Sick fuck kicks toddler, 2yo so hard it split her liver in two

[Eveleivibe]

I do hear what you're saying in a way. It's like when I go off at certain friends here, thinking the worst - My ex is still winning. Because I met him online n he was manipulative, deceitful a liar n cause of what I'd found ound when heavily pregnant which completely shattered everything - but when I start thinking others are the same n pushing them away I 'm
Letting him win - even though he's in jail for everything now (though it's not
Long enough )

When I get angry about this - and other things, I am still letting
My ex control me though he's 100s miles away n locked up where he can no linger hurt any other child or female again

Not ecmveryone is like him, people are different n I so easily forget that.

He was rehabilitated n " let off lightly," convinced everyone he's changed but got with someone else n hurt their child which is why he's in jail. I do have a lot of guilt over that because I feel that I should have somehow been able to stop it or him from hurting anyone else but I wasn't n will have to live with that for the rest of my life.

Shambles I do admire you for letting go of anger n for seeing things from different perspectives. I'm sorry that you needed to hurt yourself but am happy for you that you're working through things n not letting them win.

Evey

 

[Raasyvibe]

The magic of actual interaction - we still don't agree completely perhaps but were a darn sight closer than it might have looked at times. And actually we're not so very far off on the sticking point retained cos I said something about that earler. I would suggest it is a process - and I do believe it is probably the "natural" one despite counterintuitiveness. Natural in the sense that it does seem to work out better for all concerned and just in general. If something really does make you feel a lot better about certain things - over time of course, took many, many years before I noticed it was kinda happening anyway and no matter how much I tried kicking against it that never did anything but make me feel worse. Did have those fleeting momemts of doing something really quite nasty - generally to myuself not to anybody else cos has long been my way - and being really pleased with myself for proving to myself just what terrible things and what grievious - and utterly unforgivable cos that would be backing down somehow - letting the prick off easy.

At some point I couldn't stop that really annoying thing that kept rtying to point out that actually that person hadn't been within 100miles of me in 20-odd years and the only person still hurting me was me. As soon as it really clicked that that type of situation when young can mess with your head to the point you almost do what you think "should" be done to you cos are so tied up (or bound up perhaps) in it all abd lost all perspective. I'd been doing his dirty work for years without ever noticing there was nobody else with such determination and ability to keep picking at the juiceir scabs for decades after the original ones - physical or metaphorical - had gone the way scabs and old wounds in general tend to go. Itch and niggle and are rally hard to ignore even when the obviously acutely damaged area has rebuilt itself anew - bit less pristine and faultless in some ways perhaps but mostly stronger and probably better for it cos the more persisitent and bigger ones need to put the groundwork in before the surface and it's those foundational bits that have all the strength cos they took time to get right and to gain enough of that the wobbliness and shaky nature of less strongly woven foundations tend to have. The very top surface bit might have ghostly marks left behiind but that is all they are cos are but skin deep now.

Still got things that are... challenging to not just be immensely pissed off about with no obvious end in sight nor pressingly obvious need to change cos some things piss people off for very good reason. But I also know that no matter how much pissed offedness I can muster it can't go any further than me and maybe anybody in the immediate viciinty at most. Or anybody within sloshing a bit of that excess pissed offness at for incredibly flimsy excuses at best usuallly. Cos not pissed off with them and not even completely sure I'me still really that pissed off with original source of all pissed offness in all its many variations. Suspecc I may just be pissed off that I know being pissed off essentially for the sake of being pissed off at this point is really not doing much of any value and is probably doing more to harm me than anybody else even if mild harm compared to some things that somehow slipped awaty one weight pinning me in a place I physically left behind decades ago but never really leaves cos it was always in me not out there somewhere. Was forcibly inflicted on me at times perhaps - didn't originate with me but as soon a I made it my home it rather disappeared from scrutiny and even awareness for a very long time.

