So, What Made Me an Addict?

[Adrenochrome]

I was forced (well I went to appease my parents becuase they said they'd kick me out if I didn't) to go to a rehab program (rosecrance in Rockford, IL) and it was bisically a long AA meeting. I had gotten arrested, and they said i needed to go so I did.

They said if that the only way to beat addiction is with the 12 steps and to surrender to a higher power. I asked what if I'm not addicted, how do I know I'm addicted? They said I just was and that I needed the 12 steps. I forget what dumb high power I choose something really stupid like the laws of nature, I 'worked' the first couple steps and finally got out of that shit hole after ~30 days. I got back out, started college and did some more dope for a few mo. then I set a date to be my last day going to the west side and after that date I hadn't done it since.

BUT I guess i wasn't an addict, cause if I was then why didn't I have to 'work at it' in any way, but shit I sure was going to the west side a lot.

I hate AA more than most religions because atleast religions acknowledges that they're a religion.

 

[Broshious]

I was forced (well I went to appease my parents becuase they said they'd kick me out if I didn't) to go to a rehab program (rosecrance in Rockford, IL) and it was bisically a long AA meeting. I had gotten arrested, and they said i needed to go so I did.

They said if that the only way to beat addiction is with the 12 steps and to surrender to a higher power. I asked what if I'm not addicted, how do I know I'm addicted? They said I just was and that I needed the 12 steps. I forget what dumb high power I choose something really stupid like the laws of nature, I 'worked' the first couple steps and finally got out of that shit hole after ~30 days. I got back out, started college and did some more dope for a few mo. then I set a date to be my last day going to the west side and after that date I hadn't done it since.

BUT I guess i wasn't an addict, cause if I was then why didn't I have to 'work at it' in any way, but shit I sure was going to the west side a lot.

I hate AA more than most religions because atleast religions acknowledges that they're a religion.

I wouldn't have any problem with AA/NA except that it's so damn full of itself. Their way is the only way, and if you quit without them then you weren't a "true" addict in the first place.

 

[narco anonomous]

Good for you. Thousands, no, Millions of others turn to a higher power and succeed using that technique. It doesn't make them any worse or less than you.

If humans are the 'most advanced' organism then why are we fucking ourselves to death? We are rapidly destroying our own paradise. That doesn't sound very advanced to me.

You say that God does not exist and that its proven. Sorry no. Have you ever seen a million dollars? no. But it exists. The lack of direct physical evidence does not imply the absence of something. Try harder tough guy.

The main reason were fucking our selves out of existence? Big business' insaine apitite for destruction. Why doese no one recognize it? Religeon's insaine appitite to political control over other people, power promised to them by corperate puppets known as republicans. And let's not forgett the great things other religeons are doing around the world. Humans ARE the most advanced organism, they have the capability to do absolutely extraordinary things, It's when multiple people get behind stupid out dated beliefs that we start "fucking ourselves out of existence"

In regards to your last argument, shame on you. I have seen a million dollars, and even if I hadn't I would know it existed because I've seen the effects of it's presence (multi million dollar contracts, extreme wealth, it's a logical concept based in math) unlike god. As asked earlier what doese imply absence of god? We are trying as hard as we can, but we just can't seem to get through to you people. You call it faith, I call it stupidity.

 

[Adrenochrome]

Good for you. Thousands, no, Millions of others turn to a higher power and succeed using that technique. It doesn't make them any worse or less than you.

If humans are the 'most advanced' organism then why are we fucking ourselves to death? We are rapidly destroying our own paradise. That doesn't sound very advanced to me.

You say that God does not exist and that its proven. Sorry no. Have you ever seen a million dollars? no. But it exists. The lack of direct physical evidence does not imply the absence of something. Try harder tough guy.

So if we're destroying our own paradise and theres a higher power why the fuck is it concerned with you quitting drugs when some people have serve mental retardations?

Humans are the most advanced organism, that is what I was saying is totally accepted as fact, you're not going to be able to name an animal that has left the atmosphere.

There is no god, i'm not an atheist I'm a scientist,
God's not a theory, god's an—unsupported—hypothesis at best, and there is NO evidence for god, whatsoever, after all of these centeries of hypothesizing.



