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Selegiline (l-deprenyl) - too good to be true?

the last bit by Ward Dean in BT's quote above is very important. sabbaticals are key w/this stuff.

i would no longer even think of taking a 10mg dose...
 
^well, for one thing, i no longer enjoy goin off telepathic ;-)

i was on 5-10mg/d for weeks at a time, and got into a bit of trouble one time with a certain rather exotic mixture, which should not have had the effect it did.

suffice to say, i have drastically reevaluated my already careful approach to MAOIs, and less is more with l-dep.
 
It made me emotionally unstable.
I have depression and it was suggested as a treatment, but it made me worse.
 
I think 5mg. I can't find them right now. But I have trouble with SNRI's as well..make me suicidal. Just got a weird brain i spose
 
Check these links out,

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/maoi-stim.htm

http://www.priory.com/psych/selegiline.htm

I am at my wits end trying to treat my depression and overfocused ADHD, I have tried..

Moclobemide (aurorix) (made me feel detached),
citalopram,(Cipramil)(worked at first then took me years to get off it)
escitalopram(Lexapro)(anxious,weird feeling)
zoloft(Sertraline),(zombie)
Paroxetine(helped but caused anxity attacks),
effexor(awesome while it lasted, nightmare to get off),
inipramine(12yo treatment for add),
Atomoxetine (made me want to kill myself)
Mirtazapine (Avanza) Half dose knocked me out for 15 hours!
St johns wart (made anxiety and depression worse)

The only ones that really worked were Effexor which worked brillantly for a while and prozac which I have just stopped after 3 months cos it started to make me feel so amotivated and munted.

All I am on now is ritalin and I just don't feel right.
 
ok just an update,
I ceased the prozac which after making me really good for 3 months, was making life a nightmare, same as all those that have gone before them.

I went to my ADHD specialist and showed him the two studys in the post above and told him I wanted to be treated with selegaline but no matter how I argued the point, (I pointed out I am a nurse and I even brought in my own sygmo to show him I could moniter for hypertensive crisis) he finnally said "Us speciallst tend to be fairly concervitive in our approachs" then shoved me out the door with a script for the nasty old tricyclic tofrinal.

Endured 3 days on that and thought, nup, fuk it, I went to my local production line medical centre where I had asked about a year b4 for it and got knocked back by some old fart gp. This time I went and saw the youngest greenest dr in the place and simply said "Prozac isn't working anymore, used to be on selegaline 10mg day, worked well, can I have again pls"
Sure no prob
Bang, covered by pbs $28.50 thanx
Have combined it with ritalin no problem and am thus far very encouraged by the response.
BUT!
Because I was really out of control (Major depression)
Even though I have reserched this drug so much I didn't consider I was
(a) 10 days off ssri
(b) 2 days off TCA

But, no side effects except for instant clarity of mind and motervation to do shit I had been putting off 4 months. Actually maybe I got a little manic in retrospect.

FUCKING DOCTORS! These motherfuckers have put me through years off suffering so many of these nast drugs yet god forbid they go even slightly out on a limb and suggest something a bit novel. Fuckers, what the hell am I paying them 4 anyway?
 
Selegiline: great for us old blokes....

Have combined it with ritalin no problem and am thus far very encouraged by the response.
Click to expand...

I have to say that I consider this potentially a very dangerous combination, especially as Selegiline slowly manifests its MAOB inhibitive effects over time.

From MIMS on Ritalin

Methylphenidate should be used cautiously with pressor agents and MAO inhibitors due to the risk of severe hypertension.
Click to expand...


I was prescribed Selegiline some time ago, but for health related reasons I couldn't continue with the course. I'm pleased to say things are now much better in the wellbeing department and that I've been taking Selegiline every day now for the past 5 weeks. There have been some interesting observations and a definite improvement in memory.

