Sick fuck kicks toddler, 2yo so hard it split her liver in two

[Eveleivibe]

Violence towards someone who is defenseless, which he would be once captured and set up ready for whatever medieval punishment you're advocating, is where part of the similarity lies.

If you're shouting for a square go with the guy, then I'll support that.

Nothing more than he deserves. An eye for an eye and all that....

I notice that those of you trying to actually DEFEND this waste of space don't have children yourselves? How can you challenge the strong emotions a parent or any guardian / carer of a child can have towards a person like this???? Do you honestly expect us to feel sorry for them and have pity? Seriously????

Evey

 

[parttime crackhead]

Right, you have kids so you must be correct.

It's exactly the strong emotions that are the problem. HE HURT A KID KILL HIM KILL HIM DIE DIE DIE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. From what you're saying it would appear someone who doesn't have kids is far better placed to comment on this situation.

 

[Marmalade]

I don't see pity in what Shambles wrote, and he's someone VERY entitled and educated on the subject to form an informed opinion on these matters from what I know about him

No pity .... I see empathy, and understanding of humans and truth, and being able to cut through the shit to see the real issues at hand.

 

[ponch]

You can still think an act is wrong and even sickening without wanting to lynch someone you know, evey. As strange as it sounds.

 

[Shambles]

"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" - Gandhi

Think yer man The Baby Jesus had a somewhat different take to his overly-aggressive fatherself too didn't he? Aren't you supposed to be Christian? Why are you choosing the harsh version from the prequel instead of the more spiritually advanced main event? Turning of cheeks has class and makes a real statement. Poking people's eyes out is barbaric. Aren't you less than keen on Sharia Law as I recall, Evey? Can't be considered Christian or Jewish Law cos they don't practice what they preach (the eye-poking that is, cheek-turning has some support but not nearly enough) unlike those true-beliieving Saudis.

And yes and no I suppose. Obviously I wouldn't expect or have any particular desire to see the nation shed a tear for the poor toddler kicker when he's barely got his foot back on the ground. Rabid ranting for his bollocks on a spike is not exactly something to be wearing as a badge of honour and proof of superior malice aforethought than folk who find that all deeply distasteful. It's alll bluff and bluster spouting off about things no sane person would actually do so what is the point of it? Unless any of you really intend to break him out of prison to get yer freakiishness on with it's just letting off steam which I'm fairly sure isn't really and truly steaming from the person who most recently made the papers for doing terrible things to children - terrible things that are just a bit less terrible than what many of our more... keen citezenry would apparently choose to do if they could get away with it... but regains its more terrible status cos people who do not have a conscience in the same way don't give quite as much thought to the consequences. It's hardly a great moral highground to be able to say that the main difference between those who dream of torturing folk and the objects of those fantasy maimings is that they couldn't control themselves and the String 'Em Up by the Scrote Squad never got around to it cos they don't like the sound of prison. No conviction due to lack of conviction in your own convictions. Unless it's true intent in which case that would make those people very worrying indeed. Would also make them a muderer of the first degree. Which aspect of all that is the bit I should be applauding?

None of it cos it's all a bit viciously vindictive. Also not applauding the other way cos that way lies a toddler kicker to deather. Don't like those much either. Don't like 'em at all really. But that doesn't mean I can't understand that it simply isn't as simple as "evil" cunningly disguised as brain damage and (most likely) abusive childhood. Were these people evil children or innocent children when they were the ones being beaten and buttfucked? They still had the missing brain bit so probably the kid that nobody wants to sit next to in class but he's not kicked anybody of any age to death yet cos he's still only size 3 and four foot tall on tippytoes. At what point does defenceless innocent abused child wake up to find he's caught evil overnight? Is it acceptable to feel pity for the young and as yet innocent in the eyes of the law and the tabloids BabyKicker before he ever considered kicking any babies? Seems like it should be mandatory cos he's still just a kid being beaten and bummed so far which means we should be torturing the person doing that to him I would presume... but then there's a fairly good chance that you just find yourself in much the same situation only back another generation and with another innocent until starts bumming baby BabyKicker to play spot the entrance of evil with. In fact you'll probably find quite a lot of it for quite some time - like Russian dolls only with considerably more moral grey areas.

 

[alasdairm]

You can still think an act is wrong and even sickening without wanting to lynch someone you know, evey. As strange as it sounds.

it's not strange at all.

Nothing more than he deserves. An eye for an eye and all that....

I notice that those of you trying to actually DEFEND this waste of space don't have children yourselves? How can you challenge the strong emotions a parent or any guardian / carer of a child can have towards a person like this???? Do you honestly expect us to feel sorry for them and have pity? Seriously????

