Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*

i dont see the need for personal attacks.. i'm just expressing my viewpoint

bluelight is neither a business nor a country.. it's a website message board. i don't know what other boards you guys visit where the users decide every aspect of the board, but i haven't encountered it on any board i've been on.

i dont really care to redebate the whole EDD drama but i agree the way it was announced wasn't the best way to do it, and because of it the admins have taken a more active role as the communicators with the users. but to say the poll didnt give you any options (or was "flawed") is incorrect.. you had the option to vote for a new forum, or not. if enough people said yes, then the new forum would be made. people decided they didnt like the idea of a separate forum and didn't vote yes.
 
Im just going by what i remember people saying, they said we needed more options, ic ant rememebr exactly what the poll said..and yeah sorry for the personal attack, i just got fed up with the live with it attitude.

And i consider BL to be different from other sites, as people call it a community, so we should be allowed to have our personal say.
 
^ You are having your say right now. Like any open community, everyone gets to have their say. It does not mean that the leadership will agree with you.
 
frizzantik said:
i dont really care to redebate the whole EDD drama but i agree the way it was announced wasn't the best way to do it, and because of it the admins have taken a more active role as the communicators with the users. but to say the poll didnt give you any options (or was "flawed") is incorrect.. you had the option to vote for a new forum, or not. if enough people said yes, then the new forum would be made. people decided they didnt like the idea of a separate forum and didn't vote yes.
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To be fair, that wasn't the option we were given or how it's turned out.

I'm very happy with where 'we' are now and where we can go from here, don't get me wrong, but to say the that we had a 'option to vote for a new forum and no-one did so it stayed the same' just isn't right. We were given two choices by Catch - we split the forum or we turn it into social only, not to mention the manner in which he did it - that was the problem.

*flogs dead horse more* ;)
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[edit: off-topic picture removed]
 
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frizzantik said:
i dont see the need for personal attacks.. i'm just expressing my viewpoint

bluelight is neither a business nor a country.. it's a website message board. i don't know what other boards you guys visit where the users decide every aspect of the board, but i haven't encountered it on any board i've been on.
Click to expand...

That's a bit of a straw man. No-one is asking to decide every aspect of the board. No-one is asking for an Athenian style democracy where we vote on every damn thing. We are asking for more transparency and more of a willingness to listen.

Which is how things used to be.

This site is a community. The people who contribute to that community should have their voices heard. That means, at the least, that mods get some input into the direction that their forums go in, and that they take into account the views of forum regulars. Which doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
 
Bully in the Pulpit

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6999749/site/newsweek
Bully in the Pulpit
Larry Summer's heavy-handed leadership at Harvard is under attack. In corporate America, he's got some company

By Daniel McGinn NewsweekFeb. 28 issue -

They're called change agents. They swoop in to transform stodgy institutions, using their power of persuasion - or brute force - to implement their bold agenda. It's a risky tack, one that guarantees large numbers of people will hate the boss's guts. If successful, change agents are celebrated. But at every step of the way, opponents lie in wait, ready to pounce at the slightest misstep. They can sense moments of vulnerability. Can this leader be toppled?

i think the above is very analogous to the job C-22 was asked to do.

unfortunately for him one needs some support from the rank and file ( or a Board of Directors ) rather than just an absentee co dictator.

i do feel great sympathy for C-22 as he did some great work for BL --- arguably the most important of all. ( i would far prefer to maintain the site and the h/ware than make policy and write / control the work required from others ).

still, ultimately he failed in what i believe was an impossible job.
 
Catch is a great hardworking guy, his vision and 'no fucking around' attitude has been a benefit to BL. However, he was once just another schmo too, and his rise can be attributed not only to his excellent works, but his staunch and vocal support among his peers in the staff and also the broader membership.

Unfortunately today it seems both are... Undervalued.

Would catch get his dues under this current environment?
 
