Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*

j22 said:
So one might say he's falling short of his post quota?

%)
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Shortest, simplest, most smart assed yet accurate statement made throughout the thread. How dare he take away mod spots or award mod spots based on participation if he hasn't even logged in, in that many days or is never aware of shit unless it trickles up the heirarchy.

(edit- is anyone going to make catch aware of this thread or are we just going to wait indefinately for him to reply?)
 
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But tell me, how many do you think were unfairly demoted?
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After my post quota was considered 'too low' by Admin standards to retain my position as Music & DJ's mod, I wrote a (rather long) letter of appeal to C-22 ensuring future commitments and giving reason for lack of past ones.

The appeal was denied.

I write long, detailed FAQs and good, quality responses. I don't piss around replying to every "Do U Like my tUrntables? LOL" thread.

Apparently that made me a bad mod. Fine, but I would have liked to be informed personally (via e-mail or PM) that this was a problem prior to my demotion - ie. 'Post more or suffer my wrath! - C-22'

As a result, I felt that I did something wrong, or that I was negligent. I felt humiliated in front of my peers. I've mod'ed 5 forums in my 5 years at Bluelight. I've always stepped down by my own volition. I've never been demoted.

I would like to see reform.
 
Probably the most tangible problem in the past year, a point Kyk's post raises, is the brain drain that BL has experienced. Formerly, the premium on this site was placed on knowledge and expertise. This has given way to a reliance on post quantity. Because of this, explanations and discussions have gotten shorter. One sentence posts are now the norm. Moderators who would spend half an hour or more writing a detailed reply or a FAQ that could be used and referred to over and over are no longer as valuable to the community as someone who keeps his or her quota.

It is sad to see that personal feelings have been hurt, but the greater crime is that BL's knowledge base has suffered. The lack of accommodation and unceremonious dumping of people who in some cases had advanced clinical and life experience in fields related to harm reduction is appalling. Whereas the staff used to be mostly comprised of experts in drug-related matters who had experience with just about every situation, there are now only a handful who have been relegated to post quota positions.

I am extremely grateful for all the time and energy skydancer has put into this board -- and I would always accept a less-than-stellar Bluelight over a no-Bluelight. I am also grateful to Catch for the time he has put in and giving me the chance to be a mod. However, it is exceedingly obvious from the knowledge drain and from the general nastiness in the last year that a change needs to be made. Bluelight should not be ruled by absenteeism. The moment you remove yourself from the very interaction that perpetuates the board's existence (posting and discussion) is the moment you are no longer part of the community and its concerns.
 
My 2 cents

I've been around BL for a reasonably long time. In that time, I've seen a lot of people pissed off and a lot of people take shots at the staff. That's not unusual. What is unusual is the amount of discontent I see today and even more so, who that discontent is coming from. A lot of the oldest, most respected members of the board, a lot of former mods and admins, are not real happy with BL these days. Some have left entirely, keeping in touch with the community they left by other means. Everyone has people they don't get along with. But, there does appear to be a common denominator here... that is C-22. I did not understand this anomosity until I was recently privy to some conversations that occured between C-22 and others. I must say, it does appear that some lessons in politeness, humility and respect are in order. I don't have anything personally against C-22, but when so many people are taking issue with a person's leadership style, it would seem prudent that a change occur. I won't say what that change should be, but I do believe that a change is necessary before BL hemorages (sp) any more of the people who made BL.

Jus my 2 cents
 
<<What are the chances of persuading the decision makers to adopt term limits for ALL Admins/Mods, or at least some form of periodic retention/review procedure, in a written BL administrative code?

If, say, an Admin/Mod was subject to a year-long term of service with the option to be retained for another term upon a majority vote of all Admins/Mods near the end of his/her term, wouldn't that resolve the problem? That would also address the question of succession, as it would put the BL administrative community on sufficient notice of the need to replace anyone who declined to stand for retention, or for that matter someone who needed to be replaced for whatever reason.