Evey

shambles beat me to the gandhi quote.

evey, parents don't have a monopoly of opinion on issues relating to children.

crudely characterising this as "those of you trying to actually DEFEND this waste of space" just polarises the issue in a you're-either-with-me-or-against-me
manner which makes having a real discussion of an important and troubling social issue impossible.

might seem like a bit of a cheap shot but you're also making all kinds of assumptions here (agreement 3) and taking this all a little personally (agreement 2).

what kind of lesson are we learning if the answer to violence is simply more violence? i tend agree with stonehappymonday and shambles.

"The degree of civilisation in a society is revealed by entering its prisons." (Fyodor Dostoyevsky)

alasdair

 

[Sammy G]

When I started replying to this thread post #30 wasn't but barely even a twinkle in your eye. You have no idea how long that took. Is certainly a bit stimranty (due to combination of stims and... not anger, more like somehwat exasperated disappointment that people still think that as long as you stick a big Evil badge on somebody it removes all responsibility - anything goes cos it's not like it's another human being not really so very different to all the others. Different for sure, not half as much as some would like to be the case though.

But yes, it's basically what you said only said at some considerablly convoluted length and riddled with repetition. Stimrant. But with actual and valid points lurking in amongst the background filler.

Didn't mean 'stimrant' in the derogotary sense, btw. Far from it. You said a lot of what I would've said had I not been half-awake, lazy and making pretty BLers blush stoned.

It was a well-thought-out, articulate stimrant.

 

[Ismene]

For gods sake think of the children.

 

[alasdairm]

evey, you really need to dial back the outrage.

i can only really speak for myself but, as far as i can tell, nobody here is defending this guy. nobody's sticking up for him. we're discussing what's happening - 'should' happen - to him as a result of his actions. i don't think anybody here doesn't think what he did was monstrous.

your posts in the thread suggest you're making assumptions and that you're not really reading what others are writing...



alasdair

 

[Shambles]

You apparantly haven't read and/or understand anything I've said then so would be a fairly pointless interaction if you're going to continue arguing with yourself like that - I do believe yourself, Issy and that big ol' straw chap you're both so very fond of could just as well continue discussing it amongst yourselves given there's not really much actual engagement involved anyway. You can get as angry and exasperated as you like about throwing parties for paedos or whatever it is you've dreamed up this time but it's still something you thought up that doesn't relate to anything anybody else has said. I could start getting all indignant about those elephants you want to be wiped from the face of the Earth. Would be just as relevant and make more or less the same sense.

Discussion and dialogue require more than one participant and doesn't really count if you play both sides unless you're Plato (okay, anybody using that format but fairly sure we're not that higjhbrow in an EADD thread entitled Sick Fuck Kicks Toddler).

That aside, I do hope you posted that first part knowing what that second quote is famously from and related matters. Would be a minor masterpiece - is anyway to be fair.

 

[Marmalade]

Shambles no offence but I can't talk to you as you always seem to defend these criminals like it's ok to do what they do.
Evey

There's a whole load of people who have expressed agreement with Shambles here, but haven't chipped in with an argument or comment because he does it so eloquently and pertinently.

That means an awful lot of people you perhaps can't talk to?

 

[alasdairm]

Shambles no offence but I can't talk to you as you always seem to defend these criminals like it's ok to do what they do.

absolutely nobody - nobody - in this thread has said that what this guy did was ok. nobody.

so you're just making this up and then getting annoyed by it. why are you doing that?

alasdair

 

[Shambles]

I don't want to read the article, nor the comments posted in this thread, but if this is true, then I hope this fuck gets what's coming to him in prison.

I fucking despise people who abuse kids. Get fucked.

Finally a bit of honest reaction - not interested in knowing what happened as long as he gets bummed and/or stabbed enough in prison. It's perhaps lacking in some areas but there's a lot to be said for just saying what is really the case. Actual stuff that is pertinent is all well and good but far too close to having to base moderately murderous desires on reasons that relate to things which all takes up time best spent with the straighforward hate & hope approach. Can even skip the personal indignation when there's stabby folk in prison who do stabby stuff anyway so may as well just leave them to it really. It's a small step up from wanting to do all the messy stuff yourself anyway.

 

[Shambles]

Better to get yourself locked up for violence than to not do that and stay at home with daughter showing her that whatever else may happen that love thing is more valuable - and far more practical really - than a moment's satisfaction before being separated from child and kept apart until she's maybe not a child anymore. The logic is flawless. I'm sure any child would want nothing more than to have their parent locked up through a very deliberate and calculated act of revenge solving nothing whatsoever except that moment of satisfaction. For you not for daughter obviously cos she'd be too young to be going the blood fued route probably.