These things - quite a number of things - did quite real damage for qutte some time. They can't do taht anymore cos it's been me at the controls for well over twice as long as anybody else got to manipulate at will. I don't forgive - slowly and in stages with bits not quite as forgiven and other bits frankly long forgotten now - it's not for his benefit. There may be some side-effect that's in some way beneficial to him in some way but I don't know what it would be cos haven't had reason or desire to see him since the first oppurtunity we had to get far enough away he couldn't be arsed to come hunt us down again. Just under 20 miles in this case apparently. May as well be 20 light years or any other really big thing - or really small thing - any thing really cos is not present in my life except for the bits I still hold on to even though I really don't like the chap one little bit.

I do now know a little of his own formative years though and do know a bit more about various... differences that are less obvious when under their most intensive control - the actual outside interference that is long since gone. Still don't like him cos he's a nasty, vicious, vindictive shit of a man - plus his even more delightful surprise bonus reasons to really, really dislike him immensely (kept those all to himself (hopefully anyway)) til another unsuspecting family group came along that better suited his... requirements in some areas. Oddly enough it was when all that came out that the change in attittude really kicked in a bit. That would be something positive brought about by something spectacularly negative fo those more closely assocaited with it. You really don't ever know what effect a thing - any given thing good bad or indifferent... on the surface level anyway - not till it's already happened right around somewhere. Certainly wasn't what I was planning to be getting up to and on with as some kind of weirdly celebratrory wallowing in somebody else's misery cos it could've been mine. It's very hard to sustain those ways of thinking once spotted out in the open like that. Especially when as each one goes wherever it goes things don't feel quite as bad - also slowly and also not straightline straight up, but a trend does seem to be very closely linked to letting go of things other people used to break bits of me. Seems they can more or less heal themselves when in suitable envorinment to do so and not picked at quite so persistently.

The thing that struck me more than anything reading through this thread is the fact that for so many people the only right & proper reaction to such a horrific act of mindless brutality is to try to top it. Of course it's an emotive matter when incidents like this are brought to widespread public opinion - it's fukkin horrible, lashing out in that way to somebody so very young and ending her life in the most viciously meaningless way. I can understand anger, but what I can't understand is sustained anger and at such levels. Not just this particularly brutal case but whenever these thinga happen. It's one of few situations where not only do people feel justified in calling for not just stringing people up but torturing and maiming and anybody who suggests anything less than that is somehow in favour of murdering children/



The fact so few do really is really quite concerning. None of us know exactly what happened in this case but it seems fairly clear that this individual lashed out in anger - and not for the first time it would appear - but this time didn't hold back at all. A moment of fury over nothing. The level of anger directed towards him is quite extraordinary though - not cos it's not perfectly natural to feel that way but this is not a moment of fury it's... well it's several decades of tragic cases of messed up people killing children. I'm not for one moment suggesting this was anything less than what it was - may have been a moment of fury but seems they happened fairly often. Of course a man like that should be locked up for a very long time indeed and of course people feel shock, anger and disbelief, but tortured daily for life? Burnt alive? And those at the less extreme end of the scale.

Is it genuine belief in black and white and good and evil and that's all there is to it? Cos if not some people really could do with thinking a little on what they're actually saying. I have no interest in trying to mitigate the horrendous nature of his actions but however unthinkably brutal those actions were I don't imagine it was premeditated in any way. That doesn't make it any better cos he was clearly violent towards the girl regularly enough to have left a number of prior - and not insignificant - injuries on her body. That's still a different thing to premeditated violence. I rather doubt he thought much beyond more or less a reflexive or instinctive reaction to anger and frustration - there's not one of us who doesn't do the same on much, much smaller scale. This is why we have a system of degrees of murder - the more thought and planning involved the more callous the crime is perceived to be. And when you add in what comes perilously close to almost gleeful wallowing in fantasies of what you'd do if only you could lay hands on him...