I haven't done any drugs since I decided not to and so can you, you don't need AA, you don't need god, YOU DONT NEED SHIT but to make the decision to do so.

And if you can't do it on your own then, would that make me a higher power cause I can?

The truth is even if you're in AA you are doing it on your own your just wasting a shit load of time at the same time and listening to a bunch of bullshit.

 

[frizzantik]

whoa how did this get turned into some philosophical debate

 

[E-llusion]

whoa how did this get turned into some philosophical debate

It's cool, considering the facts and the article and I think it provides a lively debate !

 

[AireePotter]

in my opinion, i think it's pretty stupid to rely on "God" or other "higher powers" that people speak of to quit drugs. Even if he was real, I don't think he would give you the easy path to life. God doesn't make a person quit. Only you (or maybe your friends or anyone that's physically there) can help you quit.

And I believe in most cases, people aren't "addicted" to (certain?) drugs. We just like to get fucked up. It's fun, isn't it?

 

[Pimp Lazy]

It has more to do with a "higher power" being a convenient construct to give up control to. The higher powers that created the rehab program seek to allay the despair and fear people have from the lack of control they have on their lives. I know this comes from the AA model which I imagine has more to do with WASPy 1950's male mentality.

"Where's that damn woman with my bourbon when I get home from work! Goddammit Helen! And the boy... wearing a slingshot in his back pants pocket! Where's my belt Helen? Dammit woman!"

Oh the pain.

PAX,
PL

 

[Fight Club]

AA/NA have an essentially Judeo-Christian philosophy that is cloaked in nonsectarian rhetoric to avoid scaring off those who do not adhere to an Abrahamic religion. If you look into the organization's history, it's continuing religious foundations become clear.

Aside from the religious aspects from the organization, there remain several basic tenets, some of them mentioned in the original article, that encourage the addict to substitute the support group for their drug addiction. A philosophy that requires religious support group attendance as an essential part of "recovery" often diverts the focus from learning important coping skills that do not feed back into the organization.

Agreed. AA tends to espouse and promote the belief "keep it simple; all you need is AA". I think there are many roads to recovery, and 12 step programs are just one.

As the some of the posters above suggest, neither god, religion, nor spirituality are for everyone.

Coping skills are an important part of recovery for me. I do find however that when I embrace spirituality and self-discipline in my lifestyle, I just don't need them as often.

FC

 

[Fight Club]

actually the assumption in AA is that you, as an addict, obviously couldnt control your life the way it was going. when you tried to do it your way, running the show, it fucked up your life and thats why you came to AA. so the idea is that you start working gods will in your life , not your own will. your own will brought you to your knees and ruined your life, no matter how hard you tried. when you give up your will to god, it takes alot of the pressure and frustrations of life away. when you get all caught up in your self will, it usually leads to problems.

so the general idea is that you stop trying to run the show and just stop stressing over small things. and no i dont mean just give up and expect things to fall into your lap. what i mean is take things in stride. dont get so butt hurt when you dont get the promotion you wanted so bad at your job. when you get hung up on things and try so fucking hard to get things your way every time, the frustration will eventually cause you to use drugs or drink. its definitely not that god always has control over your life and makes bad things happen to you because you dont obey him lol.

i dont really think i'm explaining things well enough, but i tried.. and i guess you guys are right about "a power greater than yourself". i'm not claiming to be an expert on AA, but i've had some experience in the program and its definitely an interesting life experience. i'm not super religious but i'm always up to trying new things. after 3 years of being a hopeless drug addict i've tried to sober up many many times with no success but i've been on this AA kick for almost 4 months now completely clean and sober.

Keep it up, you're doing great! You seem to have a far greater understanding of the program and the philosophy behind it then most of the people that have only been around for a while. I don't think I could have explained as well, and I have been attending meetings pretty much every day for 18 months.

WRT turning your will over to "a power greater than yourself [who you chose to call GOD] or whatever, I think that god is framed that way in AA so they don't scare off people who are not religious, but at the end of the day, anyone around the rooms long enough usually believes in some form of a superior being or force.

