Shroomie doomz!!!!!

[James707]

does doing shrooms on a recovery period from MDMA mess with the recovery?
please help with info cause im 4 weeks strong and thinking about getting down this weekend and i dnt want all that time saved up to be wasted....

 

[WorldWarMe]

No, you will be fine. Enjoy the shrooms.

 

[MazDan]

Yes of course it will affect the recovery.

Anything other than good sleep, good food and good exercise will affect it.

 

[smellytim]

xxx

 

[pallidamors]

maybe itll mess (subjective) with the recovery. but it shouldnt really do anything to make the time you saved up be wasted. they are very different drugs.

They're different, but they do both have impacts on your serotinergic systems. MDMA causes release of serotonin, among other neurotransmitters, and psilocybin/psilocin binds a specific set of serotonin receptors. So, we can assume that part of the recovery from an MDMA binge involves returning receptor levels to normal, and taking shrooms during this recovery time would slow the rate at which the receptors can do this. So its not only subjective, there's objective reasons that it will mess with your recovery and make the recovery process take longer.

 

[smellytim]

xxx

 

[MazDan]

Yeah my answer was more related to the recovery which is what was asked.
My answer would have been the same had the OP substituted alcohol or speed or staying up all night watching television.

I will defer to people such as Palliadamors who has a much better understanding of the mechanics than I do in regards to the aspect your asking tim.

 

[socalrollin]

yea dont stay up too late watching tv if your recovering from mdma use.....bwahahaha

youll be fine my man enjoi the mushies

 

[Godzilla]

how would a receptor agonist slow the rate at which receptors can recover? if something is bound to a receptor can it not still be returning to normal? sorry im just looking for more info on the science.

i was under the impression that since the mechanisms of action are different and there is no cross tolerance there wouldnt be an issue here. ideally should someone add another month onto a break if they do a psych in the middle of it?

also if someone has abused ecstasy would their shroom/lsd trips be noticeably worse? and will they get better as time passes?

sorry for the hijack. i think its at least (subjectively ) pertinent to the OP though.

Nice!!! I havent researched exactly how each of these durgs work.
Questions like do they work on the same receptor, and do they work pre or post synaptically are a start.

In answer to your question receptors do recover. But the process is more like this.
You have a specific receptor for a specific ligand that attaches to that receptor. Now if there is a flood of a particular ligand then your receptors for the ligand will down regulate = less of them... ( its like the receptor says well since there is so much of X then I dont need to have this many receptors anymore) so the amount of receptors down regulates. You normally see this with chronic use / abuse of a certian drug.

Now if X works presynaptically then that is a different story. and receptor downregulation of the receptors is not the problem we are looking at.


Ill try to read up about exactly how MDMA works and report back.

 

[RGB]

Now if X works presynaptically then that is a different story. and receptor downregulation of the receptors is not the problem we are looking at.

Ill try to read up about exactly how MDMA works and report back.

To save you having to look it up, MDMA does work presynaptically, but not on autoreceptors. Instead, it acts as a releasing agent of serotonin (and DA, NE as well, but not with the same efficiency) by reversing the serotonin reuptake transporter (SERT). SERT normally clears the synaptic cleft of serotonin by allowing excess serotonin to be reuptaken back into the presynaptic neuron, where it waits for another action potential to release it. When MDMA binds to SERT, it induces a conformational change that causes serotonin inside the neuron to be released out of the transporter. In this case, the presynaptic neuron doesn't have to be stimulated by an action potential to induce the release, so serotonin continues to spill out of the transporter until the synaptic cleft is saturated with it.

As for the OP's question, I don't think that mushrooms will have a significant effect on your tolerance. It's true that any binding to a GCPR will induce some level of downregulation, but the doses of psilocybin are so low and so selective/effective that the resulting downregulation is minor. You'll probably experience a 2-3 day tolerance period after using mushrooms during which you'd need higher doses to achieve the same effect, but aside from that you should be fine.

 

[pallidamors]

how would a receptor agonist slow the rate at which receptors can recover? if something is bound to a receptor can it not still be returning to normal? sorry im just looking for more info on the science.

i was under the impression that since the mechanisms of action are different and there is no cross tolerance there wouldnt be an issue here. ideally should someone add another month onto a break if they do a psych in the middle of it?

also if someone has abused ecstasy would their shroom/lsd trips be noticeably worse? and will they get better as time passes?

sorry for the hijack. i think its at least (subjectively ) pertinent to the OP though.

by "returning to normal" i meant downregulation of postsynaptic receptors, which usually occurs when there is less activity at said receptors. so throwing in a potent agonist like shrooms is going to keep those receptors active, make the brain assume that it still needs them, and slow the rate at which they are downregulated.