It gets clearer and clearer just how obviously right you must be about this rage and revenge stuff. No possible downside to your flawless - and ingenious - plan to go twat somebody you've already decided needs twatting despite them not actually existing outside this fantasy of hurting your daughter you've decided upon. Truly I could not make this up but you feel free to carry on. Really quite educational in its own way.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Long post yes, but is a subject rather too close for comfort with my family and my history being what it is. Took a very long time to realise and accept that the more anger I had towards... people and things that were ultimately accidents of birth and unfortunate events - and were also very Bad Things cos the former are part of the reason but can never be excuses - the more anger held on to the closer I came to perhaps eventually crossing some line I really don't wish to cross and don't have quite those same... don't want to say mitigating factors... but I can't really think what else you would call them. The things - chance things - that make me me not he. The things that allow me to catch myself before I react and allow me some insight into the thoughts and feeings of others even when they don't have that capacity. I can't truly empathise with a lack of empathy cos that just can't happen anymore than it can the other way around, but I can see there is a difference and it is an important difference.

The more I've let go that anger and the closer I've come to... it's not forgiveness as such but is perhaps a level of acceptance that some people do things most of us would not do - and probably could not do for the most part - and that when deep down you know that the thought processes are not all there and working as they should do it ends up feeling really very hollow to cling too tightly to blame and bitterness and hatred above all else. It just takes you further away from the humanity lacking on some level in the person all that hatred is focussed on which has the unfortunate side-effect of emphasising the underlying similarity that is really very uncomfortable indeed to see and to know is there. The closer I edgre towards what probably will need to be actual forgiveness one day the more like me I feel and the less obvious those underlying similarities seem to be.

And one more thing whilst I'm prattling, mothers can be just as vicious I can assure you. And children ain't half as angelic and innocent as some may hope. I know I was an absolute shit when I was a child. Vicious, uncaring, manipulative and well aware of what I was doing - that's not innocence. At the same time I was a small boy in a less than ideal situation and was but a big ball of hate and anger and hurt. Feel much better without it and really wasn't quite as bitter a pill to swallow as I'd imagined. Now that person is not so very big, bad and scary - he's mostly a bit pitiful and also pitiable. Still a scumbag but I don't think he got to choose to be that way so seems unneccessary to focus on that bit as intensely as I did for so long.

And will now go do something other than this for a while. Think I must've needed to get something out my system

As requested I've had another these of these posts. I take on bored what you are saying n some of it makes sense. However, anyone involving the mistreatment of children n possible empathy towards the "perpetrator" is too closs to home for me. So for that reason I aologise for over-reacting towards you n not fully reading.

I do, however, admire the way you can take a look at different view points n give a balanced n constructive argument on the matter.

Sorry for my anger - it was misplaced n I own it.

Evey

 

[Eveleivibe]

evey, you really need to dial back the outrage.

i can only really speak for myself but, as far as i can tell, nobody here is defending this guy. nobody's sticking up for him. we're discussing what's happening - 'should' happen - to him as a result of his actions. i don't think anybody here doesn't think what he did was monstrous.

your posts in the thread suggest you're making assumptions and that you're not really reading what others are writing...



alasdair

I think he should be locked up where he can no longer hurt anyone n be given extensive anger management.

Evey

 

[alasdairm]

...be given extensive anger management.

he's not the only one

alasdair

 

[Eveleivibe]

he's not the only one

alasdair

Hehehe I wouldn't really kill someone - I couldn 't be violent if I tried. My anger's verbal (or written) still would be nice not to have any anger (temper) at all hence my love of codeine. I really envy people who don't seem to have anger in them. It's a horrible, destructive force that spreads like a cancer.

Anyway I'm going off topic. We've had a lot of these incidence in many years against children n it's part of the reason I decided no longer to watch/read the news. Far too much sorrow n negativity in the world - n hearing of children hurt or killed is upsetting.

Evey

 

[Shambles]

The magic of actual interaction - we still don't agree completely perhaps but were a darn sight closer than it might have looked at times. And actually we're not so very far off on the sticking point retained cos I said something about that earler. I would suggest it is a process - and I do believe it is probably the "natural" one despite counterintuitiveness. Natural in the sense that it does seem to work out better for all concerned and just in general. If something really does make you feel a lot better about certain things - over time of course, took many, many years before I noticed it was kinda happening anyway and no matter how much I tried kicking against it that never did anything but make me feel worse. Did have those fleeting momemts of doing something really quite nasty - generally to myuself not to anybody else cos has long been my way - and being really pleased with myself for proving to myself just what terrible things and what grievious - and utterly unforgivable cos that would be backing down somehow - letting the prick off easy.

