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⫸STICKY⫷ Six Simple Rules... To MDMA

futura2012 said:
Theres always a lot of debate on here about Shulgin Said What?

For this reason I have updated my 4Shared Folder to include all the Shulgin References I can find. I will update more as I find more sources.

The one that does cover dose is the document titled What is MDMA.

http://www.4shared.com/folder/psb_z448/Shulgins_Notes.html



Personally I would say this is a little high. Would the 1.5mG per kilo sugested in the Shulgin document not be a better gauge or at least something that falls more in the 100-120mG zone not 200mg.

Particularly for first timers.

Also a minor issue but you are weighing people in pounds (imperial) and weighing drugs in mG (metric) This is very confusing.

On the basis we are an international community and to avoid confusion please can we have all measurements in metric.
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I've adapted the dosage measurements to both pounds and kilos a while ago, they're both there for convenience. The 1.5mg per kilo dosage has been there a while too.

I don't think it's paticularly high, there is a range dosage of 100-150 with a redose of 50-75 so a total of 150-225. As noted if you are experienced with the drug the higher range could be hit. I know first timers should really only be hitting the lower doasage bracket, maybe I wasnt clear, will adapt accordingly :)
 
I've adapted the dosage measurements to both pounds and kilos a while ago, they're both there for convenience. The 1.5mg per kilo dosage has been there a while too.
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Sorry Strutter im not trying to be a dick but I cant see it.


If I am reading below correct then Example 1 is an 88.2kG male taking 300mG.

Thats a total of 3.4mg per kilo over double the recomended 1.5mG per kilo.


Example 2

76.5kG male taking 150mg - 225mG thats 1.96mg - 2.94mG / per kilo.

In both cases this is well above the recommended amounts.



If you disagree with the quoted Shulgin dosing (which I accept is debatable) then why even quote it as these figures are way off. In some ways argubably a bit steering towards the strong side.

I cant see the measurements in pounds and kilos either. In the examples below where are the kilo measurements?

Personally I think quoting Imperial vs a Metric measurement in one is a little confusing but I realise weights are still done in the USA using pounds so I understand the conversions you are making for mass appeal. I had a brief look on Google for smaller units of imperial but I dont think Drachms or Grains are going to cut it vs the recognized mg in regards to MDMA :D

Example
I am a 6ft4 male who weighs 196 lbs and I dose at 200mg+ a redose of ~100mg half an hour later. This dose would be considered high for many, but is more suitable to somebody my height and weight, as well as my experience with the drug.

Example
I would suggest a 6ft male weighing 170lbs dose at 100-150mg+ a redose of 50-75mg depending on their experience with the drug. Females should take less. There are many variables that affect dosage, so it is difficult to say with any certainty what any one individual should take.

If you are relatively new to MDMA I would suggest hitting the lower end of the dosage range, otherwise the experience may be too intense.
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Oh sorry I see what you mean, you're taking about the examples. Brain fart mate, will change that.

I was talking about this :P

It is generally accepted that around 100mg is a good starter dose. However, more accurately you should dose around 1.5mg-2mg per kg weight, or 0.675mg - 0.9mg per lb weight of the individual. These are guidelines and the dose you should take will be affected by the factors listed above.
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The example one is my personal dosage amounts, because I factored in stuff like height (6ft4), weight, and my tolerance.

I thought dosage from Shulgin did not include a redose? The intial dose is based on his recommendations and the higher bracket (2mg) is a figure quoted on a lot of sites. The redose is a top up and is kind of out of the initial dose equation, for example a 50% dose half an hour to an hour later won't really get you any "higher" just prolong the experience.

Do you think I should drop the 1.5mg to 1mg and keep the 2, clearly stating that the dose between the two is what Shulgin recommended, but you can take more or less based on the factors discussed?

Lol you ain't being a dick mate, I don't pretend to everything about MDMA, it's a thread for everybody to contribute to. :)
 
Do you think I should drop the 1.5mg to 1mg and keep the 2, clearly stating that the dose between the two is what Shulgin recommended, but you can take more or less based on the factors discussed?
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My personal opinion I think from a 100% HR perspective then the Shulgin quote 1.5mG per kilo with no redose is about spot on.

However things as you rightly point out get slightly distorted once we start to talk about body mass as oposed to body weight. Ie is someone smaller and fatter more prone to damage from a higher dose of MDMA than say someone who is tall and skinny.

