• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Shamanic practices in the west

Zopiclone bandit

Zopiclone bandit

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
12,182
Whatever I say here is to be taken hypothetically, I would never break the law & I cannot help anyone or guide them to anything as I know nothing, I learned this all from a dog in a dream you know.

Is it just me or maybe I see the wrong stuff, adverts etc but I really think there are a very small few in the UK & possibly the rest of the Western world that can be called "real medicine men" I know of only one person that is/was based in London that I went to see once for Iboga to cure my heroin addiction & he was from Africia, to cut it short the real deal.

I know of a woman in Amsterdam that has been featured on a film by "DGS" I'll call him that has several corpses under her belt from using Ibogaine (pure) & to hear her speak or see her site etc she makes out she is some genius yet she is a fraud. I swear to God the words over here "Shamanic practices" or anything related to it are a pure scam, if it isn't a bunch of Hippy types sipping piss weak Yage you have people that really have no idea what they are doing & you may possibly die from their "medicine" shall I call it (well that's better than foul brain-poison I guess)

The day Lindsay Lohan did that piece for some woman's magazine barking on about Yage my newsfeed the next day was full of people that had only just heard of it & were asking about it on pages & coming out with all kinds on "New Age" hippy shite, thinking of trying it "to clean" their "spirit/soul" yet they had never even heard of The Teachings of Don Juan (Yeah I know it is fake btw) & wouldn't be able to point Peru out on a map let alone The Amazon.

You type most words related to these kinda things into Google & some of the rubbish that comes up based in the UK & Europe is a joke, I have even seen it linked to "Mindfulness" 8) Yet you were to mention smoking n,n DMT to any of these lot they would look at you blank or go off on some strange rant, let alone smoking a huge dose of Salvia in a dark room on your own.

Posting pictures of yourself wearing bird feathers in some strange hat & trying to look "native" when your photo would be more suited to a fashion magazine sure doesn't make you a Brujo, it makes you an idiot & an damn fraud.
 
Cosmopolitan magazine brought me here, I got a weekend retreat in Cornwall booked with Antoinette Bakerfield in July to heal me.

 
I live in the bay area . lots of great healers out here.
I've seen a few shamanic practitioners. Had some great experiences. Life changing. I would only go with them if i needed something , they are able to do more then the guys who do reiki,or the energy healer guys.
My soul retrieval changed me forever. Also some sort of clearing one guy did. Before i wasnt able to have orgasms , like real ones. probably related to sexual abuse as a child . also i had trouble speaking , like talking to people was hard for me.
The guy said he removed alot of .... I forgot what he called them , but he said i had alot in my abdomen and throat area. Which made a lot of sense to me. Probably some sort of energetic parasites ... Idk Changed me forever though. They can answer alot of questions to. Its nice to be able to speak with someone about different experiences I've had and not be ridiculed or called crazy or weird.
They all seem to believe in the same things just in different ways , if that makes sense .
Idk the people you have been dealing with. I have felt scammed though by a lady who charged a ridiculous amount of money . didn't do what I wanted. They all should basically be able to do the same things , if they are actual shamanic practitioners and legit.
Actually there's this one guy I found online , his website made me laugh , he was all dressed up in native American (nothing wrong with that ) its just the wording he used in his advertising , seemed silly and I wasn't buying it.
You gotta choose your person wisley . like I said , legit shamanic practitioners should all be able to do the same things easily. Guess I'm lucky to be in the bay area... But technically I don't think you need to see them in person. They should be able to give you a session over Skype and have the same effect
 
Heavily interested in having a soul retrieval but I do not even know where to start. Yomf, your post was very interesting
 
So if I did some SIgil work for a person to fall under a bus & break their leg because they have upset me & then around 2 months later after doing it & I forgot all about it I heard that person had had a weird turn one evening & "tripped" over into the road, broke their ankle & just missed being hit by a bus because they were pulled back by a friend it had nothing to do with what I had "cast"?..........
 
yompf said:
The guy said he removed alot of .... I forgot what he called them , but he said i had alot in my abdomen and throat area. Which made a lot of sense to me. Probably some sort of energetic parasites ... Idk Changed me forever though.
Click to expand...
Maybe also what's known as spirit attachments. Check out the books of William J. Baldwin and Edith Fiore. Fascinating stuff. Also Hostage to the Devil-Malachi Martin. Scary as fuck.