His reported behaviour seems really very odd indeed - armchair psycholohy of course but he has psychopath written all over him from what is reported in the articles. Barely seems to have any real grasp on quite how extreme his actions were and little to no signs of understanding of the effect and consequences of those actions at all. There really doesn't seem to be any feeling of any form about any of it - can't even be bothered to get off the phone whilst there's a two year old girl broken in a heap on the floor. It's as close to an emotional reaction as I can spot amongst the rest of his behaviour and attitude (what was reported anyway - and for once I can't really see that there's any real reason to be lying or covering up all the great work he did for charity or whatever). A bit irritated cos a paramedic suggested he perhaps has more important things going on than chatting on the phone. The reported extracts from his supposed confession are very telling - you or I wouldn't be able to write that cos there is a difference between that person and most other people. Nothing to do with inherent "evil" though.

To me that is not "evil" that's somebody who just didn't come out right for some unfortunate mixture of genetics and fucked up childhood I'd hazard a guess at. Psychopathy is not something you can opt in to or out of - the structure of the brain is different and the bits that prevent the rest of us from behaving much the same just aren't there and functioning. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have received the life sentence cos not having any real understanding of how others feel doesn't mean you are not fully aware of what other people feel about things like booting toddlers across rooms. In a sense I would say he - and those like him - are victims of a kind too. They were dealt a shitty hand they - usually for a number of reasons - never had any chance of being able to do anything about. It's not like you can go to classes or counselling to grow vital areas of the brain you happened to be born without is it? Yes, the majority of people in that unfortunate situation will probably just end up being bankers or politicians and the like, but a certain number willl have the nurture side of the equation shit on them from a great height too - and when they would be in the "innocent children" category too.

Obviously I don't know this particular person's history but I don't think anybody has never noticed that when that particular form of brain... will call it difference... although also seems to be plenty damaging in that other psychopathy-friendly career choice of being more or less just as ruthless only in a situation where it's largely considered acceptahle and something to be proud of... but that aside, whether difference or damage when it combines with just a really shitty hand in general (childhood abuses of whichever form) there is a clear link to being at higher risk of growing up to do something like this. At what point did they get to choose that particular type of birth defect? Did they ask for it to be compounded by the type of childhood it seems this poor girl had to endure for her brief time here? It's not "evil" it's tragic - for all concerned.

The feeling most notably absent in any of these posts so far is compassion. Compassion for the girl, her family and all who knew her of course... and I also believe there should be some compassion for people who commit such horrific acts when there's precious little doubt about there being a bit missing if you were able to see inside their skull - which we can of course with CAT scans and the like and when you do that to psychopathic people (actual psychopaths not the more generic use of the term obviously) there really is a bit missing. It's not an excuse by any means, but it's certainly a part of the reason.

The reason we say children can't be fully held to blame for things they may get away with but no adult would is that it takes a fairly long time to really understand concepts of right and wrong in any meaningful sense. I'm not saying that people like this man who (perhaps... although I'd be gobsmacked if it wasn't the case) got hit with that double nature/nurture whammy don't know right from wrong cos they do, but it's one thing to know because you've been told and quite another to have never had the fundamental equipment to really feel it - to not really feel much of anything aside from irritation at somebody intterrupting your post-toddler kicking chatting on the phone. In such cases I'd suggest that person may have enough understanding to know what is and what is not considered acceptable behaviour, but they'll never know why and it's the why that's the real point. Responsible for their actions yes, but with no way of knowing how others actually feel as a consequence of those actions - not beyond an incredibly shallow amd superficial level of being able to see people's reactions but unable to empathise. We can though and seems to me rather perverse if we decide that certain groups of people don't deserve a little somewhere down the line because they are genuinenly incapable of imagining themseleves in another's shoes, I think it worth bearing in mind it's pure luck that we are we and he is he. We couild all be capable of such acts only we probably do have those mental brakes and we can empathise with others and we probably weren't horribly brutalised through our formative years. I wonder if there's really such a great difference between us otherwise.