The answer here is I have no idea. Its an interesting thought. I guess this would have to be up to the individual and see how they reacted to other drugs ie caffeine, alcohol etc if they were say sensitive to things then caution to be advised.

In regards to the redose I have no reference to any official figures. In my personal opinion (and this is all I have) then I would say the redose should be advised at 40% of the initial dose but making it clear that the redose requires more caution.

If we took say an 85kG Male then that would be 127.5mG initial dose with a redose of 51mG. Total nights dose would be 178.5mG.

If I were in your position making a Sticky on the topic that would be about as far as I would push it but clearly this is just my opinion. In regards to dosing at the end of the day it is very individualistic and can only be a rough guide. In regards to dosing its probably best to turn to the forum and see what the majority say.

From my experience of being on here the dosing debate usually falls at about 100mG-120mG initial with a redose of 50mG-60mG so not far off the figures quoted

I think maybe in the examples point out that the ***/kg is for the initial dose and the redose figures are a kind of suck it and see exercise perhaps with some kind of cap limit.

just my thoughts anyway :)
 
lol I only weigh 100 pounds (45kg).... so if I was to follow the 1.5mg per KG rate, I would only need 67mg of MDMA to be rolling :p


Yeah, I know, I'm tiny (no body fat). But shit, I need WAY more of a dose than that. Around double haha.... honestly I think the whole MG/KG thing is a bit skewed. Body weight isn't SUPER important when it comes to dosing drugs.
 
That's why I listed there area number of factors to consider. To be honest 100lbs is a bit light, I know you're only 16 but dosage recommendations can't apply to an "outlier" like you, especially considering your experience with drugs in general.

I'll amend the OP in a bit. I need nearly 300mg to get where I want to be (200+100) but for some people that is excessive.
 
Yeah, I know, I'm tiny (no body fat). But shit, I need WAY more of a dose than that. Around double haha.... honestly I think the whole MG/KG thing is a bit skewed. Body weight isn't SUPER important when it comes to dosing drugs.
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It is a little skewed agreed. I guess a lot of it is because MDMA is hitting the brain first followed by body. How the body mass / weight comes into play is no exact science.

In regards to a sticky on the topic however, I think airing on the side of caution is probably best as the average user likely to read this and take stuff in might well be a newbie.

I never knew you were that small. Wow learn something new everyday. Good to hear you :)

I'll amend the OP in a bit. I need nearly 300mg to get where I want to be (200+100) but for some people that is excessive.
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Op looks good strutter I think the ammendment is slightly better

I will have another look through and make any other suggestions if needed :)
 
futura2012 said:
My personal opinion I think from a 100% HR perspective then the Shulgin quote 1.5mG per kilo with no redose is about spot on.
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Gonna have to call bollocks on that I'm afraid. 1.5mg/kg would make my 'perfect' dose about 90mg. 90mg would be fairly underwhelming, my favourite dose is between 130-150mg.
 
StrutterGear said:
That's why I listed there area number of factors to consider. To be honest 100lbs is a bit light, I know you're only 16 but dosage recommendations can't apply to an "outlier" like you, especially considering your experience with drugs in general.

I'll amend the OP in a bit. I need nearly 300mg to get where I want to be (200+100) but for some people that is excessive.
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Oh for sure hahahaha, I am by no means the average user. Still though, I see dosing as a VERY personal thing that can't be simply boiled down to an equation lol..... for some 120mg is too high of a dose, but for most that would be a waste of MDMA because they would feel almost nothing haha..


I think people really need to find what works for THEM. A newb should drop a good 100mg even for his first roll, then he should be able to see just about how much more he should have for the next time





You write this all by yourself though Strutt? If so, massive props must be given :)
 
Folley said:
Oh for sure hahahaha, I am by no means the average user. Still though, I see dosing as a VERY personal thing that can't be simply boiled down to an equation lol..... for some 120mg is too high of a dose, but for most that would be a waste of MDMA because they would feel almost nothing haha..


I think people really need to find what works for THEM. A newb should drop a good 100mg even for his first roll, then he should be able to see just about how much more he should have for the next time





You write this all by yourself though Strutt? If so, massive props must be given :)
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Aye, the thing with dosing is that it decreases exponentially relative to weight, so people who are thinner will end up getting told to take doses often too low.

It's just a rough guide really, no one person is the same like you said. Just gives a rough guide.