Enforceability of such a code might be a problem, but at least it would lend some legitimacy to the notion that the BL administrative hierarchy is responsive to the community.

NOTE: Again, not knowing the inner administrative workings of BL, I apologize if my suggestion has already been considered and shot down long ago.>>

I think the voting idea is great, in principle, especially for mods; it would make them all fully accountable to the regulars, and keep them on their best behavior. However, I could see it being abused--think of a forum like CEP, which really only has about one or two dozen frequent posters; how easy would it be for someone with an axe to grind to start up a private smear campaign to oust a mod they don't like? For that matter, they could also try to elect someone relatively unpopular at the expense of those who don't give any input. Or someone could be elected simply because they're popular, rather than for any personal talents or ability. That might require some thought.

For admins, I think only senior mods and other admins should have a say, and act using polls or thread discussion as a guide. For instance, ask everyone in a thread how they feel about Joe Blow, then based on the public response--which they are under no obligation to follow--and their own conscience and judgment, they determine what to do about Joe Blow.
 
day_for_night said:
i'm pretty sure everyone knows where i stand on this issue. just thought i'd add my name to the list in this thread...
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you can add my signature too. anyone with access to the staff forum over the past 2 years can probably infer my position as well. i would like to say first and foremost that my complaints, dissatisfaction, and general disillusionment regarding bluelight are all the product of a genuine love of what this website was. bluelight means a lot to me, and if it didn't i wouldn't have bothered expending energy posting, moderating, and eventually participating in the call for a regime change.

the lack of communication, respect, and transparency not only erode the sustainability of this board, but they destroy any sense of community that had been built here. in my opinion, that is what made this board great: community. not post count quotas, forum gerrymandering, or closed-door decision making.

many of the new policies that have been decreed from upon high have only served to remove the human face from this board's volunteers. moderators are told in no uncertain terms that they are expendable and can be replaced at a moment's notice. it's not the kind of attitude that supports any kind of lasting morale, and frankly it feels like a slap in the face for people who have poured countless hours into trying to make this website a great resource for people.

for all the people who dismiss some of the other boards as places to "badmouth bluelight and its volunteers", you've got it all wrong. all these other boards are is an attempt to regain some of that lost sense of community. i think you'd be surprised to find out how much love most of these alienated "detractors" actually have for their memories of bluelight.

it's a shame that people have to go elsewhere to find it, because that sense of community and feeling like you were part of something you could be proud of was all right here.
 
Many people have expressed what's gone wrong eloquently in this thread. I agree with all of them. The long and short of it is that Catch 22 has fucked things up bigtime and needs to go. I have no personal issues with him, he's been polite and friendly in the small amount of communication I've had with him as a mod, but at the end of the day bad actions speak a hell of a lot louder than nice words.

For my opinions on the EDD situation which kicked this off see here:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=2741464#post2741464

If any mods havn't yet then please see the threads by dr seuss entitled "EDD Poll?" and "not answered!" for the EDD mods' feelings on how we've been treated.

I'd like to express my gratitude to xtcxtc for his support for the users and mods of EDD, his communication with me regarding what response we could make, and his decision to make a stand over the issue.

The amount of constructive and intelligent discussion in this thread is impressive and makes me believe that Catch's removal could well be just the catalyst this site needs to move it out of its current slump and continue (and hopefully improve upon) the amazing work it's done in the past.

Finally:

xtcxtc said:
from an email from a staff member several days ago >>

In my perfect democracy a graduated/proportional vote (according to level of responsibility) would be taken as to whether C-22 should remain in power :

3 votes per admin, 2 votes per Senior Mod and 1 vote per Moderator.

I bet he'd be voted off the island by a landslide. ;)
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What's to stop such a thread being started right now in the staff forum? As Catch seems to be so fond of statistics why not collate some for him to peruse when he deigns to drop by?
 
