SNRI+Ephedrine and Fentanyl+Tagament

[quale]

So I have found some studies (I can give cites but don't have thme on me right now) suggesting that essentially the reason is meth is better than ephedrine is b/c it is much better at releasing dopamine than norepinepherine. However there is now on the market a SNRI (Re something can't remeber) which is about as easy to order online from pharms as prozac is. So I am suggesting that such a product would make a fuckton of ephedrine act like methamphetamine. Of course it would probably be more expensive in the long run given the quantity you would need but it is a cool experiment. If no one else tries it I will probably give it a try in a couple months, for curiosity if no other reason.
Secondly it appears that fentanyl is metabolized by CYP3A4. As Tagament=cimetidine is an inhibitor of this enzyme (grapefruit just is as well but I think it might only work in the guy which isn't relevant to patch/injection) so maybe so fentanyl fans out there might want to give this a try (remember cimetidine has a fairly short half life so you might have to dose many times).
Working to make your high better.

 

[fairnymph]

By SNRI do you mean "serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor" (i.e. Effexor/venlafaxine) or do you mean something like 'selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor' (for which the correct term would be 'NARI - NorAdrenaline Reuptake Inhibitor). Examples of NARIs would be reboxetine (E(n)dronax) and mianserin (I believe that's the name).
I have been on both a SNRI and a NARI so I can tell you what stims are like on these meds...
with the SNRI, cocaine was potentiated (slightly -- and more than anything it lasted much longer, maybe even twice as long). Amphetamines and ephedrine were slightly weaker than usual.
with the NARI, cocaine, coffee, and ritalin all produced unpleasant headaches. The stimulant effects of amphetamines was almost entirely blocked (in fact I fell asleep an hour after taking a medium size dose of good meth while on a NARI). Also the come down off stims while taking the NARI was absolutely HORRENDOUS...it simply wasn't worth getting high on stims.
My personal theory is that it is NE and not dopamine that is responsible for the alert/wakeful/stimulated feeling of stimulants. Dopamine is more of the body high and euphoria IMO.
Also, on the NARI, I did not get any "rushes" or "tingling" like I normally do with stims.
This is why I am not taking the NARI, even though it was a great antidepressant (like NO side effects)...the only drug I like these days is meth and well I couldn't get off from meth on my NARI.

 

[quale]

No I meant a selective norepinephereine reuptake inhibitor like reboxetine (the name I couldn't remember). SNRI was the notation I saw on the net...I think I should have said SNARI but whatever.
Your results on amphetamines were precisecly what I was suggesting. The idea was to allow the use of lesser stimulants for the euphoriant effect without too much stimulant effect. This is after all what stops one from really enjoying entire bottles of epehedrine. You should experience less jumpiness. If you actually have amphetamine or meth unless for experimental purposes you want to do just a truly massive amount there is no good reason.
While I agree it is the NE responsible for the sort of superalert feeling it seems DAT knockout mice don't have their sleep cycle affected by stims. In other words that edgy superalert feeling (which often grows too strong) may be NE mediated while wakefullness/euphoria are DA mediated.
Your SNRI effects seem really weird...but then again it seems these have really weird actions.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/venlafaxine.html
Apparently effexor like most SSRIs is also a weak dopamine reuptake inhibitor...if this effects it I have no idea, I would like to see the various affinities published somehwere.

 

[zorn]

SNRI is often used to refer to either. We should make it clear which we're referring to, but let's not make up our own semantic rules and get snippy about them.... it's aggravating to see people get lambasted for using 'ice' to refer to meth instead of 4-MAR, when that's a perfectly valid slang.
There was a thread in E Discussion where I posted a bunch of refs on DA and wakefulness... in general these systems are complex enought that I think it's a big mistake to attribute alertness just to NE -- prob it's an interaction of both systems. DA is definitely involved; see the E thread and quale's info.

 

[zorn]

More importantly:
1) quale, are you sure that ephedrine releases NE via recversing the its reuptake transporter? This seems likely, but if it works in some other way, then your idea wouldn't work.
2) Beta-blockers work wonders combined with ephedrine... completely blocked the heartrate effects off ~80mg ephedrine for me. I plan on trying this next time I do IV coke, I hate that on-the-verge-of-death feeling...

 

[fairnymph]

Effexor (venlafaxine) is *not* a straight up SSRI. It does inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, but not selectively.
As for reboxetine, I doubt that ephedrine would be at all pleasurable while taking this AD. I also don't think it would be very good at making you feel more alert. As I said in my previous post, NONE of the stims I tried made me alert while I was taking reboxetine. And in fact all of the stims gave me headaches and made me feel shitty. So I don't think that reboxetine (or another NARI) would work for your purposes.

 

[quale]

Ohh I misunderstood I thought they just made you feel shitty when you where on the other stuff not the SNARI (robexitine).
Hmm...that is really weird.
Yes I am sure it releases NA. It is possible that it is so inefficent at all of this b/c it doesn't get significantly transported through the reuptake transporter and hence its primary action is through diffusion or something.
Well I have to write a paper on this shit soon, I will look through the cites there to see how strong the evidence is for what method

 

[Hellfiregurl]

In response to the concept of combining drugs with ephedrine, I decided it would be interesting to combine it with Prozac. I must say made me quite a talkative hippy, although I did have the on the edge of death feeling zorn mentioned when the prozac wore off. I haven't ever done meth, but from what I have read it is similar at least. I also tried the same experiment with ritalin once, it was pretty similar. Maybe it would be good to try these combos with beta blockers as well?
[ 02 May 2002: Message edited by: Hellfiregurl ]