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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Should heroin addicts be forced to pay for their own 'treatment'?

Every view makes the whole. Taking only one side of a view creates distortion. In order to truly learn and grow we should always consider every view however far from our own.

consumer - for me and my joy using LSD and to some degree MDMA is its ability to give me loss of ego and opening of the mind to others and thoughts I could not or did not sometimes wish to consider. Even if I don't necessarily agree.

Those are the lessons I learned from my drug taking. Opening of my mind to the world around me. Cocaine well that one we all know is a one way straight of self gratification (although enjoyable ?)

We can only ever be truly going forward if we are willing to open our minds to things which we don't necessarily want to consider.

We don't have to agree but we are informed. Informed of others moving around this same existence and realising that we must all cooperate and communicate as one to progress towards true consciousness.

Alas we also need to realise that aggression may also be present when we listen to to others, but usually anger comes with a reason.

Clearly now we can see that Ms Community has reason for his / her comments and therefore by addressing Ms community as a human being and trying to understand the principle gives us all a better understanding of the whole picture and the world around us. Ms community makes us more knowledgeable and I believe he / her also feels the same. Their is a place here for two parties with differing views surely?
 
Itsgoneundertheboa said:
Their is a place here for two parties with differing views surely?
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Not really. There is room for healthy, constructive debate and differing views on specific areas of discussion, but only as long as the views are pro - druggies, as this is, to be frank, a community that rightly or wrongly, loves using drugs and celebrates their usage.
 
This is a community which has lost plenty of drug users who supposedly had the knowledge and experience necessary to use drugs 'safely'. Surely in light of that, we can accept that an objective analysis of drug use provokes healthy debate?
 
Nearly everyone here, myself included, knows someone close to them who has died because of drugs, or has watched helplessly as friends fall into a downward spiral of destructive behaviour, yes, it leaves you with a feeling of helplessness; my instinctive reaction is not to go after drug dealers, brutalise addicts or any of that intellectually castrated macho bullshit.

There is a better way to do something useful and constructive if you could only direct your anger and distress in the right way.
 
Community Justice said:
This is a community which has lost plenty of drug users who supposedly had the knowledge and experience necessary to use drugs 'safely'. Surely in light of that, we can accept that an objective analysis of drug use provokes healthy debate?
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We provide as much harm reduction as we can to the board members who are all current or former drug users, and we monitor the drug taking behaviour of our members through their regular self reporting of their drug experiences. This allows us to target board members (of whom we all share with generally a courteous relationship which has had sufficient time to build through our familiarity with each other) who report what is blatantly reckless drug use, we will give specific advice on the risks that they are taking. As they know that we all love getting smashed and have all been silly and reckless at some point in our lives (which they would have learnt from us sharing the awful consequences some of us have had to face due to our own stupid, high risk behaviour) they will sometimes actually take our advice when we make posts asking so and so to 'please stop what your doing now else you are likely to die' and have then gone to personal lengths to encourage the poster to keep posting, regardless of what he or she is still taking, as we don't think any less of them for it and they should know. All we can do is keep trying to engage them online to assess their level of consciousness and coherance, to see if the situation is getting worse or better. We can't do much more than this on a practical level, but these episodes are often transient and often relate to a personal trauma that improves with time.

Thats probably the best thing we can do. Collectively we use every major drug on this particular forum, The European and African Drug Discussion, from Heroin and Cocaine - to LSD and Ecstasy - and discuss their use in depth - sharing harm reduction advice as it becomes relevant. At other times we simply celebrate good drug experiences, the best ones challenge your view on the human condition while others connect you closer to the human race than could be imagagined . Does the fact that drugs were involved invalidate what these people percieve as a large and mysterious universe that is difficult to tackle at the best of times? Why are other risk taking activities permitted, largely by people who want to experience a 'natural rush' like Skydiving, or from free climbing some 4000 foot rock in Nevada (something that the drug Heroin, whos unprescibed IV use is also a high risk activity, mimics perfectly).

So, what Im saying is that their arn't many folk here who want to discuss the pro's and con's of drug use in general. Some of us have already given up drugs, some are ready to give up drugs, and some will continue to use drugs, and ultimately some of those will die, as it is an occupational hazard of drug use, something that people accept when they realise that they are more likely to die by going outside. Im not going to continue with that one but think 'motorcar'.

Their are recovery forums within Bluelight which people will find when they are ready but this is the snake pit mate. I appreciate you having a go but you are dealing with some hardcore drugged up fuckups here mate, who have heard it all a million times before. Good luck convincing one of them to stop taking drugs for the rest of their lives - if you do you will make a fortune sharing your majik secret with the medical community.
 
I think that heroin addicted should get treatment free of charge , I myself have come close to suicide many times due to addiction.
over here in Australia to see the doctor is free but daily dosing cost can range from 4-8$ . I pay 5$ a day so that's 140$ a month . It's much better then 200$ a day
 
Surely the reluctance of forum users to shed their blinkers makes this even more fertile ground for the dissemination of ideas? Even if they question some people's beliefs?
 
Itsgoneundertheboa said:
Every view makes the whole. Taking only one side of a view creates distortion. In order to truly learn and grow we should always consider every view however far from our own.

consumer - for me and my joy using LSD and to some degree MDMA is its ability to give me loss of ego and opening of the mind to others and thoughts I could not or did not sometimes wish to consider. Even if I don't necessarily agree.

Those are the lessons I learned from my drug taking. Opening of my mind to the world around me. Cocaine well that one we all know is a one way straight of self gratification (although enjoyable ?)