Shamans venture in the underworld to fight demons for the betterment of humanity. Real shamans don't use drugs. If one is meant to have experiences akin to a DMT or an ayahuasca trip then it should happen naturally through Work. Forcing your mind into these realms with drugs is like venturing into the jungle with no training or equipment. With that said sometimes drugs are the answer.

 
While I don't practice new age religious beliefs I do want to point out the use of psychedelic drugs isnt an issue. Psychedelics simply allow new neural connections to be formed and provide the potential for changing the way you think. Doing these once and then trying to find that connection again while sober is a questionable practice.

If you have a method of reaching altered states via meditation, running, mantra chanting etc and you don't want to use drugs, that's not a problem. If other people use drugs to open new neural pathways and repeat the use to re connect these same paths, it's really no different from the perspective of the chemistry happening in the brain. It's simply much harder to maintain an altered state for extended periods if you need to run a marathon each time you want a release of dopamine.

The second aspect of attaining altered states is often glossed over. Once I've reached this state how readily available is my suggestibility to both remain there and secondly how much information can I assimilate. If I am using the holistic drug free approach I am also battling my previous belief system which isn't broken as easily. While using psychedelics ego death is a very achievable position, from here I am much more willing to alter my belief and make changes to my life.

I am speaking from experience having used both methods. Not only do I not see an issue with drug use to reach altered states, I see the short life span of human mammals and I consider how many marathons I want to run past 50.

Western society has unhinged itself of spiritual practices over the last few generations and there is a huge hole now in our society. We have no moral guidance which would be ok except we still have money and it provides a very immoral approach to life. The result is a population rich with issues from mental illness to murder and shamanistic practices can get you a neat bag of cash without doing any real work (what could be better than work in a spiritual realm were other's can't see but can still pay you).

The result is a sea of differing voices giving every instruction you can imagine and no real advise. For a while this depressed me as I really wanted someone to know the truth and be able to find them hear it and know it. Luckily this has never occurred, I've decided my truth and yours might not even be the same so I've really stopped bothering about it. Instead I stay focused on what is currently happening and just look at reality as it is so I can make the most impact when it's needed.

Eventually I stopped looking for a shaman, teacher, guide etc and just began experiencing today. I don't have answers to big questions but I don't think I need them. I have answers to what I'm currently experiencing and I'm fairly certain as my experience changes I will find new answers to help me live through it.

What drugs did bring me in meditation was the ability to shrink my conscious focus. If you consider your conscious mind like a rubber band and all the things you are thinking of are like pegs in the table it becomes easy to see why things like ptsd exist. We have unsolved events from our past that are like a peg in our table of conscious thought. Sometimes these events are years old so your mental rubber band has to gather in all of today's issues as well as this old issue from years ago. The mental stress of having to live in today while waking each morning to the memory that is haunting you is crippling. Psychedelic drugs can move these long overdue issues out of your head long enough to look at them from another perspective and often facilitate there removal entirely.

A lot of people seeking spiritual understanding have something similar. We don't call it ptsd because we didn't get it while at war or in a point of life and death decision making. We got it while practicing questionable religious activities and we are clinging to these old moments in our life letting them shape our future exactly as if we had been in a life and death decision point and made a decision we can't quite realise is ptsd. Drugs help those who didnt expect it find these issues much faster.
 
Last edited:
Psychedelic drugs can also send one crazy - and often do. The reason why is because that person's psyche is not properly prepared for unseen realities and what lurks beyond.
They lack the required knowledge to protect themselves. And IMO once one attains enough knowledge, they are aware that doing this is putting themselves at great risk.

Would you walk into the jungle naked without training?

It's dangerous to assume that we are automatically prepared for the unknown world of powerful psychedelics.
Real shamans don't use drugs and that should tell us something.
Maybe one's path does involve experimenting with powerful psychedelics and they shouldn't be judged for their choices, but to tell people that doing this is safe or OK is extremely irresponsible.
 
You have some fears you may want to deal with before using psychedelics. Certainly I don't have your fears so for me naked in the jungle isn't an issue, it's my jungle.

