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should I use Psychedelic when I'm young?

^^
Mitch, if you are 15 and first used Ecstasy at age 12, you obviously aren't going to be feeling the negative effects yet.

When your teenage energy and feelings of endless possibilities for yourself begin to fade, you will begin to realize the consequences of whatever actions you may have made.
 
yeah, if you're going to trip despite the warnings, please do not use MDMA until your brain is fully formed. Seriously.
 
I first dosed LSD when I was 13. Took it quite a few times, and I honestly believe some of my social anxiety stems from one specific trip that I recall quite vividly. Still to this day I can feel a little anxiety in social situations, although not nearly as bad, but it did take a while for me to get over it (and I still am working through it). Not saying that would happen to you but at such an early age a trip can have a significant impact, and possibly negative, on your personality in the long run. Be safe.
 
I didn't use anything really until I was 28. No not even weed or alcohol. So you might think I'm not qualified to say anything.

But to be honest, I think it's up to you. It's not like anyone can stop you if you're really determined anyway. But the thing is are you prepared for the consequences if it turns out to be a mistake? I know people say 14 year olds don't think about that but I hate generalizing statements. It comes down to personal choice, but that implies personal responsibility.

For me, sex at 13 probably messed me up as bad as any drug might at that point. And these days there's so much crap in the food that gives me problems now who knows what it does to someone still growing. I still think my dopamine problem stems from being fed a ton of pseduoephedrine daily for allergies by my parents for years. I don't think I even need to start on how kids are given all kinds of ADD/ADHD/antidepressant meds at younger and younger ages. I've got several friends who are permanently messed up from being overmedicated.

But the difference is most of that stuff is given to kids without their consent. Some may argue at 14 you're not able to consent. I'm not so sure, considering until the last couple hundred years most people were starting families of their own around that age, and we didn't exactly get wiped off the map as a species.

So, I think you need to ask yourself if you're ready or not. Do you think you're ready to deal with your own mistakes, and not have your parents or someone else fix them for you? Because if you damage your mind they may not be able to no matter how much either you or they want to. Being an adult isn't about not being able to drive, drink, vote, getting a degree, needing a job, etc. It's about being responsible for cleaning up your own messes. That's the price of being able to make your own decisions.
 
only u can decide wat u think u should do.there r people alot older than u on this forum who r not necassarily more mature so i dont no if age haz much 2 do with it.its at least probly good 2 make sure if u use them 2 use a safe dosage az if true 4 people of ne age.
 
Psychedelics aren't really something that I think a 14 year old could comprehend. At 14, I think kids should be studying hard, practicing a hobby or sport, and trying to get laid. Ya know, kid stuff. Psychedelics are really powerful tools, not something that I would ever entrust to a 14 year old; no matter how mature they seem to be.
 
I think the real question is, Shouldn't you be doing Psychedelics when you're young? Your pineal gland is most active when you're young. I'm only 16 and I'm pretty sure I've got a hell of a lot more out of life than an old fart who's never done a psychedelic when they were young, and now they're old. Get the point? Live young, die fast, experience everything while you can. PEACE, oh and make sure you plan your trip budd, don't just randomly take like 5 grams of mush one day, randomly. You want to learn from the trip, not mush your brain. Just a thought. =]
 
Roger&Me said:
Psychedelics aren't really something that I think a 14 year old could comprehend. At 14, I think kids should be studying hard, practicing a hobby or sport, and trying to get laid. Ya know, kid stuff. Psychedelics are really powerful tools, not something that I would ever entrust to a 14 year old; no matter how mature they seem to be.

So what exactly can a 14 year old comprehend or not comprehend? By 14 I'd had 3 years to work on and generalize the fundamentals of calculus I'd independently reinvented at 11. I'd also gotten laid at 13 through sheer luck and was miserable about my inability to repeat the experience (which wouldn't happen for almost another 5 years). Maybe if I'd tried psychedelics back then I'd have been a bit more able to work out some issues and not try to attempt suicide a couple times due to my social anxiety and an unfulfilled sex drive that nearly drove me insane (I seriously considered castrating myself to make it stop). Then again maybe they would have made things worse. Who can say? But I don't think you can just generalize and say no 14 year old can comprehend or properly use these tools.

Of course then there's the argument that kids don't think about the future or the consequences of their actions. This is wrong. They just don't think about it on the same scale as adults do much of the time. But not all adults think of it on the same scale as each other either. How many adults do you know are constantly thinking how their actions today affect themselves more than a year out? 5 years? 10 years? How many are counting on being able to cheat death by some medical miracle? How many are positioning themselves to have the funds to be first on the long line for a very small number of chances to get an extension? How many of those have figured out even if we do solve that problem it's going to be a short reprieve before things like overpopulation, resource/energy shortages, and unequal distribution of wealth become significant problems? How many do you know actively working towards plans to get out of here before the next major asteroid hits? Or yellowstone erupts? Or the climate goes over the waterfall towards venus or mars? Or the sun expands in its next lifecycle stage and BBQs us?

