So, What Made Me an Addict?

[Adrenochrome]

Known to whom? Man? Your reasoning is circular, my friend.

FC

Known to science. The argument is closed, it's not open for debate without new evidence that has never been presented to the scientific community.

 

[Fight Club]

I don't get the whole "your higher power could be anything" bit.

Attributing your higher power to anything other than "God" just doesn't make sense. It seems like they just stuck that in there to deflect the accusation of being religious.

I mean, it just seems like a false illusion(even more so than God)... But whatever, if it works for you, go with it.

I think you are on the right track, especially as it relates to the 12-step AA / NA philosophy. I'm pretty sure that from a practical standpoint they don't want to scare off people who don't believe in a traditional notion of GOD.

They are also very clear, however that something inanimate (your coffee cup, your stuffed animal, the door nob is not god either).

The most important point in step 2 "We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves . . ." is an acceptance that there is or that there might be a more powerful force in the universe than our own current notion of "ourselves" and that to recover we need to move beyond our own current toxic way of thinking and looking at the world.

FC

 

[Fight Club]

What a horrid rhetorical question.
There is no power higher than man.

And if you've ever attended the AA meetings then you know that your higher power can't be the government or something to do with man, it has to be some spiritual (i.e., something that doesn't exist) bullshit.

Does something not exist because you cannot see it? Touch it? If so, try holding your breath until you believe in air.

FC

 

[Fight Club]

What a horrid rhetorical question.
There is no power higher than man.

And if you've ever attended the AA meetings then you know that your higher power can't be the government or something to do with man, it has to be some spiritual (i.e., something that doesn't exist) bullshit.

GOD = Group Of Drunks. I know more than a few people who like that one, and yes, I have attended AA / NA meetings almost every day for 18 months.

And yes, go ahead and say it, cause I know its coming . . . MY BRAIN DID NEED WASHING!

FC

 

[Adrenochrome]

I think you are on the right track, especially as it relates to the 12-step AA / NA philosophy. I'm pretty sure that from a practical standpoint they don't want to scare off people who don't believe in a traditional notion of GOD.

They are also very clear, however that something inanimate (your coffee cup, your stuffed animal, the door nob is not god either).

The most important point in step 2 "We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves . . ." is an acceptance that there is or that there might be a more powerful force in the universe than our own current notion of "ourselves" and that to recover we need to move beyond our own current toxic way of thinking and looking at the world.

FC

How is accepting that a the human race is the most powerful thing(s) known (e.g., we invited super computers) have to do with discontinueing use of a drug.

Nothing, I've quit heroin before and I'm quitting cigarettes today, without the need for any dillusional (i.e., spiritual) thinking, just some determination, and some productive distractions.

 

[Adrenochrome]

Does something not exist because you cannot see it? Touch it? If so, try holding your breath until you believe in air.

FC

No, those aren't the conditions for existance; but, something doesn't exist if there is no evidence that it does exist and the idea of it is too fantastic to be similar something that does exist.

 

[Fight Club]

See attached image from Hubble telescope. Think something inferior to you "created" it or that it just "happened" by accident?

FC

 

[LuGoJ]

See attached image from Hubble telescope. Think something inferior to you "created" it or that it just "happened" by accident?

FC

everyone knows that humans created the universe, nature had nothing to do with it

 

[phr]

I think you are on the right track, especially as it relates to the 12-step AA / NA philosophy. I'm pretty sure that from a practical standpoint they don't want to scare off people who don't believe in a traditional notion of GOD.

They are also very clear, however that something inanimate (your coffee cup, your stuffed animal, the door nob is not god either).

The most important point in step 2 "We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves . . ." is an acceptance that there is or that there might be a more powerful force in the universe than our own current notion of "ourselves" and that to recover we need to move beyond our own current toxic way of thinking and looking at the world.

FC

I have no problem with people using God or religion to better themselves. I just don't get the whole "greater power" thing unless it specifically refers to a God. How could you think that anything other than an omnipotent being is greater than you?

If you do follow that mantra and use something other than God, please enlighten me.

 

[Adrenochrome]

Humans have the technology (well i guess we're not the best at fusion at the moment) and potential to learn how to create such things. There's nothing magical about stars. That telegraph is a testamate () to our power.

 

[narco anonomous]

Does something not exist because you cannot see it? Touch it? If so, try holding your breath until you believe in air.

FC

Ummm yes, you actually can see air Mod Edit:refrain from name calling, do it again and get warnings, when a bubble floats to the surface or gets exhaled under water that is air, it's a gas so it's harder to see, but it is still quite visible. What the hell is that teliscope image suposed to be??? Is that suposed to be the hand of god? It looks like a floater to me. Either way not proof of god. Want proof there is no god? Christians were made in his image, and they are retarded. How can an infalible being spawn such complete A holes, judging everyone and being judged only by god. I hate living in the bible belt, creationism is stupid. and higher power sounds like a cult mantra, Greater gooood.

 

[5-HT2]

AA/NA have an essentially Judeo-Christian philosophy that is cloaked in nonsectarian rhetoric to avoid scaring off those who do not adhere to an Abrahamic religion. If you look into the organization's history, it's continuing religious foundations become clear.

