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Bupe So I just started suboxone treatment, and I already have questions about getting off

S

SweetTooth83

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
5
So I had a post previously asking if anyone could refer me to a good suboxone doctor in Chicago, and of course everyone hit me with "try searching the mega thread" etc. etc. and my post was closed by a moderator. I wasn't so much looking for a listing of doctors, but first hand experiences with actual suboxone doctors in IL.

blah blah blah. search search search. call call call. I found a doctor half a mile from home that is pretty cheap (in a real fucked up hood that most chicagoans cop their goods from anyway).

Saw the doctor and she set me up with a 7 day script of 8mg to hold me over until my visit next week. My appointment lasted about 10 minutes. I was full of questions that the doctor (and I'm sure most of your doctors too) was too stupid to answer. I made a quick remark about starting to taper down next week and got a "woah woah hold it now. you're just gonna keep start using again. I think were gonna have you on it for 3 months".

*1st off- NO. I'm not that stupid. I know how addictive suboxone is and I absolutely do not want to get addicted to this shit. I want to use it as a detox and not a long term maintenance tool because I like to fuck off.

*2nd off- I lost my job 2 weeks ago. I had nothing in savings and I made a wise decision to use my last few bucks to try and get clean. It cost me $100 for 14 pills and I'm not gonna be able to afford this much longer anyway...

Prior to this I was putting a jab up my nose every two days. Which pretty much completely replaced my drinking/weed smoking/casual pill eating.

Day#1 I popped an 8mg (because I knew I would need a lot to make the swap) and my symptoms were 75% better. Later on that night I ate 4mg and got a headache. yet somehow was able to sleep with no help at a normal time.

Day#2 Absolute depression. I sat in the exact same spot on my couch all day feeling like my brain was fried. I had been smoking weed constantly which helps but for some reason wears out quick. Last night I read that the first day switching to sub was always difficult, which i did not know. so I thought I would try taking it easy on the meds. Ate 4mg. Got rid of WD's, but 2 hours later I craving H like crazy, so I popped the other 4mg half. All better. Still had a fried brain. Later in the evening I popped another 4mg followed by some xanax and I felt much much better. I also ate my first meal in months.

Day#3. I wake up feeling kinda sore. I popped the 8mg, but then passed back out! I don't know if they fully dissolved as there was nothing left in my mouth and very very very minimal lemon lime taste. So for good measure I pop another 4mg. I feel fucking great! I actually stood up out of bed immediately instead of hanging around for a few hours. My face had color in it for the first time in close to a year. I feel AMAZING.

8mg in the morning and another 4 in the evening seem to be doing good for me. I've been too pussy to try and stretch it out YET (on day at a time here).

So. I've read A LOT about this drug. I know how addictive it is. I know that a small dose will get rid of the WDs, and a higher dose will give me enough opiate(or whatever is in it) to not even crave heroin.

Now I am obviously going to go against my doctors wishes. Hell, if I had had much help in my original post I would just move on to another doctor.
I had a friend who use to shoot massive amount of dope for a long time. Got on sub for a few. then kicked the sub and now is doing GREAT.

I realize the doctor wants to keep me on such a high dosage for a long time so that my mind no longer craves the H and I can move on.

Now I am not too worried about relapsing on H. I had severed my contacts and hope to never touch it again. I will eat a pill here and there, but the main thing I am running from is the H. I hope to not relapse due to the fact that I cant get any dope, I don't want to be hooked on dope, and when ever I get the cravings i will just smoke weed and mellow the fuck out.

So this is my master plan. Go through my week long prescription. I figure the first 5-7 days of H WD are the worse. I might even try lowering my dosage after the 5th-6th day. See my doctor next thursday. Tell her how i feel,and get my 2nd week script.

Then this is where i hope to make a break for it. I am hoping to stop using suboxone in my second week. I am not sure if this works, but I am hoping to slip through the back door when my actual Heroin dependency is gone and right before I get addicted to suboxone.

The question is (and trust me I've searched the mega thread, if it's in there somewhere then I am an idiot who could not find it)...

Has anyone else has experience just DETOXING with the sub and not using it as a long term maintenance. Would be it be a good idea to just completely skip my dose on day 10 and smoke enough weed/drink myself unconscious for a few days after to avoid any SUB WD's? would they be present after 10 days?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

To the mods And if this thread brings up some new useful info please merge it to the mega thread, but also please give people a chance to see this thread and hopefully chime in with some good info.
 
I really hope that someone comes forward with advice because I am interested in hearing it as well! Good luck to you and please keep me posted on your progress regardless.
 
sure. I might log my progress everyday with the suboxone. It might be useful to someone else, and since I only plan on using it for a few days it shouldn't pester the board that bad.
 
Just out of interest, why do you think you know more than a doctor who has done 7+ years of med school?

It's pretty obvious that you are addicted to opiates, so you are really living in La La Land if you think you can just quit cold turkey and be fine. The whole point of suboxone is to get you away from scoring everytime you need a fix. You make out like you will get addicted to suboxone and it would be a worse predicament; you are addicted to opiates no matter how you look at it. So its your choice whether you get your opiates scripted,or from the streets.