Building fear to keep people from experiencing life is a common practice. If you harbour fear you will experience less. Warning people of invisible dangers would be important if we were blindfolded on a cliff and you didn't have a blindfold on, but you do.

In reality we are all just diving deep into our own psychological issues and psychedelics are a big help. Or we could fear that we are so fucked up we shouldn't even try. Seems like a laughable position to me but some people tell me because I ate meat I can never real experience truth.

I guess short story, I don't buy your fears but I won't tell you not buy into your own fear, you have every right to fear psychedelic drugs if you want.
 
Yourbaker said:
I guess short story, I don't buy your fears but I won't tell you not buy into your own fear, you have every right to fear psychedelic drugs if you want.
Click to expand...

Being realistic of the dangers isn't fear.
And I said nobody should be judged, everyone has their lessons to learn, and sometimes they are indeed the answer.

I do want to point out the use of psychedelic drugs isnt an issue. Psychedelics simply allow new neural connections to be formed and provide the potential for changing the way you think
Click to expand...
There's nothing simple about them. And they are an extremely large issue for a huge number of people.
Why do they provide the potential for changing the way you think?
What causes that change? Really how aware are we of the process behind it?
We really know fuckall, but I do know there are unseen realities that can and do fuck people up. It's actually far more dangerous out there than a jungle - if you lack training (knowledge/protection).
You have the right to fearlessly run into the jungle naked. If you have faith and are a good person you might be sweet.
But there are a lot of other people who are not ready and whatever is out there will consume them, happens every day. I've seen it happen to a close friend recently.

If you refuse to let fear rule you, congrats.
A base-jumper would not recommend what he does to people who can barely walk.
 
First of all, a lot of real shamans use psychedelics, as real shamans are part of indigenous cultures. Some of them use psychedelic plants as aids, and some don't, it depends on the culture. Iboga is used in some parts of the world, ayahuasca in others, peyote/other mescaline cactus in others, mushrooms in some, salvia in some... and probably others. In some cultures, a psychedelic experience is part of a coming-of-age ceremony, where each person or man or whatever is given one at a certain point in their life, such as entering adulthood.

In the west, it's far more muddled because we were introduced to psychedelics quite recently. We don't have a real cultural framework for it and too often psychedelics are seen as drugs to get fucked up on or party, without any real understanding of the dangers. This is where you run into problems. Psychedelics are powerful tools and one needs to be ready for them and fully understanding of what they're getting into. I've seen psychedelics help more people than I've seen them hurt, but then again I know a lot of psychedelic people so my perspective is biased. Your intentions and general state of self-acceptance and ability to be able to give up control without freaking out are all very important factors in the likelihood of psychedelics going bad. But, they have potential to change the way you think because they radically alter your perception of everything, and that difference from normal can reveal so much about the nature of thought...they facilitate intense introspection which can lead to profound realizations about yourself and the way your mind works. Also for some people they have facilitated breakthrough experiences which can only be described as spiritual... this happened to me on my first trip, I had an experience more real than "real life" and it changed my life is very positive ways that I'll always be thankful for. I went into that trip expecting to see some 60s-style visuals and feel like I was on super-weed or something... took mushrooms in a dorm room with some friends and acquaintences, one of whom started having a bad trip, but for me it was sublime and was entirely different than what I expected.

Anyway, aside from psychedelics, the culture of the "shaman" in the west is a sort of hodge-podge of observation and assumption borrowed from indigenous cultures, for the most part. I think there are well-meaning people who have no real idea of what they're doing or talking about. There are a lot of charlatans who prey upon the desperate and suggestible, too, and extract money from them for nothing. There's a lot of, for lack of a better term, "hippy dippy" shit (I hate that term, by the way but it was the only one I could think of to describe it) that goes on in the realm of western shamans. Personally I find the idea of performing shamanistic services on someone through skype to be nonsense and a great example of someone making some easy money off of gullible people. But I'm not saying it's all bullshit, just that the water is full of sharks so you have to be discerning as to who isn't just trying to cash in on a fad or has grown to believe their own delusion. I think there is a lot of nonsense that is preying upon this desire of people to connect to themselves and to connect to indigenous cultures that exists today in the west. But there are people legitimately tapped into something similar to what indigenous shamans are tapped into, also. The thing about it is, for indigenous shamans, there is a long tradition passed from one generation of shaman to the next, which imparts a deep framework of understanding that we simply can't have. And their practices are deeply ingrained into the fabric of their culture. So regardless of how much we try, we can't have as intimate a relationship with this stuff as they can.
 
