Scottish Independence v. Further devolution, or just convoluted lies?

[Vurtual]

That's it, insult me without telling me how i went wrong (OT though this is)

You didn't explain why anarchism can't include democracy in its general sense (like direct democracy). [patronise warning] Anarchism isn't a single ideology, it's a collection of varying ideas and viewpoints with common elements - this is it's strength, as you can't just refer to some book of truth (like marxism), you have to be pragmatic with what works. It's about self-government, which can often include direct democratic votes to work stuff out - eg the spanish anarcho-syndicalists had direct votes on everything; the spanish and greek occupy protests had votes (albeit only working on consensus rather than majority) but were anarchist in orientation.

 

[One Thousand Words]

In all honesty I do not believe a true anarchist should really be that concerned with democratic elections. Sure the term has be taken over by the socialist front, the rough corners buffed off and it shoe horned to fit an ideal that socialists can also aspire to, but true anarchy the individual is sovereign.

I vote because it is compulsory where I live and they fine you if you don't. If you refuse to pay that fine you are punished by the courts of the land, which makes individual freedom to travel difficult. In short by rocking the system you make your self known to the system. Personally I care little for how my vote affects the outcome of any election because I chose to live in a society which provides me with safe clean streets, drinking water and next to no crime. I then chose to ignore any laws that I feel is unjust to my personal freedoms.

I am a true anarchist. It makes it easier to be one when you are a chameleon. I speed when I can, take drugs when I like, swear in front of my kids and walk on the grass when people aren't looking. I blend into the background, not drawing a second glance from anyone, but at the same time living my live exactly as it want.

I don't give two shits who thinks they are running the country because I hold three passports and move around this planet with no restraints. Politicians for me is a non issue. Something for people who care about leaving a legacy to fight and argue about. I plan to live my live for as long as I can under the radar, and when I die, the private garden I have built will be locked, with the key to the gate passed on to my children.

 

[Vurtual]

I think you're confusing a personal 'i am me' philosophy with a rich tradition of political ideas, most of them avowedly left wing. When i say anarchism, i mean the ideas of proudhon, bakunin, kropotkin, bookchin, goldman, chomsky etc. While these all were about individual freedom, they were also about collective organisation, just self government and direct democracy. Anarchism isn't necessarily about a free for all world were everyone fights and no one cares (though some (minority) versions of right-wing anarchism and anarcho-capitalism seem to want this (and this seems to be the common view of what it is - thanks sex pistols)).
[/patronise]

 

[One Thousand Words]

Like I said, those academics shoe horned the anarchist ideal to fit their socialist arguments. True anarchy denounces social control. By wanting to create any social order you are taking away a persons right to self.

I don't want to live in a lawless society. I actually do not want drugs legalised. I am happy for those idiots who I see unfit to be drug users restricted in their access to most drugs, and arrested if needs be. I'll still take drugs because I feel I am responsible enough to use them wisely, while not destroying the comfortable social order created.

I am not a big believer in democracy simply because I do not believe that all men are equal. You might try and argue that I am a narcissist, but I also am not too vain to be aware of my own weaknesses. I care little for society as a whole. I do not wish them harm, but I care little to how they live their lives so long as they do not disrupt my own.

Politics is for people who have inflated self worth. I know how to live a good life, I just choose not to give lessons on how to do it other than to my children.

 

[Vurtual]

They weren't (all) academics, they were the ones that invented anarchism (should add Lao Tzu and Godwin though). Anarchism is about personal freedom and no ruler/self rule - but what do you do with that freedom? you get together with other equal people, cos we're social animals, and do stuff (like sharing out to help sick etc).

(This is why i usually just put 'socialist'...)

 

[One Thousand Words]

What do I do with my freedom? I sure as hell wouldn't campaign a fucking election, trying to persuade the masses to follow me.

My life is governed by a moral code that I belief is just and works. If someone else wants to feed their kids beer and ice cream I couldn't give two shits, until they puke on my flower bed.