Do you really think you can break a dope habit with a 3 day detox. Seems extremely unreasonable to me, because next time you feel like shit and dont want to get out of bed, what will get you through the day then? It'll be heroin, and any denial of that is just the addict talking.

Stick with the program, as it has helped a lot more people than your cold turkey in 3 days method, I guarentee
 
Benzos will make detox much easier. In the 2-3 years I have been on bupe only 7 days of it was off subs. I think the best thing is to stay on it until you feel concious enough you wont relapse. Wait long enough you forget what getting high feels like.

My problem was that when I got down to low doses of sub i started getting a really good buzz from it reminding me what getting high feels like.
 
djsim said:
Just out of interest, why do you think you know more than a doctor who has done 7+ years of med school?

It's pretty obvious that you are addicted to opiates, so you are really living in La La Land if you think you can just quit cold turkey and be fine. The whole point of suboxone is to get you away from scoring everytime you need a fix. You make out like you will get addicted to suboxone and it would be a worse predicament; you are addicted to opiates no matter how you look at it. So its your choice whether you get your opiates scripted,or from the streets.

Do you really think you can break a dope habit with a 3 day detox. Seems extremely unreasonable to me, because next time you feel like shit and dont want to get out of bed, what will get you through the day then? It'll be heroin, and any denial of that is just the addict talking.

Stick with the program, as it has helped a lot more people than your cold turkey in 3 days method, I guarentee
Click to expand...

Totally agree. 5 years ago I got on Subutex from a 1 year heroin habit, and never looked back. Sure, it sucks that I have to take subutex everyday, and I do struggle with this, but come on, certain aspects of my life would not be in order if it weren't for subutex stopping me from driving to the ghetto to score. Addiction to bup is the price to pay for "getting your life back." 3-day detox will do nothing for you, you were weak before the detox, and you will be weak after the detox. You need to separate yourself from the lifestyle.
 
I'm no master when it comes to buprenorphine, but I see the general idea you're getting at, and may have some advice.

It seems like you're ready to quit. You've realized you cant keep your habit up, and have the urge to come completely off opiates all together.

If you have the personal strength within, I would recommend a quick taper. Create a schedule, or collaborate with someone here on one, and STICK TO IT! Taking more than what you've alotted yourself will take all effectiveness from it.

If youre truly ready to quit, a taper should be relatively easy to follow.

Good luck!
 
I have personally found that detoxing with suboxone at levels of 4-8mg daily for 7-14 days followed by complete discontinuation produces little to no painful acute withdrawals. PAWS style depression and insomnia is to be expected for up to a month or so. Note that every time you re-use this method or if you go back and forth unsuccessfully, the suboxone will not work as well, and you will generally become dependent faster. You CAN quit after a week or so on subs if you want, but don't expect miracles. Relapse is a bitch.
 
You MIGHT get lucky if you're able to only use sub for the short term, but if you've been an addict for years, quitting cold turkey isn't going to be easy. The withdrawal from suboxone after using it for 10 days will be... moderate/mild. It will certainly be easier than quitting a full agonist drug like heroin, but I doubt it will be painless. If you can get down to using 2-4mg/day for a couple days before you quit after only10-14 of using, then I think you stand a good chance quitting cold turkey and actually following through and enduring it.
If you have a job and other responsibilities it's going to be tough for at least a few days, possibly longer depending on how you handle it psychologically. You can expect to experience at least some acute withdrawal. As to the severity and duration you'll experience, it's completely relative. Some symptoms can be managed by other non-opioid drugs. We have many threads on that topic so I won't get into it.
The lower dose you're on the last few days before you quit, the less painful it will be. Don't jump from like 8mg to 0mg and expect to be fine. We can't give you any specific numbers/stats. but after you've used suboxone for several months/years, the acute withdrawal can last up to 2 weeks or longer. If you're only going to use it for a couple weeks then the w/d might not be as long, however the severity may be worse. Try it and see, but make sure you keep in contact with your sub doctor. I believe that going back on sub is better than relapsing on anything else in your situation. Maintenance isn't ideal I guess, it sucks to have to be addicted to anything, but depending on your doctor and whether or not you have insurance for your prescription (and possibly even doctor visits), Sub can be much more affordable than copping dope. Money is an issue for a lot of people who are addicted to opiates. For a lot of people, the amount they spend on sub treatment is small in comparison to their previous habit.
Good luck.
 
ive found that as soon as a quit usinf subs, i got straight back to H no matter how confident i feel. i was just like you, still am thinking about it, but i cant afford another relapse... in addition, my dealer lives a half mile from my house
 
I think doing a quick detox off of suboxone like what you want isn't the greatest idea. I've been on sub for nearly 3 months and my life has greatly improved.

When your using heroin and other opiates and are hooked on them your life ends up revolving around them and it's all you think about (at least thats how it was for me and everyone i've talked to). Being on sub can be difficult because at first its hard to have time in which your not thinking about opiates. It's important to get your life back in order and have your days planned out so when you go off of sub, there's not a lot of free time for you to have. free time can be dangerous when you have too much of it.
 