We can only ever be truly going forward if we are willing to open our minds to things which we don't necessarily want to consider.

We don't have to agree but we are informed. Informed of others moving around this same existence and realising that we must all cooperate and communicate as one to progress towards true consciousness.

Alas we also need to realise that aggression may also be present when we listen to to others, but usually anger comes with a reason.

Clearly now we can see that Ms Community has reason for his / her comments and therefore by addressing Ms community as a human being and trying to understand the principle gives us all a better understanding of the whole picture and the world around us. Ms community makes us more knowledgeable and I believe he / her also feels the same. Their is a place here for two parties with differing views surely?
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I get what you are saying Mr Boa but I lead a busy life and quite frankly i have expended enough energy reading and replying to Mr Community.

While he has toned down the aggressive nature of his posts when he first appeared using a different username (he has been banned twice) he did behave like a gung ho anti drug troll and i object when the same discussion creeps into multiple threads for no reason apart from attention.

If people want to debate then go for it. I dont need or intend to read anymore of it. My mind is indeed open. Working as a nurse exposes me to many things and all types of people. I get that we dont have to agree. Thats fine. If you think we need anti drug preaching in the forum thats fine too. I dont agree. Thats an opposing view too.

Anyway its 3:32 am here. I just woke up and i have no idea why i am on bluelight. This is all i have got to say on this matter and where i am leaving this discussion.
 
Community Justice said:
I don't think that the OP is arguing for an abandonment of the priciple of the NHS. It's more about revising our idea of what constitutes 'treatment'. If any other programme had the appalling failure rate of methadone maintenance, and was associated with as many social ills, it would have been discontinued long ago. I believe that even a system of quasi-legalisation - where addicts were able to purchase state-controlled heroin at zero subsidy from the taxpayer - would be preferable to the system which is currently in place. Certainly the principle of medicalised maintenance has been shown up as a dismal failure and a safety net for community-wrecking petty criminals.
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I was answering a previous post, my answer to the OP was in the edit (ie they already paid to a greater/lesser extent). Whether the OP (is it you?) was against the NHS or not, the general approach encouraged by the corporate media of using (fake) austerity to make us kick down and sideways instead of up is part of an overall strategy which will end in a private NHS (and loads else). To me being a socialist is primarily about helping people in trouble and looking after them, not telling them how to behave in private (authoritarianism has no place in socialism imv).

So are you saying you agree with drug decriminalisation generally, because that wasn't the impression i got (i'm assuming you're the same as the OP here correct me if i'm wrong). And any suggestion of 'community justice' meaning parochial vigilantism for me would discredit any sensible ideas you talked about i'm afraid (cos i'd be scared of you).
 
consumer said:
I get what you are saying Mr Boa but I lead a busy life and quite frankly i have expended enough energy reading and replying to Mr Community.

While he has toned down the aggressive nature of his posts when he first appeared using a different username (he has been banned twice) he did behave like a gung ho anti drug troll and i object when the same discussion creeps into multiple threads for no reason apart from attention.

If people want to debate then go for it. I dont need or intend to read anymore of it. My mind is indeed open. Working as a nurse exposes me to many things and all types of people. I get that we dont have to agree. Thats fine. If you think we need anti drug preaching in the forum thats fine too. I dont agree. Thats an opposing view too.

Anyway its 3:32 am here. I just woke up and i have no idea why i am on bluelight. This is all i have got to say on this matter and where i am leaving this discussion.
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Perils of forum participation in another time zone. You do a good job mate and know how difficult it can be.

I was a little harsh perhaps, just trying to point out we actually do generally uptake opposite ideas. We can and do listen, but sometimes we can be too quick to dispel away alternative or opposing views.

However it works both ways. If the other party doesn't at least acknowledge there could be a much wider view and continue with the same in fact using language of a harsh and aggressive nature after they have been welcomed to the community then job done.

As we were.

Negativity delivers nothing except negativity.

There have to be some positive to have a debate. Otherwise stalemate.

Reading other posts I am now in firm agreement attention seeking and looking for response is clear.

It's worse there are visions of grandeur, threats and insinuation supposedly of a multiple group rather than singularity and a stated purpose to cure or kill IE we are found to be an affliction we should be exterminated. a pre orchestrated operation. This guy / girl states they are on a crusade.

So no not a debate not ever going to be.

You were right brother.
 
Itsgoneundertheboa said:
It's worse there are visions of grandeur, threats and insinuation supposedly of a multiple group rather than singularity and a stated purpose to cure or kill IE we are found to be an affliction we should be exterminated. a pre orchestrated operation. This guy / girl states they are on a crusade.
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this. also totally anti-science and willing to engage in deceit by watering down the threats and insinuations after being repeatedly banned. The guy could probably benefit from seeing a psychoanalyst rather than taking out his impotence by arguing with people on the internet.
 
steewith2ees said:
Thank god Mr.Hankey has a temp ban
...
I know Im a sad humourless git
I know my posts are far from entertaining
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consumer said:
Me too brother. I really dont get his "humour".
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Lol.
Glad I could make u smile and bring a glimpse of light to your otherwise dark lives. :D

What comes to the topic, I definitely think heroin addicts should pay for their treatment.
Pay with their filthy blood.
You see, the world would be much better place if every heroin addict were completely drained out of all the dirty stinking blood they had in them.
Amen.
 
We've fed this shit now for 4 pages. Any chance of people just using the ignore button and letting the trolls die out.

Community justice is speaking out his rear end. He never experienced any of those things and came here initially to sell drugs. Got banned, and got angry about it...
 
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