Xorkoth said:
First of all, a lot of real shamans use psychedelics, as real shamans are part of indigenous cultures.
Click to expand...
A lot of real athletes use performance-enhancing drugs. This can mimic the same effects as being an elite in the field, but often at the detriment of the health of the individual.
Is an athlete that cheats really learning the valuable experience of achieving something commendable through the hard Work that's generally necessary?

Your intentions and general state of self-acceptance and ability to be able to give up control without freaking out are all very important factors in the likelihood of psychedelics going bad.
Click to expand...
What if even experiences that feel good could be detrimental the individual/soul/psyche? "Lies are easier to digest when they're wrapped in truth".
My friend who lost his mind recently had a great experience. He is extremely positive afterwards and he reported only a good, illuminating trip full of spiritual lessons. However he is now a completely different person, he claims divine power, and by last reports had basically joined a cult. Ask him though and he's doing the right thing for the betterment of humanity and to help us all elevate our minds to the next level of consciousness.

We shouldn't be too accepting of warm, fuzzy feelings without proper discernment. And it goes without saying that the most important thing is putting in the time to study and research substances before partaking. I agree that these psychedelics can do a lot of good, but we are only beginning to understand the profound ramifications.
 
Xorkoth said:
First of all, a lot of real shamans use psychedelics, as real shamans are part of indigenous cultures. Some of them use psychedelic plants as aids, and some don't, it depends on the culture.
Click to expand...
You are right and I want only to add shamanic journeys - something all shamans do. It's a psicedelic experience without taking any substance.
Good for people who are attracted/interessed in psicedelics but don't want to take drugs for the one or the other reason. One can use such journeys also as preparation prior to make a trip with substances.
Over the years I have made many, many great experiences using this ancient technique.
Cheers
 
There's actually a ton of experienced, knowledgeable, and powerful shamans in the US. And, even more shams who think they know what they're doing, way more. I thought I had more to say, but, apparently I don't. So I'll just post to subscribe.
 
JGrimez said:
Being realistic of the dangers isn't fear.
And I said nobody should be judged, everyone has their lessons to learn, and sometimes they are indeed the answer.
Click to expand...
I am curious, you've listed dangers of using psychedelics for shaman in their practices. Do you have a web link that can illuminate these? While you look for these brush up on the real medical science of what psychedics do actually do in your brain. There is a ton of real reputable information available. If you try to cover every psychedelic with one brush it might not work I picked LSD it seemed to have more medical studies done.
There's nothing simple about them. And they are an extremely large issue for a huge number of people.
Why do they provide the potential for changing the way you think?
What causes that change? Really how aware are we of the process behind it?
We really know fuckall, but I do know there are unseen realities that can and do fuck people up. It's actually far more dangerous out there than a jungle - if you lack training (knowledge/protection).
Click to expand...

Knowledge yes, protection from what and where is my link to the non imaginary thing I need protection from?
You have the right to fearlessly run into the jungle naked. If you have faith and are a good person you might be sweet.
But there are a lot of other people who are not ready and whatever is out there will consume them, happens every day. I've seen it happen to a close friend recently.

If you refuse to let fear rule you, congrats.
A base-jumper would not recommend what he does to people who can barely walk.
Click to expand...

I don't have faith in anything beyond humanity, and I only really have faith in me the rest of you I'm still not to sure about. Fear I simply can't see a good reason to have at all. Nothing should ever be feared, just understood. If you understand how to drive you only have to fear other drivers. With drug use I'm the only driver on my road. Personally I think fear of the unknown is the biggest lie anyone every sold. Wonder at the unknown don't fear it.
 
JGrimez said:
If one is meant to have experiences akin to a DMT......trip then it should happen naturally through Work.
Click to expand...
Spoken just like a person that has never smoked DMT it seems to me.
Maybe sometimes in another world I smoked DMT (not that 5-MeO shit btw) proper n,n & if you can do that naturally please let me know how it's done.

Before I forget you also get that smell from the plants for the rest of the day after? ;) (All the DMT smokers burst out laughing on reading that)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top