^ yeh, this is why suboxone is worth the money, even for the ridiculous prices americans pay. As I said, suboxone has got a lot more people clean than a 3 day detox. Also, you can technically stay on suboxone and get your shit together for years... there's no real harm except to the wallet. But given the altervative, its not a stretch to say you'd be paying more for 1) the opiate of choice and 2) lost revenue from not being able to work
I've never really been a hardcore opiate addict, but logically all signs point towards suboxone to get clean. Of course, its never that simple though...
 
Please post what you end up doing because I would love to hear if this works for you.
 
My problem with your "back door" master plan is that if you are addicted to opiates, you're dependent on them no matter the medication. You have to do one of two things, you can either taper down or experience withdrawals. There is no jumping off after the H tolerance is gone but before the Sub dependence sets in. It does not work like that. By starting the Sub, you have effectively swapped your H problem for a buprenorphine problem and one way or another you're going to have to detox and feel some withdrawals.
 
my experience using subox short term

ill cut to the chase... hope this helps, i am a biotechnology venture capitalist (and now, for the last year, a dope-user), and anyway i have a shrink who prescribed me subox. today is day 1 of hopefully many happy, healthy, working days ahead!!!

its probably the 4th time i've started on subox and it obviously is helpful but it can also be troublesome. the first time, with the help of my loving gf, i used the subox to quit dope! got off the subox pretty quickly, probably sub 2 weeks of subox, and all was rosey.

then i slipped up. and after a few months of burning a hole in my wallet i got back on the subox. this time, i used it for all of 2 days before i thought ,'hey, wouldnt it be stupid if i got some H and used it on top of the subox.. ' and i slipped up again! this is something i need to address specificially below. its important that what happened to me was a false sense of security from the subox.

third time i used subox, i started too soon and ended up bent over for 2 days in agony at my moms house, precipitated withdrawal, SOOO horrible i wish it on none of you. and after 2 days i decided f it i need help, so i turned to my good friend dope to make me feel normal.

so now is the 4th time. or fuk it maybe the fifth haha. its been a horrible year. can't wait to explain these scars to my grandkids. so im at my desk today and i just took the subox. and voila, bout an hour and half later im feeling ok enough to write you (I was gonna jump out of the office and run home before i got a grip).

my point is this. subox is amazing, it makes it possible to work and to live, and i think its probably easier to get off of than methadone (though i don't know for certain, never been on methadone). but it will give you a false sense. i was sooo eager to get off the subox and get my life back, i used too small a dose in my 4th or 5th day, and i got cravings and used H. my point is you gotta use the suboxone to your advantage, stay on it long enough, not fuk around with it. there's some point on the continuum where you can get off the suboxone without pain, and you can keep yourself off the H and out of H w/ds long enough to get you through.

god bless. as someone who never really bought into god, i can tell you that it helps me a lot to turn to something bigger than me in this moment.

my plan is to use subox for 2 full weeks! two fullll weeks, and from there we'll see where to go. ive been putting the cart before the horse for a year and it isn't working, so hopefully i can do it this time.
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hey i just detoxed my self after being a junkie for 5 years n a big junkie i was using $300 a day worth 4 the last 2 years dont ask how i have the money but heres my story sorry im not good with punctuation so bear with me so i took a 2 week cruise 3 weeks ago just 2 not be in nyc trying 2 get clean cuz it never works so i took enough suboxone with me for the first ten days but i didnt take as much as u so it will be over faster i rather suffer less n it b over faster so the 1st day i took 4mg in the morning n 2mg at nite same for the 2nd n 3rd day from there on to the 10th day i just kept taking less n less im not sure exactly how much but just smaller pieces obviously its not a joyride from there but i got like 12 days off of subs now n other then my sleep n alittle stomach pain i feel great hope i helped
 
thanks for reply

fuk dope is so hard to get off of, i really am thinking bout using and its only been a few hours. anyway everyone be strong!
 
Yeah I've used subs like OP talked about; as a short-term solution to opiate WD : a detox aid basically. Sure it worked just fine, and kicking the Suboxone was even pretty damn easy if i do say so myself. But I was right back out there shootin dope no more than a month after i stopped the subs...
 
If you plan on only using the subs for a couple weeks or whatever, and your goal is to get clean, I really don't understand why you don't just go cold turkey from whatever your DOC happens to be. It does not seem to me that the way you plan on using the subs would be helpful or useful in accomplishing your goal. The way you are planning on doing this, you will definitely go through some major withdrawals from the sub; most people are advised to plan a long, slow taper if getting clean, rather than maintenance, is the goal. The amount of time you have allotted will not allow for any slow, gradual taper whatsoever and the withdrawals will be every bit as intense as if you were coming off any "regular" opiate. In my opinion, this sounds like a waste of time and money.

I really hope it works out for you, but it sounds like you may be setting yourself up for fail.
 
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