• Trip Reports Moderator: M!$ter-ED

***September's Substance of the Month: MAOi - Psychedelic Drug - Combos

Beenhead

Beenhead

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I thought Ayahuasca type substances would be a great subject this month. One reason is that I have been recently talking with some friends about the action of MAOis. I recently read an article that calls into question the validity of using the word potentiation as the type of chemical process going on in the body, even though it renders a normally inactive compound to a full fledged mind fest!
It even goes into question the potentiation of Psilocybin with MAOis.


The first one is Samadhi_Smiles report with DMT and Syrian Rue!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=270614&highlight=Pharmahuasca

Yaeustom has much information to share with many MAOi Reports. This one is with Moclobemide and Mushrooms
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=157138&highlight=Pharmahuasca

VictorBorge has a fairly difficult experience that probably could have been planned for a tad better!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=199757&highlight=Pharmahuasca

Vegan always has an entertaining story to tell, here is an extraction after he figured out how disgusting that stuff tastes!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=265739&highlight=Pharmahuasca

Victor again EROX with a report with Harmala and Methylone!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=143808&highlight=MAOI


I wish I could find some more like these, If you know of anymore non un -substituted N,N - Dialkylated Tryptamine reports with MAOis, post it here, its pretty interesting to see the different expereinces people have had with these substances when it is questionable to atleast myself as to whether they interact in the same way!


Also, here is the article I was talking about, it is from MAPS. Any comments? Does it seem Plausible? Discuss, this is a topic I have had interest in for years now, and enzyme inhibition is one of my favorite subjects!


http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html
 
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I would like to see more obscure maoi combos, not just psilocybin or dmt.
Victors reports are a good start, but I am especially interested in combinations of san pedro, or 4-ho-mipt, or maybe even 2c-x's and harmala alkaloids. I know it is really uncharted territory, but someone will guinea pig it, someone always does.
 
Took the tyramine free diet, just to be safe, for 12 hours. Consumed about 2 g of 4:1 P. harmala extract over the course of 1.5 hours. Methionine also consumed. Felt nice, sedate, in a good mood. Very slight nausea. 500 mg tryptophan down the hatch. Half hour later, exagerated(sp?) tryptophan effects felt. 500 mg more tryptophan eaten. For next 4 hours, felt very sedate, a little woozy, with the "spinnies." Not all that pleasant if moving around at all. Decided to take a nap at about 2 hours in. This was the best part and closest thing to an entheogenic experience. I don't have clear memories of the dreams, but they were intense, vivid, colorful and somewhere between waking and sleeping consciousness. I knew I was laying in bed dreaming, but it just overlapped. Also, periodic vibrating rushes that went "bvvvvVVV!" ran from sacrum to head similar to certain tryptamine bearing fungi. Probably won't repeat this experiment, but if I did, less harmala would be used with more tryptophan and a good long nap/meditation session.
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very cool!

If you're into these experiments, maybe try one with melatonin. I did it years ago at the tail end of an ayahuasca trip, so it is not reliable, although indications are this is a powerful combo.
9mg melatonin once fully MAO inhibited. Bed or sofa advisable.
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Intriguing.
 
egor said:
I would like to see more obscure maoi combos, not just psilocybin or dmt.
Victors reports are a good start, but I am especially interested in combinations of san pedro, or 4-ho-mipt, or maybe even 2c-x's and harmala alkaloids. I know it is really uncharted territory, but someone will guinea pig it, someone always does.
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2C-E and harmala has been tried. It is a definite potentiator. 12mg C-E and 75mg harmaline lasted over 8 hours (normal duration of 12mg C-E is more like 6) and had an extremely "dark" character subjectively. Lots of paranoid ideation and sitting slumped over on the toilet thinking about death. Whether this was down to the harmala or not I don't know, but I have noticed that harmala by itself is quite disturbing in nature. It's one of those substances that, even at small amounts, seems to induce a "losing the grip" feeling. This could be personal peculiarity, but I have since noticed many Erowid experience reports with harmala describing similar feelings. Not recommended...
 
But the thing I want to emphasize is the difference between Potentiation and Synergy.

Potentiation is the Biochemical process where by another drug makes another more potent on a gram for gram basis and does not add to the experience its self.

Synergy is two psychoactive drugs combining together to give a better or different experience than the two could have given alone.

Since Harmala alkaloids have their own psychedelic effect, we cant say what is happening here because both drugs are Psychedelic.
 
Are we ever going to have an non-psychedelic drug for the "Substance of the Month?"

Possibly an opiate, an acetylated semi-synthetic(hint hint) opiate to be more specific...

=D
 
Why dont I just go over to DiTM and start odering you around! :)

I thought about that a couple days ago, but other drugs just dont lend them selves to the most great readin Trip Reports!

Maybe next month I will... to be fair! ;)
 
Beenhead said:
But the thing I want to emphasize is the difference between Potentiation and Synergy.

Potentiation is the Biochemical process where by another drug makes another more potent on a gram for gram basis and does not add to the experience its self.

Synergy is two psychoactive drugs combining together to give a better or different experience than the two could have given alone.

Since Harmala alkaloids have their own psychedelic effect, we cant say what is happening here because both drugs are Psychedelic.
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That's a good point, actually, I never thought about it that way. On the other hand, harmala does potentiate other drugs when taken at levels below what's required to get effects from the harmala itself.

In regards to 2C-E trip duration, I was talking about the "real" trip, not the comedown. For me (180lb male) 12mg lasts about 6 hours, reliably, with the comedown maybe another 90 minutes. It was def longer with harmala.
 
Im skeptical as to whether there is any potentiation with anything but unsubstituted N,N Dialkylated tryptamines!

Thats why I want to hear some stories with MAOis and other drugs like psilocybin and 2ce etc...
 
Beenhead said:
Im skeptical as to whether there is any potentiation with anything but unsubstituted N,N Dialkylated tryptamines!

Thats why I want to hear some stories with MAOis and other drugs like psilocybin and 2ce etc...
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Why are you skeptical, out of curiosity? Have you had experiences which suggested to you that there's no potentiation?

I ask because there are many reports of such potentiation. And personally, I have undeniably potentiated mescaline-bearing cactus with harmala alkaloids. A dose of 10 grams of dried san pedro chips with 4 grams of ground syrian rue provided a moderately-strong mescaline experience which I enjoyed greatly. But then 14 grams of the same dried cactus without syrian rue did almost nothing, except for a vague feeling of strangeness and some nausea.
 
mostly curiosity. Ive read articles that have led me to believe otherwise, the only one I can currently find is above. I question MAOi's ability to do much with tertiary amines, because I dont know the mechanism.

I just have a theory that I think is just as possible as potentiation in the classic sense that it is synergy between MAOi and the psychedelic. How long did you wait between doses?

A vicks inhaler definately prolongs and enhances MDMA, is that Potentiation or Synergy?
 
And personally, I have undeniably potentiated mescaline-bearing cactus with harmala alkaloids.
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I think I rememebr S_S saying smething like mescaline being metabolised by MAO-b which I didn't think haramal effected. But then uktimately I am in over my ead and shaking at the mi ute with joy and wonder more withdrawl though
 
A vicks inhaler definately prolongs and enhances MDMA, is that Potentiation or Synergy?
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Hey, dont froget glowsticks. And phat pants. Definite effect on MAOI-z system. People claim nutmeg oil, rubbed on the wrists or thighs, potentiates MDMA, but I've never found that. But this thrad is abut maois so forgive me
 
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