As far as the shroom/lsd trips being "worse" after ecstasy abuse, I'm not sure if they'd be subjectively worse, but they would be noticeably less intense. the mechanisms of action are different but there is SOME cross tolerance, i'm just not sure to what degree. basically since MDMA dumps serotonin into synapses, it indirectly causes agonist activity at 5HT2A, which is also the direct mechanism of action of psilocybin/psilocin. However MDMA also has effects on a much wider range of 5HT subsets, as well as DA and NE activity, so the cross tolerance wouldn't be total.

 

[RGB]

As far as the shroom/lsd trips being "worse" after ecstasy abuse, I'm not sure if they'd be subjectively worse, but they would be noticeably less intense. the mechanisms of action are different but there is SOME cross tolerance, i'm just not sure to what degree. basically since MDMA dumps serotonin into synapses, it indirectly causes agonist activity at 5HT2A, which is also the direct mechanism of action of psilocybin/psilocin. However MDMA also has effects on a much wider range of 5HT subsets, as well as DA and NE activity, so the cross tolerance wouldn't be total.

I've been wondering about this myself. My pet theory is that, like you said, the excesses of serotonin released by MDMA would downregulate 5-HT2a and lead to a diminished trip. Since 5-HT2a isn't really pivotal to the MDMA experience, I imagine that doing the psychedelic first and then MDMA might be better.

What do you think? I'd also love to hear from people who've tried both orders to see if there's any subjective difference.

 

[pallidamors]

^I'd agree about doing the psychedelic first producing better results due to 5-HT2a not being so important in the grand scheme of the MDMA experience. Also, I'm not sure on this, but I think tolerance builds more slowly to shrooms than to MDMA; that is, a single dose of shrooms wouldn't produce a noticeable increase in tolerance whereas one night of MDMA could. That'd be another good reason to take the psychedelic beforehand.

Unfortunately I've never combined the two, but I'd like to hear some anecdotal experiences as well!

 

[M Brace]

What do you think? I'd also love to hear from people who've tried both orders to see if there's any subjective difference.

In my experience, there's definitely a cross tolerance.

I've taken 3g of mushrooms 24 hours after taking mdma. Disappointing. That much shrooms should've blown me away, but the trip was very muted: few visuals, no head trip, just a little buzz.

The other way around seems to make the roll mellow, but less than satisfying... unless I've taken just a small amount of mushies the day before mdma. Priming the engine?

Generally speaking, I think you need to put at least a couple of weeks between the two to get the most out of either. If you want to enjoy both on a weekend, might as well take 'em together.

 

[Godzilla]

by "returning to normal" i meant downregulation of postsynaptic receptors, which usually occurs when there is less activity at said receptors. so throwing in a potent agonist like shrooms is going to keep those receptors active, make the brain assume that it still needs them, and slow the rate at which they are downregulated.

As far as the shroom/lsd trips being "worse" after ecstasy abuse, I'm not sure if they'd be subjectively worse, but they would be noticeably less intense. the mechanisms of action are different but there is SOME cross tolerance, i'm just not sure to what degree. basically since MDMA dumps serotonin into synapses, it indirectly causes agonist activity at 5HT2A, which is also the direct mechanism of action of psilocybin/psilocin. However MDMA also has effects on a much wider range of 5HT subsets, as well as DA and NE activity, so the cross tolerance wouldn't be total.

I hope not to create an argument but the first paragraph is wrong.
Downregulation happens with an abundance of a certain ligand or Neuro transmitter in the synapse. The receptors down regulate ( less of them)

I did take the time to read about MDMA and its effects are mainly presynaptic and with the serotonin reuptake transporter. The loss of magic or depression ect is a result of depleation of serotinin this happens becasue the presynaptic Neuron is depleted of its serotonin stores and the mechanism of regenerating seotonin is a slow process. I dont think that downregulation plays a large role in occasional use but will play a large role in Abuse.

 

[RGB]

I hope not to create an argument but the first paragraph is wrong.
Downregulation happens with an abundance of a certain ligand or Neuro transmitter in the synapse. The receptors down regulate ( less of them)

Not exactly sure how to word this, but psilocin is acting as a ligand in this case, or at least it has ligands that constitute it which are stimulating the receptor. The definition of "ligand" depends on whether you're talking about the precise method by which binding occurs, in which case ligands are the functional groups that are actually involved in the binding. In the more common sense, I was under the impression that "ligand" can refer to the entire molecule that's activating the receptor.

Actually, I'd be thankful if someone with more chemistry knowledge could let me know if I'm on the right track.

 

[James707]

i already ate up 2.5 grams last weekend and let me tell u it was great! i never got more visuls than i did at this time! tripping balls seen a chrome plated falcon with lazer beams shooting around it and it was awsome all i could say was fucking wow!