-Thoth said:
'no fucking around' attitude
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I think that's a problem, rather than a praise worthy attribute, for many people. It's an especially troubling attitude for leading volunteers. In the work world it's not admirable, but people will put up with it because their means of living depends on it. However, in a volunteer context it serves only to drive people off and weaken an organization. IMO.
 
Since this thread wont seem to die, I feel its ok to comment on it...

Die thread die... please I am sick of seeing this thread
 
^ if you are sick of seeing it, stop reading it? pretty straightforward.

this thread was started about a month ago and has, now, about 450 replies. what, if anything, do you feel it has achieved?

alasdair
 
THE WOOD said:
what is this thread about?
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cmon its 19 pages long and i dont wanan read the whole thing! fill me in! gimme a quick sum up!
 
Those that have chosen to publish the content of Private Messages and/or the actual names (to the best of your knowledge) of members within this thread; I certainly hope you obtained prior consent to do so.
 
As an occasional user of bluelight i realize i dont really have much of a say in this. I certainly dont have any desire to "dictate everything" (no Frizzantik!!!). What really worries me is seeing such a great number of current and ex moderators expressing their concerns about Bluelights current state. These persons i have learned to respect trough their dedicated work (unpaid) for harm reduction on theses pages. I realize that my opinion dont mean shit to skydancer and Catch22, and maybe it should not. But all those people should mean something to you, just out of respect for their many hours of devotion to our common cause of harm reduction, channeled through the pages of bluelight.

As a common user i had noted that a lot of my personal old favorit mods/users dont seem to be around anymore, or rarely posts. Some of them i imagine have just found other things to do, but if some of them indeed were driven off by harsh/top-down management methods, then that is a great loss indeed, of them as individuals as well as of the knowledge and experiences they contributed with.

Skydancers response was articulate and interesting, but also show a certain amount of the arrogance that grows out of power. The tone in this discussion have generally been respectful, so there is no need to call anyone "worthless trolls" or saying "theres a reason youre an exmod". So, they fell out of favor with the top dogs does that make them disqualified to have have opinions? He also fail to adress some of the critical issues at hand. Basically its a "take it or leave it" said in the nicest of ways.

Sadly, power corrupts, even within an internet communty like bluelight. The sheer lenght of this thread if nothing else shows that there really exists a problem, and that means to balance the execution of arbitrary power have to be taken. Its in the interest of maintaining bluelight healthy as well as spreading the word of harm reduction efficiently.
 
all the dirty laundy has been aired, and still no resolution in sight

i'm not surprised though. :|
 
This built up to the boiling point almost three months ago (several cries beforehand, but this is pretty much where things reached a head).

What's changed since then - many of you will say 'nothing.' But let me ask you, how many more complaints have there been? We'll agree there are little to none, and while you may credit that to "What's the point if nothing is done" I disagree and say that things are improved, just not in any overt fashion. Without public statement from Sr. Admins, I sincerely believe things are running smoother and staff/members are more happy than they've been in quite awhile. It is my opinion that things are closer to the way they used to be before everyone got upset with Executive Decisions and Less Personal management.

Those mods that are still in place, or who've been added, how many of them still grumble behind closed doors? How many changes have happened with that 'Deal with it or leave' attitude? How many forums have members and mods that actually feel they have some say in what happens in their forums as opposed to a year ago? As opposed to 3 months ago?

We have made efforts, just not ones you may recognize immediately. Have we addressed all the issues? Hell no, but we're trying. Have we fixed everything? No, but nothings ever perfect, you just have to work to make it better than it was.

There's more to say (then again, a discussion like this could last until the internet dies). But, IMO, we are functioning better than before, the site is healthier than before (discounting troll issues), and at this point it is more important to ensure we've got mods in forums where they are needed before coming back to address the philosphies on who has what rights for a site they visit but don't own. We can get back to those discussions, and perhaps some improvements can be gleaned without running into an endless situation of people refusing to acknowledge or understand the other party's views. But right now, more immediate issues persist.
 
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