The other major argument is usually "Kids are still developing, and psychedelics may distort or impair that development." Yes, they might. Or they might improve it. Or they might not change anything at all. Have you read the ingredients labels on half the food marketed to kids these days? Have you seen half the ADHD meds they're pumping them full of? If you know parents who are avoiding that then I applaud their efforts, but I doubt they're the norm anymore. Can we honestly argue with a straight face that these known psychoactive chemicals administered to them without their consent are perfectly fine, but the ones a kid might want to try themselves are not? The damage is already being done. This may do more, or it may undo some of it. There's no way to tell. We just don't have the understanding of neuropharmacology to accurately model exactly what the effects will be. There are too many variables and too many unknowns.

So it basically comes down to random chance. And in that case, it becomes whether or not the person who wants to take these drugs feels the benefits justify the risk and is prepared to accept the consequences. That's really it. There isn't another qualifier that can be used. If you're going to argue they lack the judgment due to inexperience, well here's a way to get some experience real fast so they'll have that judgment way earlier than they would otherwise. And if that's not a benefit I don't know what is. But the price may be high, and they need to understand that.

Considering that courts have allowed sex changes for both boys and girls as young as 12 in multiple countries, I think saying no 14 year old is capable of a legitimate decision on using psychedelics is going to fall flat. The question then becomes, how do we determine whether or not they're properly prepared for it? In the case of sex reassignment there's usually quite a lot of boxes to check first and they involve both medical and legal issues. But then that's also an irreversible procedure, and much harder to do discretely, and thus less likely to be done by a kid on their own without parental knowledge if not consent.

But BL is not a court or a government or anyone's parents. So we have no authority to say whether this is allowed or not. All we can really do is advise. And I don't think "No everyone below age X is too young" is going to be very well accepted advice. It's generally not with regard to things like sex and alcohol. So if we really want to reduce harm, we'll need to come up with another line, and possibly something that can serve as a guide to help these people make good choices. As for what that is, I'm sure it'd be a massive debate raging for hundreds of posts and might never end.
 
Gldm, have I ever told you I <3 you? awesome, thought provoking post. :)

alot of the posts in this thread, no matter which "side" they took, have been thoughtful and come from a standpoint of respect. kudos, PD!
 
It would be a good idea, in my opinion, to wait on trying the harder psychedelics at such a young age. Plenty of people smoke pot and take opiates at a young age, which I did not do but plenty of my friends started at that age, but taking lsd or mushrooms would not be a wise choice.

Your brain needs to fully develop to actually enjoy and get the most out of those drugs and at 14, its just not there yet. Besides, at 14 I always saved my money for videogames, drugs are expensive!
 
PsiLura said:
I think the real question is, Shouldn't you be doing Psychedelics when you're young? Your pineal gland is most active when you're young. I'm only 16 and I'm pretty sure I've got a hell of a lot more out of life than an old fart who's never done a psychedelic when they were young, and now they're old. Get the point? Live young, die fast, experience everything while you can. PEACE, oh and make sure you plan your trip budd, don't just randomly take like 5 grams of mush one day, randomly. You want to learn from the trip, not mush your brain. Just a thought. =]

If you really want to know, psychedelics are a lot better once you have reached maturity and the kind of stability in life that is rarely attainable as a teenager.

With age does come wisdom. And with wisdom comes a peaceful tripping mind and greater ease in navigating states of altered consciousness. Why do you think we all look up to B9 around here? =D

Tripping may have been more earth shattering when I was younger, but its a hell of a lot chiller these days.
 
BD one possible and likely factor in the "chiller" nature of your tripping experience now is probably the fact that you're now more experienced with psychedelics. I know Xorkoth has always said that the more he tripped for long periods of time, the less earth-shattering it got.

just a thought. :)
 
bluedolphin said:
If you really want to know, psychedelics are a lot better once you have reached maturity and the kind of stability in life that is rarely attainable as a teenager.

With age does come wisdom. And with wisdom comes a peaceful tripping mind and greater ease in navigating states of altered consciousness. Why do you think we all look up to B9 around here? =D

Tripping may have been more earth shattering when I was younger, but its a hell of a lot chiller these days.

the trip depends on everything, not just how old you are. Obviously if you are in an unstable mindstate you are going to have one fucked up trip. With experience does come wisdom, age is just something you measure your experience with. You think a 100 year old tourtise will have more knowledge than a 14 year old who's experienced a mind altering drug? No, because the turtle knows only what it knows unless it subjects itself to such experiences. If you can't handle life when you're 14 when will you learn to handle it?
 