At some point I couldn't stop that really annoying thing that kept rtying to point out that actually that person hadn't been within 100miles of me in 20-odd years and the only person still hurting me was me. As soon as it really clicked that that type of situation when young can mess with your head to the point you almost do what you think "should" be done to you cos are so tied up (or bound up perhaps) in it all abd lost all perspective. I'd been doing his dirty work for years without ever noticing there was nobody else with such determination and ability to keep picking at the juiceir scabs for decades after the original ones - physical or metaphorical - had gone the way scabs and old wounds in general tend to go. Itch and niggle and are rally hard to ignore even when the obviously acutely damaged area has rebuilt itself anew - bit less pristine and faultless in some ways perhaps but mostly stronger and probably better for it cos the more persisitent and bigger ones need to put the groundwork in before the surface and it's those foundational bits that have all the strength cos they took time to get right and to gain enough of that the wobbliness and shaky nature of less strongly woven foundations tend to have. The very top surface bit might have ghostly marks left behiind but that is all they are cos are but skin deep now.

Still got things that are... challenging to not just be immensely pissed off about with no obvious end in sight nor pressingly obvious need to change cos some things piss people off for very good reason. But I also know that no matter how much pissed offedness I can muster it can't go any further than me and maybe anybody in the immediate viciinty at most. Or anybody within sloshing a bit of that excess pissed offness at for incredibly flimsy excuses at best usuallly. Cos not pissed off with them and not even completely sure I'me still really that pissed off with original source of all pissed offness in all its many variations. Suspecc I may just be pissed off that I know being pissed off essentially for the sake of being pissed off at this point is really not doing much of any value and is probably doing more to harm me than anybody else even if mild harm compared to some things that somehow slipped awaty one weight pinning me in a place I physically left behind decades ago but never really leaves cos it was always in me not out there somewhere. Was forcibly inflicted on me at times perhaps - didn't originate with me but as soon a I made it my home it rather disappeared from scrutiny and even awareness for a very long time.

These things - quite a number of things - did quite real damage for qutte some time. They can't do taht anymore cos it's been me at the controls for well over twice as long as anybody else got to manipulate at will. I don't forgive - slowly and in stages with bits not quite as forgiven and other bits frankly long forgotten now - it's not for his benefit. There may be some side-effect that's in some way beneficial to him in some way but I don't know what it would be cos haven't had reason or desire to see him since the first oppurtunity we had to get far enough away he couldn't be arsed to come hunt us down again. Just under 20 miles in this case apparently. May as well be 20 light years or any other really big thing - or really small thing - any thing really cos is not present in my life except for the bits I still hold on to even though I really don't like the chap one little bit.

I do now know a little of his own formative years though and do know a bit more about various... differences that are less obvious when under their most intensive control - the actual outside interference that is long since gone. Still don't like him cos he's a nasty, vicious, vindictive shit of a man - plus his even more delightful surprise bonus reasons to really, really dislike him immensely (kept those all to himself (hopefully anyway)) til another unsuspecting family group came along that better suited his... requirements in some areas. Oddly enough it was when all that came out that the change in attittude really kicked in a bit. That would be something positive brought about by something spectacularly negative fo those more closely assocaited with it. You really don't ever know what effect a thing - any given thing good bad or indifferent... on the surface level anyway - not till it's already happened right around somewhere very close by but never obvious quite what it did nor where. Just the aftershocks - afterglows even - rippling from somewhere out of reach cos not meant to be fiddled with incautiously by whim or by accident or by mistake or by others.

Certainly wasn't what I was planning to be getting up to and on with as some kind of weirdly celebratrory wallowing in somebody else's misery cos it could've been mine. It's very hard to sustain those ways of thinking once spotted out in the open like that. Especially when as each one goes wherever it goes things don't feel quite as bad - also slowly and also not straightline straight up, but a trend does seem to be very closely linked to letting go of things other people used to break bits of me. Seems they can more or less heal themselves when in suitable envorinment to do so and not picked at quite so persistently.

 

[alasdairm]

I really envy people who don't seem to have anger in them. It's a horrible, destructive force that spreads like a cancer.

with respect, evey, your posts are all over the place on this issue. one second you're criticising people for not wanting to lynch this guy, the next you're saying almost the opposite.

Far too much sorrow n negativity in the world - n hearing of children hurt or killed is upsetting.

i'm a big believer in the idea that about 10% of life is what actually happens to you (in a holistic sense). the other 90% is how you choose to deal with it..

agreement #2: don't take anything personally

time for the weekend.

alasdair