For the first 2 weeks I alternated between 2.5mg/day and 5mg/day, before settling on 2.5mg/day. After taking 5mg one morning during the first week, I noticed what I believe was serotonin activity - MAOA inhibition. My pupils were dilated, and I had a strange but very noticeable lightheadedness. I also felt very speedy. That morning, just prior to taking selegiline, I had eaten a high fat breakfast of bacon, eggs & hash browns etc. followed by the typical 4-5 cups of strong brewed coffee ( I go through ~ a 1kg bag of beans / week at present). The effects from the Selegiline were felt almost instantly, and lasted all day and into the night. I got quite severe nystagmus (jaw grinding) which I've also noticed with lower dosages when consumed with lots of caffeine. At it's worst, it's as bad as anything I've ever experienced on MDMA or meth.

When attempting to explain the above response, I noted on the MIMS deprenyl page that bioavailability is greatly improved by taking it with high fat food. This can amount to a threefold increase, which I have undoubtedly felt now on several occasions.

I have also taken Selegiline with L-phenylalanine & caffeine as per nanobrain's suggestions. I did find a synergetic type of high, although it lacked some of the more interesting effects that nanobrain described.

I should point out that my main reason for taking selegiline is to hopefully counter age related decline in cognitive function. The coffee is more habit than anything, with consumption increasing when smoking was ceased earlier this year. I have not taken any other sympathomimetics, except for a couple of occasions when cocaine was offered. Erring on the side of caution, only very small amounts were consumed, with the result seeming to be that the effect from the coke was increased. Monitoring BP and heart rate during this period, I noted a slight decrease in both. Otherwise, there was no observable synergy, however I believe this could be quite different at higher dosages.

Note: unlike amphetamines, small amounts of cocaine do not cause large increases in extrastitial DA or NE, so I felt quite safe with this. However, I would not encourage the practice, and certainly wouldn't suggest anyone should do speed with selegiline. This could easily result in a hypertensive situation.

The bottom line is that selegiline does seem to work well. Libido and memory are definitely better, although the effects are subtle and gradually improve over time. As a mood stabilizer I have noticed little difference, but then again mood of late has been pretty smooth anyway. I certainly don't get as angry as often as I used to, but it's hard to say if that is directly attributable to selegiline.

I intend to do a 12-16 week course, so I'll report back again at around the 10-12 week mark.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Phase Dancer. Some new data there (no one else has reported some of that stuff). Very interesting. Unfortunately for you (as with me) no unusual effects as reported by nanobrain:\ . Ah well. I wonder how it would work with 'proven' psychics.
 
"I have to say that I consider this potentially a very dangerous combination, especially as Selegiline slowly manifests its MAOB inhibitive effects over time.

From MIMS on Ritalin

Did you look at this study?

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/maoi-stim.htm

Mims is extreamly concervitive and just regurgitates what I consider to be biased studys into these drugs.
I am 27yo male, healthy, I have my own portable blood preasure moniter so I consider it to be an acceptable risk and will continue to combine the two until I see any reason not to being aware like you said of the increase in maob inhibitive effects over time.

Presantly I am on 10mg selegiline and 40mg ritalin per day (pause for shock gasp) I think I will maybe lower the dose as its effects increase but at the moment I feel fucking fantastic, (actually after a 600ml pepsi max maybe a bit manic hence my plan to cut down) and my life is worth living for a change, I feel no desire to abuse meth in huge ammounts on the weekends just to funtion socially, I am getting shit done, so I say to the medical profession and the pharmacetical industry (with all due respect of course) that they are money hungry immoral parasites feeding on peoples misory and can go fuck themselves with retractable battons for withholding this type of treatment.
 
Ok, I gotta report in and give an update

Since I started this course of medication I have been on fucking fire, extreemly pro-social, confident, and ecstatically happy.
I have been so depressed I hyave barely been able to funtion, I had to quit my job, and then tafe and then go on a disability pension.
I had this all pervading lethargy that was just eating me, it would take me 20 minutes to get dressed, I couldn't process I thought from start to finish or undertake any kind of task requiring sustained attention. I was severly socially phobic to the point of not being able to attend class or enjoys socialising.

I had tried over a dozen antidepressants, nothing worked longer than a few months but nothing has worked like this.