Long post yes, but is a subject rather too close for comfort with my family and my history being what it is. Took a very long time to realise and accept that the more anger I had towards... people and things that were ultimately accidents of birth and unfortunate events - and were also very Bad Things cos the former are part of the reason but can never be excuses - the more anger held on to the closer I came to perhaps eventually crossing some line I really don't wish to cross and don't have quite those same... don't want to say mitigating factors... but I can't really think what else you would call them. The things - chance things - that make me me not he. The things that allow me to catch myself before I react and allow me some insight into the thoughts and feeings of others even when they don't have that capacity. I can't truly empathise with a lack of empathy cos that just can't happen anymore than it can the other way around, but I can see there is a difference and it is an important difference.

The more I've let go that anger and the closer I've come to... it's not forgiveness as such but is perhaps a level of acceptance that some people do things most of us would not do - and probably could not do for the most part - and that when deep down you know that the thought processes are not all there and working as they should do it ends up feeling really very hollow to cling too tightly to blame and bitterness and hatred above all else. It just takes you further away from the humanity lacking on some level in the person all that hatred is focussed on which has the unfortunate side-effect of emphasising the underlying similarity that is really very uncomfortable indeed to see and to know is there. The closer I edgre towards what probably will need to be actual forgiveness one day the more like me I feel and the less obvious those underlying similarities seem to be.

And one more thing whilst I'm prattling, mothers can be just as vicious I can assure you. And children ain't half as angelic and innocent as some may hope. I know I was an absolute shit when I was a child. Vicious, uncaring, manipulative and well aware of what I was doing - that's not innocence. At the same time I was a small boy in a less than ideal situation and was but a big ball of hate and anger and hurt. Feel much better without it and really wasn't quite as bitter a pill to swallow as I'd imagined. Now that person is not so very big, bad and scary - he's mostly a bit pitiful and also pitiable. Still a scumbag but I don't think he got to choose to be that way so seems unneccessary to focus on that bit as intensely as I did for so long.

And will now go do something other than this for a while. Think I must've needed to get something out my system

I came to that conclusion by simple observation, Evey. There can be no good or any evil without an understanding of those things and why the majority of people tend to agree on certain fundamentals in that area. The people who commit such acts were born without the capacity to have meaningful understanding of these things. No not all of them would fit with a clinical diagnosis of true psychopathy I'm sure but certainly a great many do and is those I'm talking about. We (for the most part anyway I'd hope) were luckier and we can know not only that you'll get in trouble if you do certain things but we also fully understand why that is so cos we can put ourselves in the position of those who will be hurt. We know how we'd feel if somebody did that to our child or our whoever it may be.

What about people who suffer brain injuries which radically change their personality - and sometimes in really quite disturbing ways. Or people who have a stroke that affects the same areas of the brain so they also lose the ability to be able to see things from another's perspective. They used to care but now they don't because they can't and couldn't no matter how they tried cos that handy bit of grey goop is no longer functioning properly. Would these people also be "evil"? I'd suggest they were mostly very unfortunate cos they didn't choose it any more than people born with that pathology. Do you consider birth defects in general to be "evil"? I'm sure you don't so why is this one different?

So no, maybe not quite from the same place cos we actually do know - really know - better and can make informed decisions based on understanding, empathy and experience. It could be argued that the relishing at the idea of what we'd do if we could get hold of him is actually worse because of that. It's not just lashing out - lashing out in the most insanely excessive manner in this case of course but still sounds a lot like things every one of us have done at some point. Who hasn't lost the head for a moment and just twatted somebody? No not a two year old girl I'm sure but that would be the difference between "normal" brain function and psychopathic brain function (most likely with additional history of abuse in their own childhood - there's definitely a link and I'm sure many of us know firsthand that a proportion of those children who are abused will grow up to abuse others and repeat the cycle.

The act itself could be described as "evil" if you choose, the person is just a very damaged individual and if it hadn't been this it would've been something else equally as pointless, self-centred and brutal. Maybe if we were better at preventing abuse in the first place there might be fewer people born with this particularly horrible condition who go on to get that additional factor that seems to lead all to often to wasted lives - their own and whoever is unlucky enough to be on the receiving end.