I first tried LSD at 15 and I definitely dont regret it, but I was lucky. I now realize how powerful psychedelics can really be and if I encountered the intensity that has occurred numerous times when I was 15 im sure I would have flipped out and done something not right, at age 13-14 I probably would have killed myself. Heck I flipped out pretty bad on some stuff lately and I didnt know what to do.

Id just stick to smoking pot every now and then for a few years until your brain has physically matured more.
 
I tried LSD when 18.. i was able to handle it pretty smoothly.. although i had a 16yr old friend who just loose's it every time.. he's the only one that cant seem to handle it.. myself and my friends who are 20.. have a wonderful time on it.. yet he thinks too much on it, which then force's him to preach to us about how 'bad' acid is.. which just frustrates me after a while because i have him in my ear complaining the entire time.. which sends my trip elsewhere.

I dunno if its to do with age or just his mindstate.. i've noticed he constantly feels guilty for doing acid without his parents knowing.. and im sure this has some negative effect on his trip.

But i gotta say im ALOT more mentally developed between now and when i was 14.. i think i'd would of probably freaked trying acid at 14, but i also dont know you.. so i cant really give an answer hehe.
 
Gldm, that was a very thought-provoking post. I enjoyed reading it. However, I'm still going to stick to my opinion that the vast majority of young teenagers shouldn't be using psychedelics. Of course there are some teenagers that are very mature for their age; I used to think I was one of them (I wasn't the mini-Leibniz that you were at 11, Gldm, but I wasn't exactly a simpleton :D). Please remember, though, that just because a child is intelligent doesn't mean that they are ready to be using strong psychedelics -- it might even be worse for them than a less intelligent child, due to the sheer power of their own mind.

There are very few teenagers that I've met, even having gone to one of the hardest and most prestigious prep schools in my state, that were actually more mature than their peers. Intelligence does not equal maturity; maturity is gained through life experience. There surely must be a few exceptionally mature teenagers that could easily benefit from psychedelics; but then again there must be a few exceptionally mature youngsters that would be irreparably harmed by using psychedelics. And furthermore, how could one ever know how they would react to psychedelic drugs? I think it would be most prudent to leave such a powerful and unpredictable variable out of the equation until ones brain had physiologically developed to a more stable point (such as is reached in early to mid adulthood). Relative to this point, I feel the same way about other, more popular, drugs such as amphetamines which are being given to kids both with and without their consent. Its not right, and I'm glad you brought up that point. I'm certain that medicating children with amphetamines and other powerful drugs will hinder a child's mental development more than most people realize.

There are better ways for young people to work through their issues than by haphazardly ingesting powerful drugs. Parents should know this; children and teenagers should be taught this. But unfortunately, they aren't.

Perhaps I'm not coming from a place of purely deductive, logical reasoning; in fact, I would venture to say that my approach on this issue is more based on what probability theorist E.T. Jaynes called intuitive, or plausible, reasoning -- which in most cases closely approximates the conclusion of the deductive approach, although is arrived at through differing processes. It seems very plausible that most young teenagers would be better off waiting until they are older to use psychedelic drugs. I'm pretty sure I could represent that probabilistically if I could be fucked to do the work.

I can tell you this, though: the long-lasting changes that psychedelics have caused in my personality (although positive), are much too drastic to be forcing on a young person. I think if I had used psychedelics when I was younger, I might have been very scared and disconcerted; possibly even gone crazy, or worse. It takes a certain level of maturity to be able to handle the complete de-construction and re-assembly of reality -- therefore, I think its safe to generalize that such pursuits are best left to folks with a bit more life-experience.

:)
 
^^
Your last paragraph echoes my thoughts exactly. Or rather, perhaps, I echo your thoughts. As I have to say you are one of the most helpful, quality-information giving members of our little community.
 
Oh I also agree that the majority should not be messing with psychedelics at that age. I just have a moral objection to broad-stroke prohibitions on the basis of a factor like age, because I feel they dehumanize and oversimplify the problem, as well as deprive people of individual liberty.

Also, we've see how age-based control of alcohol is a pretty big failure here in the US. In the interest of harm reduction, I think it might be worth having a discussion here on BL on what alternatives we can use when giving people like the OP advice on the subject. Because it's obvious we're not stopping them, but maybe there's a way we can at least get them to think a bit more about it.

Suggestions? Separate thread?
 
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