My dreams have been exclusively based around being chased, being intimidated, feeling guilty, runnig running running or fighting someone who always beats me or feeling like an imposter.

This week I can remember 2 dreams.

One, where I was drinking a $150 bottle of wine and just savering every drop, I could almost taste it. It was equisite.

The other was going up to an ATM and there being 15k of cash hanging out of it which I grabbed and this guy came up franticly looking for his cash and I was just, "oh well" and gave it to him and felt good.


My creativity is just out of fucking control. I have had my motorbike sitting in the back yard for months just needing about a 5 hours work done on it to get it roadworthy. I really want it back on the road but have just been mentally blocked from coming up with solutions to these (minor) problems. Day after starting this, I started work on it enjoying every second and as it stands now I have been going for 3 days, 12 hours a day, painting, modifying, customising, conceptulising.....crazy

Coming up with all these business idea's, seeing investment opertunitys, seeing ways to organise my life, goals etc.

And most telling of all, I have had absolutely no desire to go out this weekend whereas every weekend for the past few months I couldn't not cos I always felt lonely.
And
No desire to use meth which was getting outa control. None.

My memory doesn't seem any better though and getting aout of bed still sucks. Have been a little touchy but get over it str8 away and nothing innapropriate.

I am still running on anxious energy a bit but I have always done that, difference is I am not so jittery, I don't powerwalk down the street anymore and while I still am socially anxious, it isn't the fear it once was and I am not ruminating anymore.

It would be too much to hope for for this to last I'm sure, but if it can just keep that bone crushing melencholia away I will be happy.

Alot of my mood elevation I feel is coming from the ritalin and caffine I am taking in combination (yes I am watching my bp) I plan to reduce this alot and try to impliment some cardiovascular exercise



Will keep u updated
 
streetsurfer said:
Ok, I gotta report in and give an update

Since I started this course of medication I have been on fucking fire, extreemly pro-social, confident, and ecstatically happy.
I have been so depressed I hyave barely been able to funtion, I had to quit my job, and then tafe and then go on a disability pension.
I had this all pervading lethargy that was just eating me, it would take me 20 minutes to get dressed, I couldn't process I thought from start to finish or undertake any kind of task requiring sustained attention. I was severly socially phobic to the point of not being able to attend class or enjoys socialising.

I had tried over a dozen antidepressants, nothing worked longer than a few months but nothing has worked like this.


My dreams have been exclusively based around being chased, being intimidated, feeling guilty, runnig running running or fighting someone who always beats me or feeling like an imposter.

This week I can remember 2 dreams.

One, where I was drinking a $150 bottle of wine and just savering every drop, I could almost taste it. It was equisite.

The other was going up to an ATM and there being 15k of cash hanging out of it which I grabbed and this guy came up franticly looking for his cash and I was just, "oh well" and gave it to him and felt good.


My creativity is just out of fucking control. I have had my motorbike sitting in the back yard for months just needing about a 5 hours work done on it to get it roadworthy. I really want it back on the road but have just been mentally blocked from coming up with solutions to these (minor) problems. Day after starting this, I started work on it enjoying every second and as it stands now I have been going for 3 days, 12 hours a day, painting, modifying, customising, conceptulising.....crazy

Coming up with all these business idea's, seeing investment opertunitys, seeing ways to organise my life, goals etc.

And most telling of all, I have had absolutely no desire to go out this weekend whereas every weekend for the past few months I couldn't not cos I always felt lonely.
And
No desire to use meth which was getting outa control. None.

My memory doesn't seem any better though and getting aout of bed still sucks. Have been a little touchy but get over it str8 away and nothing innapropriate.

I am still running on anxious energy a bit but I have always done that, difference is I am not so jittery, I don't powerwalk down the street anymore and while I still am socially anxious, it isn't the fear it once was and I am not ruminating anymore.

It would be too much to hope for for this to last I'm sure, but if it can just keep that bone crushing melencholia away I will be happy.