FC

 

[Fight Club]

The all powerful flying spaghetti monster freed me from my battle with addiction.

He can do the same for you....

....but only if you believe in him.

You go Flying Spaghetti Monster! LOL

FC

 

[Fight Club]

The main reason were fucking our selves out of existence? Big business' insaine apitite for destruction. Why doese no one recognize it? Religeon's insaine appitite to political control over other people, power promised to them by corperate puppets known as republicans. And let's not forgett the great things other religeons are doing around the world. Humans ARE the most advanced organism, they have the capability to do absolutely extraordinary things, It's when multiple people get behind stupid out dated beliefs that we start "fucking ourselves out of existence"

In regards to your last argument, shame on you. I have seen a million dollars, and even if I hadn't I would know it existed because I've seen the effects of it's presence (multi million dollar contracts, extreme wealth, it's a logical concept based in math) unlike god. As asked earlier what doese imply absence of god? We are trying as hard as we can, but we just can't seem to get through to you people. You call it faith, I call it stupidity.

I call it "people would take your message so much more seriously if you could learn to spell".

FC

 

[Reefer_Decree]

intesting article and debate

I dont post often on here.. but I am a very regular visitor. I just found this an interesting article, trying to understand addiction better myself. after years of substance abuse.. I never went to rehab. a few of my friends have. I probably should have many times. attended a NA meeting a friend was going to one time to see what it was about.. but it wasnt for me. I mean, that same friend has done nearly 2 years of rehab in the last 3 years attending different centers and he still comes out and uses.. I have managed to land a job in a very remote location with only a very small amount of weed which is very expensive at that.. im talking au50 a gram.. so i graduated from years of amphetamines to daily herion habbit, and smoking a few grams of weed a day.. to jumping on a plane.. and taking myself right out of the scene I was in. without a chemist in 500 kilometers. I was sick for a week.. but slowly got better.. some people might think its running from my problems but I look at it as retreating and regenerating before going back to face the rat race again. I still dont think ive cured my addiction issues.. although ive got sick of/grown out of.. learnt to hate after bad site effects.. many drugs i used excessively for long periods of time. for example meth.. and pills (kinda lost the magic) but I still love the needle.. and chopping up a bowl.. and when in the year ive been away when ive gone home for a week or so, I always get on a couple of times.. Hopefully I can control myself when i move back

I think the fact rehabs seem to have some focus on religion isnt such a bad thing. I mean the question of god existing aside, the beliefs and teaching of the bible are of good nature. ie. the ten commandments.. I shall not kill etc.. These are along the same lines as alot of our laws. These things give good direction for people who might not have any direction in life at all.. all who are constantly surounding themselves with illegal/self destructive behaviour. all in all it gives people faith and hope that a miracle might happen in there lives for a complete change. I mean miracles do happen dont they and how do yo explain them.. Possibly the great god we're all talking about

 

[Fight Club]

The truth is, there is extensive research showing that there is a higher occurance of "spontaneous recovery", than the success rate of AA. Meaning, you have a better chance of quitting if you eventually try on your own than never going to AA in the first place.


And to those who go to AA - LOL good luck sirs, maybe quitting bluelight would help too. rofl

You make two really good points, albeit one without knowing it. Most of the people in AA, those with success and without, tried "spontaneous recovery" (i.e. just quitting), often many times, and it didn't work. My hats off to anyone who can just "give it up".

I don't think there's anything wrong with drug and alcohol use either, so long as your doing it when you want, not fucking up your life (unless that's what you want to do), and not hurting your loved ones and the people around you that count on you for love, help, guidance and support (your kids?).

No doubt about the quitting bluelight thing either. I've asked myself more than a few times "what the hell am I doing here?"

More good than harm? I hope so.

FC

 

[Reefer_Decree]

agree

^^^ Yer I think that aswell.. sometimes reading about drugs all the time on the net might increase the craving abit.. and also learnt about drugs or methods of use i would never of known without it, But at the end of the day. id rather be an informed drug user rather than one not knowing what they really doing

 

[absent minded]

i dont understand why some of you guys are getting mad and personally attacking people who are religious or working a program in AA. i'm not trying to offend anyone, i was just explaining my thoughts behind it and trying to clear up some of your guys ideas about AA that only know AA from a brief article or a TV show

 

[sixpartseven]

No, those aren't the conditions for existance; but, something doesn't exist if there is no evidence that it does exist and the idea of it is too fantastic to be similar something that does exist.