Thanks very much mate. Indeed I did, but as you can see many a contribution has been given since it's publication that I have added.
 
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consider adding a note on terms & slang?

e.g.

mdma is 3,4-methylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine, an empathogenic drug of the phenethylamine and amphetamine drug classes.

molly is commonly used to describe mdma specifically in powder, or crushed crystal, form. other drugs are sold in powder form as 'molly'.

ecstasy is commonly used to describe mdma specifically in pill form. other drugs are sold in pill form as 'ecstacy'.

thoughts?

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
consider adding a note on terms & slang?

e.g.

mdma is 3,4-methylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine, an empathogenic drug of the phenethylamine and amphetamine drug classes.

molly is commonly used to describe mdma specifically in powder, or crushed crystal, form. other drugs are sold in powder form as 'molly'.

ecstasy is commonly used to describe mdma specifically in pill form. other drugs are sold in pill form as 'ecstacy'.

thoughts?

alasdair
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After reading another one of those threads (I think you posted in) I couldn't agree more. I can't understand how people "don't get it". Will amend soon, doing coursework at the moment.
 
My personal opinion I think from a 100% HR perspective then the Shulgin quote 1.5mG per kilo with no redose is about spot on.
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Gonna have to call bollocks on that I'm afraid. 1.5mg/kg would make my 'perfect' dose about 90mg. 90mg would be fairly underwhelming, my favourite dose is between 130-150mg.
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I wouldnt say its not bollocks. Favourite dose vs correct HR dose might be something a little different.

I would say debatable might be a better word. The main point here is what do you advise for the sticky as I would suspect the majority reading this for guidance would likely be newbies. In terms of HR (less) to a point is good.

However I understand there is a fine line between a safe vs shit buzz.

90mG I would not describe as a low dose more average but again very debatable :)

I think people really need to find what works for THEM. A newb should drop a good 100mg even for his first roll, then he should be able to see just about how much more he should have for the next time
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The 100mg - 120mg seems to be the general agreement for a first timer dose but again for some this might be a little too much. Perhaps the 1.5/kg should be advised for first time newbie dosing?

mdma is 3,4-methylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine, an empathogenic drug of the phenethylamine and amphetamine drug classes.

molly is commonly used to describe mdma specifically in powder, or crushed crystal, form. other drugs are sold in powder form as 'molly'.

ecstasy is commonly used to describe mdma specifically in pill form. other drugs are sold in pill form as 'ecstacy'.

thoughts?
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I would say this is a good call also.

Oh dear I bet you wished you never did this sticky now Strutter and endless stream of updates :D
 
The weight to dose ratio is only a guide... 100mg dose for a first timer is spot on with a 50mg redose. A few mg over if your a bit bigger.
 
Super great thread!! I send this to any friend who is thinking of getting into mdma :D
 
i agree that the dosage to wieght scale is kinda messed up. i weigh about 155 and i need at least 150mg to feel it but 200mg is more like it.
 
thizzlemonster86 said:
i agree that the dosage to wieght scale is kinda messed up. i weigh about 155 and i need at least 150mg to feel it but 200mg is more like it.
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That's down to tolerance and personal experience then, you weigh about a three quarters of me and take the same dose?
 
Ive used mdma probably around 15-16 times.

Ive experienced what i'd say is probably the most intense euphoria that leveled out all my suffering and shit life and made me feel a lot better,
However

i have also experienced comedowns which arent very nice if you have issues with depression/the past in your mind for life.


But!

It is important that i tell yous that, when i use mdma responsibly,
waiting 5 months and dosing only 92mg (i still buzzed for 3 and a half hours, and another half hour more)
I suffered no comedown after, i left that rave positive and stayed positive all week and beyond after because i was so glad with myself, that i'd went to a rave, followed what knowledge i know and suffered no consequences, unlike other times where i haven't waited as long and dosed a bit higher (150mg).

Call me a wuss or whatever go ahead but i don't care.
Everyone is different and everyone has been through different shit in their lives, not everyones neurochemistry is on the same levels.
But i did find the high dose mdma gave me a day or 2 of bad depression in the past, not something i think i'd want to go through.

So the bottom line is,
If you want to experience mdma, but not damage your life IF you may be susceptible to these after effects, then please do read up and use MDMA responsibly.


This forums is more and more equipped with knowledge each year, excellent i say :)
 
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