Alot of my mood elevation I feel is coming from the ritalin and caffine I am taking in combination (yes I am watching my bp) I plan to reduce this alot and try to impliment some cardiovascular exercise



Will keep u updated
Click to expand...


you are SO bi-polar, your doctor should be shot for putting you on all those other drugs. For your long term mental health, you should be on Sodium Valproate. Ask any good psych and they will say the same. Good luck !
 
Agreed... what you describe sounds like classic bipolar. Selegiline is not the med for you, neither is ritalin... you sound manic as hell.

You need to explain all of this to a psychiatrist.
 
But the manic syptoms only developed after taking the selegiline/ritalin combo. I think thats an early conclusion to jump to without asking him if hes ever had one of these 'manic 'periods' before, but without the meds.
 
I posted this same question in other drugs but no replies yet. How is l-deprenyl at the required dose for concentration boost etc. compared to something like d-amphetamine? especially in treatment off adhd, are the effects on adhd symptoms even comparible?
 
pinkanga - true, but the aim of depression treatment is to make them not-depressed, not manic. Being manic can be equally as problematic.

Spleh -- there are studies showing selegiline has efficacy in ADHD. Take a look on pubmed
 
you are SO bi-polar, your doctor should be shot for putting you on all those other drugs.

Sorry but I had to laugh when I read that.

Firstly, if you had read my posts you would see I put myself on this combo after countless hours or reserch and after seeing the light insomuch as psychietrists have little to no insight (either that or they don't care) into what it is like to take these fucking zombifying fucks of drugs, dont even get me started on GP's.

Study after study has shown them to be of little benifet over placebo yet they churn em out, each only slightly structually changed from the one before or an isomer even, heavily marketed with kickbacks to those who perscribe it (foregoing even the thought of Doctors with shares in a particular company flogging its wares).

If you want to get well you have to take your health into your own hands and read read read, discuss, be sceptical of everything doctors say, and there motivations, and try to get as good understanding into your illness as possibble.


Now it should be noted at this point that I am a qualified nurse with over 3 years of psych and D+A experience, I have worked extensively with bi-polar patients and I know only too well what a manic episode looks like, and, in all honesty, I would have to confess that I do belive to have taken on some manic symtoms. Ie. High energy levels, flight of ideas, enhanced creativity, grandiose schemes, euphoria etc. Fuck, just look at the lengths of the posts I am typing with ease.




BUT

I never have never had Manic episodes (with exception of meth binge)in the absence of treatment, just a chronic crippling dythymia and anxiety that ruined my life for years. .. . the more I look into it I looks more and more like I have type 6 ADHD which can manifest as bi-polar to the untrained eye.

Type 6: “Ring of Fire” ADD
Symptoms: a mixture of all types
inattentive, distractible
irritable
hyperverbal
cyclic mood changes
oppositional/defiant
aggressive (sometimes violent, even homicidal)
negative thoughts (often suicidal)
antisocial behavior (highest % of prison popul.)
frequently substance abuse, bad company

http://www.aqeta.qc.ca/english/general/types/Amen.pdf


=D =D =D =D =D =D =D


I am finding that the lower dose of 5mg selegaline/10mg ritalin twice daily that I am on now is exsessively stimulating now that the selegiline is kicking in propperly so I will cut down to 2.5mg of selegiline/5mg ritalin on the pm dose and see how that goes, or maybe I should reduce the ritalin, maybe compliment with low dose antieleptic or (extreamely) low dose neuroleptic. Any thoughts from educated people?

I am not interested in hearing shit like "dangerous combo" , "untested treatment" I am really pissed that I have had withheld what is likely to be a very effective treatment to dose me up with over a dozen meds of the same or similar class for 12 years of hell when the patient in question is a high funtioning medical professional who is well able to assess for complications. It is just so fucked up and snobbish.

Patients with "treatment resistant" depression who do not respond to standard methods or relapse over time have a moral and legitimate right to innovative therapy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3997787&dopt=Abstract

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/maoi-stim.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2056139&dopt=Abstract



Peace
 
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