Im agreeing with a lot of what you are saying, and I dont believe in god at all, but some of your arguments are weak.

Just because there is no evidence that something does exist, does NOT mean there is evidence that it doesnt exist.

I dont like the NA program. It is a religious program trying to disguise themselves as being non-religious to attract members. I dont see why its so important to them, its not like the more members they have the more money they get because its non-profit. I feel they look more like a deceiving cult when they try to hide it. If it was more open about its religious standings, I think it would attract more of the right types of members and be a more successful group.

I know lots of people who gave up on NA because they felt lied to or felt like religion was forced upon them. I went for a while when I started my recovery, but I only go now if Im bored because all I hear when Im there is preaching. They actually had the balls one night to bitch at a guy for bringing the bible in with him. Its just stupid because NA, especially the group I went to, is obviously a religious group.

When they say higher power, it cant be anything other than God they are talking about. I tried to fool myself and try to find something else that could be my higher power, like the group, for instance, and it just doesnt work. Nothing besides God could have any type of significant control over you, and I dont buy into that thought either.

There are other ways to get clean that dont require NA. To me, NA has turned into a social meeting rather than a tool to recovery. No one ever discusses methods to maintaining sobriety, how they finally took the steps to get clean, or anything that would help anyone trying to quit drugs. Instead, they come there and gossip about other members, spread rumors about who is using again, and bitch jealously about their ex wives/husbands or former friends who started using again. Its a waste of time, space, and worse, energy for someone who is truly trying to get sober.

 

[Aros2k]

What a horrid rhetorical question.
There is no power higher than man.

And if you've ever attended the AA meetings then you know that your higher power can't be the government or something to do with man, it has to be some spiritual (i.e., something that doesn't exist) bullshit.

Surely you're a joke?

 

[paranoid android]

The truth is, there is extensive research showing that there is a higher occurance of "spontaneous recovery", than the success rate of AA. Meaning, you have a better chance of quitting if you eventually try on your own than never going to AA in the first place.


And to those who go to AA - LOL good luck sirs, maybe quitting bluelight would help too. rofl

Id definitely agree with you there most people who ive seen go to AA relapse so goddamn often it's not even funny. Hell the AA meeting place in my town is on the same street as a bar and ive seen people walk straight out of the AA meeting and go right to the bar and get drunk.

I quit drinking when i got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I was a complete drunk for years and i just one day got so sick of drinking that i said thats fucking it.

So i got some benzos and some opiates and detoxed at home. It wasn't easy and i still get cravings to this day but ive only had one slip up in 4 years which isn't that bad.

Unfortunately i developed a chronic pain condition not long after this and had to use opiates. But i ended up using them to help my bipolar (especially the depression aspect of it) as well. Thus i racked up quite a morphine habit and oxycodone habit as well. Im off now but im sure ill be back on it again or ill maybe just stick to codeine.

My bipolar is somewhat under control now and im not getting any major cravings for opiates so maybe it was just self medication. But all the same damn i do love opiates better then any other drugs so ya i love the high too. Plus when im on opiates i don't get cravings for alcohol and anything is better then being a drunk.

As for the whole god issue i have no problem with what anyone believes in. If it works for you fine just don't be preachy about it.

 

[Fight Club]

To me, NA has turned into a social meeting rather than a tool to recovery. No one ever discusses methods to maintaining sobriety, how they finally took the steps to get clean, or anything that would help anyone trying to quit drugs. Instead, they come there and gossip about other members, spread rumors about who is using again, and bitch jealously about their ex wives/husbands or former friends who started using again. Its a waste of time, space, and worse, energy for someone who is truly trying to get sober.

Wow. The group I attend (7:00 AM, 7 days a week) focus is entirely on experience, strength and hope; what works, what doesn't.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but if you like the program and your group has deteriorated to that degree, I would find a new group.

FC