I've been around for a long time. Since nearly the beginning. I wasn't a part of the MDMA Clearinghouse, or bluelight.net, but I managed to jump aboard bluelight.ru pretty early on. When I joined the board, we were 500 or so openly PLUR candy-raving e-tards. There were 3 forums (Bluelight Discussion, Meetups, and one other I can't remember off hand) and 2 Admins - Jase and Skydancer, and a bunch of kids who wanted to know exactly what we were doing to our bodies.

Certainly a lot has changed in the last 6ish years, and I've watched a lot of it from the inside as well as out. I wont get into a long boring story about "how things were when I was an admin", cause frankly, none of it is relevant to the situation. The Bluelight I admined for can hardly even be considered the same board. But one of the things that has always made this board great is the passion of its users to want to help nurture the board and help it flourish and grow. When I was on the admin/mod team, and by the looks of it even now, there was always a large and ever expanding pool of very intense, passionate, opinionated, and outspoken people that wanted to help this board. Some of us probably cared a little too much and were a bit too outspoken *glances around innocently*, but we were all constantly sharing our ideas and thoughts.

But one thing that still seems to be the same, after all these years, still hasn't been mentioned, which sort of surprises me. That being Skydancers near complete lack of participation and discussion, and almost universal disregard for the opinions of his user base and staff. This has always been the Jase and Skydancer show. They've always done what they wanted to do, regardless of the opinions of others. Sure, they put on the illusion of asking for input from time to time, and yeah, Catch has replaced Jase, but it's still the same dog and pony show. The only time I can ever remember skydancer truly entertaining the opinions of the staff was when, at the time, xtcxtc wasn't going to fund the board the following year, and we had to actilvely try and find ways to come up with funding for the board.

Catch 22 isn't the main problem here. Granted, he's a big problem, and he has been for a very long time now (There were "discussions" right before the board launched 3.0 to bring me back as an admin just to counter Catch 22. I guess I was the sort of Anything Goes, Loose Cannon the parties concerned wanted around to speak the mind of the Anti-C22 movement. Or something. It never ended up happening though. Big surprise.), but he's just a number-crunching buearocratic yes man. If you get C22 out of the position, the main problem is still going to be there - that being: Skydancer doesnt give a shit about you or what you think. Plain and simple. Until you can get him to *care about the community*, and actively participate, then the core problem is always going to be the same. There's no denying that Walt has put in a lot of work for this site, and something I've always wondered was, "Why?" Maybe EZ-Test is secretly supporting him or somethings. Who knows. (Yes, that last bit was sarcasm).

This presents an interesting challenge though, cause it *is* his website, and the end result will always be whatever he wants it to be. Alan or Reed said it best when they said, to paraphrase, that people don't change. I don't entirely agree with that, but it's been almost 6 years since the board came to be, and it's always been this way.

Get Brian out of his position. That's clearly the first and most drastic step in making a change. But don't forget the underlying problem behind this whole debacle. If nothing is done about that, then everything will just continue to be the same in the end. At the very least, at least get him to go on record saying that this will always be a "My way or the highway" administration. At least then everyone will know where he, and they, stand, and won't have to waste so much of thier time and effort on useless things.
 
I have been reading this thread since it started, but have yet to type a response to what I think. Im going to attempt to write something about the subject, even though I dont believe my opinion really matters.

I have been a member of this site since Dec. of 02 (yes, i had another s/n, like everyone else, which I can still log into, but dont choose too, b/c I was a stupid ass back then, and maybe still am). I remember most of the people that DD talked about in his post. I still do not see why some of them shouldve been demoted. Most of the people on that list are still great posters with vast knowledge, and I do not see why they should not be mods or admins or whatever. I still remember coming to the site, after they made all the changes to the titles and all that bullshit. I didnt understand the point then, and still dont.

I see the point of the supermods, as in they can close, move, delete, etc. threads, but I think anyone w/ substantial time on bluelight could do the same. There are enough people on the board w/ enough knowledge to mod <insert forum name>, yet forums like DC still doesnt have any mods.