Aside from the religious aspects from the organization, there remain several basic tenets, some of them mentioned in the original article, that encourage the addict to substitute the support group for their drug addiction. A philosophy that requires religious support group attendance as an essential part of "recovery" often diverts the focus from learning important coping skills that do not feed back into the organization.

Almost every AA/NA meeting the state forced me to attend was begun and/or finished by the Lord's Prayer.

 

[LuGoJ]

AA/NA have an essentially Judeo-Christian philosophy that is cloaked in nonsectarian rhetoric to avoid scaring off those who do not adhere to an Abrahamic religion. If you look into the organization's history, it's continuing religious foundations become clear.

Aside from the religious aspects from the organization, there remain several basic tenets, some of them mentioned in the original article, that encourage the addict to substitute the support group for their drug addiction. A philosophy that requires religious support group attendance as an essential part of "recovery" often diverts the focus from learning important coping skills that do not feed back into the organization.

Almost every AA/NA meeting the state forced me to attend was begun and/or finished by the Lord's Prayer.

I guess AA meetings are very different from state to state, in NYC when i would go to support my mother they just finished with the serenity prayer minus the "God" at the beginning.

 

[absent minded]

I have no problem with people using God or religion to better themselves. I just don't get the whole "greater power" thing unless it specifically refers to a God. How could you think that anything other than an omnipotent being is greater than you?

If you do follow that mantra and use something other than God, please enlighten me.

you don't think that forces of nature such as hurricane, tornado, the ocean.. are not greater than you? what about the universe, or the entire planet earth? what about a group of people. a lot of people in AA use the entire room full of people in the AA meeting as a power greater than yourself.


it seems like alot of you guys are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[phr]

I don't think they mean it in that way.

But, Ok, let's go with a hurricane and the 2nd step: "a power greater than myself can restore me to unity."

How the hell is believing that about a hurricane going to restore me to unity. Also, how are you going to apply that greater thing(besides God) to steps 5, 6, and 7?

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

Again, it just doesn't make sense to me to use anything other than God. If it has worked for you, tell me how.

 

[E-llusion]

you don't think that forces of nature such as hurricane, tornado, the ocean.. are not greater than you? what about the universe, or the entire planet earth? what about a group of people. a lot of people in AA use the entire room full of people in the AA meeting as a power greater than yourself.


it seems like alot of you guys are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I doubt people are arguing for the sake of it, more likely because they feel so strongly about the issue.

Yes all those things you mentioned have greater (physical) power than single human being, however they do not CONTROL YOU or YOUR ACTIONS.

The assumption in AA seems to be that you must surrender to greater power (ie God) because it controls your life whether you like it or not, if you surrender then your life will be better, if you fight it , you will struggle (aka drug addiction, and other 'bad' things will happen, etc) .

The comment in the article about epileptics being treated by preachers in 18th Century was dead on, why do we try to cure addiction with the same approach ?

I think we have evolved as human race way beyond such primitive approaches to treating an actual medical/psychological condition , don't you think ?

 

[Arzi]

How depressing

 

[aanallein]

Good for you. Thousands, no, Millions of others turn to a higher power and succeed using that technique. It doesn't make them any worse or less than you.

If humans are the 'most advanced' organism then why are we fucking ourselves to death? We are rapidly destroying our own paradise. That doesn't sound very advanced to me.

You say that God does not exist and that its proven. Sorry no. Have you ever seen a million dollars? no. But it exists. The lack of direct physical evidence does not imply the absence of something. Try harder tough guy.

 

[absent minded]

The assumption in AA seems to be that you must surrender to greater power (ie God) because it controls your life whether you like it or not, if you surrender then your life will be better, if you fight it , you will struggle (aka drug addiction, and other 'bad' things will happen, etc) .

actually the assumption in AA is that you, as an addict, obviously couldnt control your life the way it was going. when you tried to do it your way, running the show, it fucked up your life and thats why you came to AA. so the idea is that you start working gods will in your life , not your own will. your own will brought you to your knees and ruined your life, no matter how hard you tried. when you give up your will to god, it takes alot of the pressure and frustrations of life away. when you get all caught up in your self will, it usually leads to problems.

so the general idea is that you stop trying to run the show and just stop stressing over small things. and no i dont mean just give up and expect things to fall into your lap. what i mean is take things in stride. dont get so butt hurt when you dont get the promotion you wanted so bad at your job. when you get hung up on things and try so fucking hard to get things your way every time, the frustration will eventually cause you to use drugs or drink. its definitely not that god always has control over your life and makes bad things happen to you because you dont obey him lol.

i dont really think i'm explaining things well enough, but i tried.. and i guess you guys are right about "a power greater than yourself". i'm not claiming to be an expert on AA, but i've had some experience in the program and its definitely an interesting life experience. i'm not super religious but i'm always up to trying new things. after 3 years of being a hopeless drug addict i've tried to sober up many many times with no success but i've been on this AA kick for almost 4 months now completely clean and sober.

 

[college_dropout]

The all powerful flying spaghetti monster freed me from my battle with addiction.

He can do the same for you....

....but only if you believe in him.