And yes, I do realise I've essentially just remixed the previous stimrant with a slightly less stimmed but more or less equal on rantiness. I really don't like double-standards and nor do I like scapegoating. I suspect there is a lot of anger in many if not all of us but it always surprises me quite how deep it is for some. People who do terrible things to children are one of few groups where it's almost actively encouraged to channel and focus all that pent-up rage and fury at. Which is more or less the definition of what a scapegoat is - goat (or paedophile or child murderer) isn't the source of the anger but they're convenient to soak a bit of it up. Actually dealing with whatever the causes of such strong negative feelings are would be far more constructive. The killers and rapists still get locked up for a long time for what they do, and the rest of us no longer feel the need to try to mimic the mindless brutality we are so offended by. That way there's no need for this ridiculously inflated sense of self-righteous moral superiority because we would actually have some of the real thing. We would be better people because we stopped choosing to behave (or fantasise of behaving) in psychopathic manner when we do have the choice. Some people don't have quite as much choice so cannot be responsible in quite the same way.

It irks me and it saddens me - also really does surprise me that it's not blindingly obvious that somebody who makes an informed choice to do something vile is doing something that's actually a bit more reprehensible than somebody also commiting a vile act but whose choices can never be as informed because they don't have the bit that does so much of the informing.



:D

When I started replying to this thread post #30 wasn't but barely even a twinkle in your eye. You have no idea how long that took. Is certainly a bit stimranty (due to combination of stims and... not anger, more like somehwat exasperated disappointment that people still think that as long as you stick a big Evil badge on somebody it removes all responsibility - anything goes cos it's not like it's another human being not really so very different to all the others. Different for sure, not half as much as some would like to be the case though.

But yes, it's basically what you said only said at some considerablly convoluted length and riddled with repetition. Stimrant. But with actual and valid points lurking in amongst the background filler.

... jesus

 

[Shambles]

Shambles I do admire you for letting go of anger n for seeing things from different perspectives. I'm sorry that you needed to hurt yourself but am happy for you that you're working through things n not letting them win.

Really haven't done very much of anything. Did eventually stop preventing what needed to happen from happening for long enough to notice it happening and having clear, immediate and obvious benefits though. That's all those long years of those foundational bits that probably took their time due to much picking at prodding at but think that also ended up being for the best cos really am very much better and stronger for it. Never really noticed any of that going on cos was too busy doing things that seemed appropriate and necessary. Were quite harmful things but don't think I had any awareness of any other option even if there were some to be seen.

Can even see that the entire murky bizniz has had overall positive effects totted up over the years. Had lots of really shitty ones too - ones that could quite easily have been major problems or even final solutions if this, that or t'other had been different. I can't imagine what or how I would have been otherwise but am mostly quite pleased - or becoming more so slowly but surely - at what current revision has settled into quite snugly in some parts of me. Much better than all that forever scratching at the surface where it stings best but was so caught up with that I never did manage to do any major damage to the bits that are far more important and useful over the longer term. That'd be why I had to do so much scratching to get this far I would think. Keep my significantly more ignorant self - more so than even now when still quite ignorant in so many areas but not lke I was cos was so wrapped up in it I couldn't see the bindings.

jesus

That's Shambles not Sandles.

 

[Inflorescence]

Shambles

This thread is a bit too much for me....especially on extremely strong MDMA it's breaking my heart.

 

[Marmalade]

That's Shambles not Sandles.

I lold ;p

 

[Eveleivibe]

Raas you've hardly wrote anything just quoted shamles posts
N jesus????

Evey

 

[SummerSerenade]

^ same marmz. Well too tired to read the rest of everything but that is easily my comment of the day. shambles.

 

[Raasyvibe]

^ same marmz. Well too tired to read the rest of everything but that is easily my comment of the day. shambles.

I'm not reading all that; no way. This one I'm sitting out.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Then why bother quoting it then?

