroller]

MrIbis - I personally don't give a flying fuck about the dopey, dull-minded smackheads - the shifty sons of bitches I've known them to be in my time - either, but that doesn't mean I don't support the programs that are available for them to get clean.

If it weren't for the opiate medication prescribers that you so vigorously advocate, I'm sure your 'eight-ball-a-day habit' (which, apparently, you were always totally in control!!!! over) would have required you to either suck it up, and deal with your withdrawals.... or jump off the Westgate.

for fucks sake - you thinking your heroin addiction is superior to anyone elses meth addiction is the biggest load of shit to sweep this board. period.