 

[Vurtual]

But if you had no government (as a 'true' anarchist should want i guess), and it was just you and anyone in your community deciding what to do, what would you do? Isolate yourself or get together? And if you got together how might you decide thorny issues? (votes/show of hands? majority/consensus?). This is how anarchism generally works (ie we work it out together)

I'm a pragmatic anarchist - i wouldn't want to get rid of government totally at this time (like the rand-ites want) as it does protect us quite a bit from capital, and it would do more harm than good.

(sorry scotland i'll stop now)

 

[One Thousand Words]

I enjoy my own company. I have friends who live in communes and shit just gets done because it has too.

 

[Sammy G]

But if you had no government (as a 'true' anarchist should want i guess), and it was just you and anyone in your community deciding what to do, what would you do? Isolate yourself or get together? And if you got together how might you decide thorny issues? (votes/show of hands? majority/consensus?). This is how anarchism generally works (ie we work it out together)

All the anarchist groups / 'organisations' I've ever encountered have been utterly incapable of 'working it out together', even when it came to the thorny issue of whose turn it was to make the tea (with soya milk in it, natch).

Admittedly they were more fun than the socialists. I even met a female anarchist once. Fancy that? :D

Sorry Scotland. Back to Scotch stuff.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Was she fat?

 

[Sammy G]

Of course.

 

[spudgun]

Calorie control is well bourgeois

 

[One Thousand Words]

Even fat cats?

 

[BecomingJulie]

Anarchism isn't about doing what the fuck you like because nobody is telling you what to do. It's about doing what's right anyway, without having to be told what to do.

 

[gannetsarewe]

I rarely watch the news, but I was surprised by the BBC morning news when I caught it in the run up, they would run a piece with a negative impact (which is fair enough) for the yes campaign, then one presenter would look archly at the other and say 'interesting' as in they never thought of that did they, the ungrateful fucks. I am very surprised by the amount of anti Scottish independence bias on here and elsewhere, especially Scotland.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I rarely watch the news, but I was surprised by the BBC morning news when I caught it in the run up, they would run a piece with a negative impact (which is fair enough) for the yes campaign, then one presenter would look archly at the other and say 'interesting' as in they never thought of that did they, the ungrateful fucks. I am very surprised by the amount of anti Scottish independence bias on here and elsewhere, especially Scotland.

People have the right to their own opinions. Unfortunately it differs to our own at times but it's best to just accept that n respect others' point of view. I sometimes struggle with this myself.

It may surprise you but it is what it is. I'm personally glad that Scotland didn't have independence, as I like you all to be apart of the UK n feel that we're all better off united.

I think that if Scotland truly wants independence, try not to see this as a failing but as a stepping stone to fix the things that were wrong / concerning people about going independent ie economy etc.

Evey

 

[Chatative]

Very amused to read Alistair Darling's comments from the Labour conference:

Mr Darling, a Labour MP, who led the Better Together campaign during the referendum, told the conference in Manchester: "Some people haven't entirely accepted this result .

"Apparently the first minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, said today, well he'd lost the referendum but never mind, he might be able to seize power some other way."

Mr Darling added: "I say this to Alex Salmond - you lost the argument, you lost the referendum, you've lost office and now you've lost the plot."

Sounds like Mr. Salmond is priming to stage some sort of coup. :D

 

[Vurtual]

I haven't looked into it, but i'd take the word of a slime mold before alaistar darling's version.

Didn't salmond announce his resignation the other day?

 

[One Thousand Words]

Scotland's not a real country anyway. If becoming a country was a simple as getting drunk and speaking with an accent no one can understand they would simple draw a line through Derby and make everyone north of it fly the same flag

 

[Chatative]

As opposed to Australia, which has more sheep than people & for whom most are descended from unwanted convicts from the UK? :D

Didn't salmond announce his resignation the other day?

Yes he did... won't be stepping down until November though.