Evey

 

[Shambles]

Cos we were all blissfully unaware there was quite a lot of it about I suppose. Easy to miss those massive slabs of text every few posts after all.

After so much overworking of things that just grow and grow when overly worked it seemed appropriate to remember that pithy has a place too. If I can sum the rest up in so many words I'll be surprised but you never know. Raas told me miracles happen sometimes. Some seem unlikely even if passing deities could be arsed so stimrants standing in for divine intervention until less stimmy and no further need for rantiness.

 

[Marmalade]

Then why bother quoting it then?

Evey

Because he never learns ;p


I jest raasmond, hugs all round. and 'good lucks' with the aftermath ;p

 

[parttime crackhead]

I decided no longer to watch/read the news.

I know you've said this many times but every time it still astounds me.

"Mummy, what is Israel? Who is the president of the USA? What does Tony Blair do?"
"Not a fucking clue hen"

 

[ScotchMist]

I dont believe in capital punishment or angry mob mentality looking to string people up, Im completely against it..

However thats sat in my armchair looking from the outside in, which is easy to do. Ive kids, if anyone were to harm them in such or similar ways I suspect id lash out in a similar rage to how this chap did given the chance. I know full well it wouldnt make me feel any better but rage is rage and it doesnt tend to stop to think.

Maybe im a hypocrite

 

[Ismene]

If I could just get my hands around this sick fucks throat...

Perhaps it would be better to write off some human beings as failed experiments - Peter Sutcliffe for example. If you're getting your kicks from striking women over the head with a hammer whilst wearing a green silk-lined v-neck over your legs so your cock and balls hang over the v for "easier access" - perhaps the rope beckons?

 

[ColtDan]

I do, however, admire the way you can take a look at different view points

Try it sometime

I know you've said this many times but every time it still astounds me.

"Mummy, what is Israel? Who is the president of the USA? What does Tony Blair do?"
"Not a fucking clue hen"

astounds me as well

 

[ScotchMist]

Ive actually got my 5 year old interested in the news..

When im back from work shes already had her fill of Peppa Pig so I ask her if we can put the news on, she was reluctant to start with obviously but now its become a bit of an event, snuggling down on the sofa and watching the atrocities from around the world

Maybe shes to young, I dont know, but I think its important that she realises what kind of crap is going down, how unfortunate some peoples lives are, lifes not all about the swings and eating ice cream.. who knows, maybe she'll try do something about this fucked up world..

 

[Eveleivibe]

Ive actually got my 5 year old interested in the news..

When im back from work shes already had her fill of Peppa Pig so I ask her if we can put the news on, she was reluctant to start with obviously but now its become a bit of an event, snuggling down on the sofa and watching the atrocities from around the world

Maybe shes to young, I dont know, but I think its important that she realises what kind of crap is going down, how unfortunate some peoples lives are, lifes not all about the swings and eating ice cream.. who knows, maybe she'll try do something about this fucked up world..

You let a five year old watch stuff like that when they could have nightmares n could be scared to death?

Evey

 

[Eveleivibe]

I know you've said this many times but every time it still astounds me.

"Mummy, what is Israel? Who is the president of the USA? What does Tony Blair do?"
"Not a fucking clue hen"

Ermmm because I've got OCD n get anxious, obsessed n paranoid over it maybe?

Evey

 

[parttime crackhead]

I know I'm straying into the "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO RAISE MY KIDS" danger zone but...

Your ignorance of the world surely isn't good for your child.


If it was just you then cool, be ignorant. But it's not just you.

 

[ScotchMist]

Watch stuff like what?? Wars in Syria? Yes.. Israel? Yes...! Tsunamis wiping out towns. Yes...! Famine in Africa, yes..!

Shes not having nightmares Evey, she knows that she's as safe as can be but shes also not under the illusion that the world is made of cotton candy..!

I havent forced her to watch it, she wants to. If you watched the news youd know that if any graphic scenes are coming up they pre warn you.. then we're off back to Peppa Pig..