As for C-22, I have never talked to the man. Like others have said, he has not posted in 7 days. If I remember correctly, which I think I do, CMB was demoted from DC for not posting enough. However, if C-22 doesnt feel like posting or whatnot, nothing happens. Of course there is going to be a dispute in the community when things like this are going on.

These are just the things that I see going on with this board. I love this board and community to death, even though I do not talk to anyone on this board outside of this website. I could list a ton of names of posters that I respect and value their imput, and many of them were former mods, etc.

Take this post w/ a grain of salt if you wish, I dont care. I dont think my opinion really matters, but I will state it anyway.

And to xtcxtc, a big THANK YOU for addressing this matter, and for paying for the website that I love to come to. The ultimate decision as to where this board goes should be left up to you.
 
What i want to know is why have 13 former moderators, 1 former engineer, the sit benefactor, 2 senior moderators, 2 former administrators,1 administrator, 5 moderators, and 17 bluelighters (5 or 6 of which may have been mods at some point, i'm too lazy to check) have shown some kind of concern to varying levels on how this place has ran...
and Catch, Skydancer, and the remaining admin that have not addressed this issue, haven't bothered replying yet. Is it not a big deal.. or have you all not come across it yet?
 
Have you ever been in the staff forum? I don´t remember many topics there that didn't make me want to take up arms and hijack the server ;)

"But I..."

"It's final."

"Yes, but surely..."

"Shut up. BTW, you don't post enough, send me a detailed account of why you should remain a mod or I will remove you. In fact I will anyway."

"Hey, wait a..."

*silence*

And so forth.

--- G.
 
Yeah i've seen MPC/Staff Forum or whatever they're calling it these days. I held three mod positions. The only thread you can can't on not being closed in the "official: I'm on Vacation thread"
 
i would just like to add my 2 cents and say i agree with the majority of the posters. i feel the justification given by the admins (with the exception of TLB) amounts to "because i said so".

i wonder how someone who has posted in EDD only four times, can make an effective decision on the way to run things there. especially when he states that he will not read replys, just check the vote count on a poll that many people don't want to vote in because they disagree with the options.

i know i am just a lowly BLer who has never help a mod position or even posts that often. but i have noticed a difference in the site from when i began lurking in '01, to when i joined in '02, to now.
 
DigitalDuality said:
and the remaining admin that have not addressed this issue, haven't bothered replying yet. Is it not a big deal.. or have you all not come across it yet?
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of course it's a big deal. i hadn't replied yet because of a couple reasons, mostly because i didn't want anything to be construed as an 'official' opinion and also i wanted to not make any kind of a knee-jerk response to anyone. i will say that i think spencer has made the best post so far in this thread, and i pretty much agree with what TLB has written.
 
Originally posted by DigitalDuality
What i want to know is why have 13 former moderators, 1 former engineer, the sit benefactor, 2 senior moderators, 2 former administrators,1 administrator, 5 moderators, and 17 bluelighters (5 or 6 of which may have been mods at some point, i'm too lazy to check) have shown some kind of concern to varying levels on how this place has ran...
and Catch, Skydancer, and the remaining admin that have not addressed this issue, haven't bothered replying yet. Is it not a big deal.. or have you all not come across it yet?
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It's possible they haven't noticed it yet. I think they'd be likely to browse in the support forum or staff forum before they take the time to stroll into Second Opinion. If you want to ensure that they see it, you could always link them to it in a PM and hope they read your PM.

And I don't know either of them personally, therefore I can't say anything about either of their personalities. Most of these posts are stating disdain for Catch-22. Maybe he's just hesitating to respond because he's trying to figure out the best way to defend himself, or he feels that regardless of how he defends himself, the negative comments (however warranted) are going to continue.

Then again that might not be the case. I'm just saying... if it was me, thats how I'd feel.
 
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