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Save Nguyen Tuong Van

I can't help wondering what people's posts would be like if someone was about to be executed for smuggling a few kilos of ecstasy, rather than heroin. Perhaps a bit more universally supportive??

From a public health perspective, a punitive/prohibitionist response to drug use is a dismal failure. Will executing this poor young man decrease heroin-related harms? No.

I did email the President of Singapore (details on amnesty website), asking for clemency - but I'm not getting my hopes up. Then again - I thought Schappelle would get the death penalty too, and I was wrong there...
 
Excuteing him wont solve the drug smuggeling problem. Jailing or excuteing rapeist, murders or anyone wont solve that problem either. Dosent matter what punishment you give anyone, someone else will be willing to do the crime.

Its not much different from people sueing when they trip over the sidewalk, get fat from fast food, cancer from ciggies. They did it to them self, they had a choice and did something stupid. Now hes fucked for it.

He did it for his brother. Welllll that makes it ok to smuggle heroin through a country with the death penality. Its sad but the bali 9 will get whats comeing for them too. How totaly dumb do you have to be to try and smuggle herion when on the news is a big thing about schappel "might recieve the death penality for weed". People can gamble with there lives if they want but if they come off second best then thats there problem, not mine.
 
^ (directed at ayjay) Death penalty in Singapore is mandatory for any amount over 15 grams. There's no scope within the law for a lesser sentence - letting him off would effectively set precedent that would decimate the law entirely. I really don't think it's gonna happen.

FWIW this guy was a really bad smuggler. I've been reading up a bit on his case, and you know how he actually got caught? He unstrapped the gear from his body on his first flight (Phnom Penh to Singapore) and put it in his hand luggage. Which is X-rayed in transit. Duh. Article below makes for interesting reading on same.

http://www.thinkcentre.org/article.cfm?ArticleID=2347
 
hazzard002 said:
So if you get caught with drugs in Australia, you should rot in hell. WTF He did a crime, knew the risks and must face the consequences. But why be so cold? Everyone on this website does drugs and faces the risk of getting caught and more often than not jail. Im sure everyone and you are aware of the risks. Im sure most of this website, yourself included would like a little sympathy if they were caught, be you aware on unawares of the risk. You can still have sympathy.


if I get caught with drugs in AUSTRALIA I am more than willing to do the punishment deemed fit by the government and law enforcement agencies.

why the fuck should this case be any different just because their government has a hard line approach to the drug problem?

its none of Australias business, no one should intervene, the only thing that should be done is this guy take the responsibility for his own actions, that, is death. too bad, he did the crime but wasn't committed to doing the time. that's not how it works.

starfunker said:
And the argument of whether this is a fair punishment is irrelivant.
He had a choice! You can't say he didn't...
A lot of homeless people don't,
Jews killed in the holocaust didn't.
This dude did.

Don't cry to me when you get decked 'cause you were mouthing off to muscle mouth bouncers.
Don't cry to me when you get bitten surfing in shark infested water
Don't complain if you break into some ones house in the middle of the night and get stabbed.
If you base jump have fun, but if your mate dies on a jump don't sue the council for not having signs telling you not to.

Get what I mean?!


this is what everyone needs to understand, very good post!


and just to add, static_mind, you and I think very much alike.
 
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Thanks for the link Aunty - very interesting.

To keystroke, starfunker, static etc - Karl Popper defines a closed society (in "The open society and its enemies") as one in which people are unable to distinguish between a natural law and a social one. Such as equating "smoking causes cancer" with "heroin smuggling leads to execution". Try thinking a bit harder please, and with a bit more imagination and empathy. :)
 
I'm disgusted by the complete disregard shown by many people in this thread for a human life. No one, regardless of what they've done, deserves to have their life ended as a punishment. I agree that he had a choice - the choice between a certain death from a syndicate, or attempt smuggling that will [only] face the risk of death. Seems pretty obvious to me what someone would choose in his situation. I cant understand how people can justify his death because its the law. The law is fucked in this instance and should be changed. As easy as it is to think "i'd never do that", there are many other people who would feel the same way, but through unusual/unlucky circumstances find themselves in a situation where the choice of not smuggling will have significant consequences that rival the punishment for being caught with the drugs in the first place.

Even if he does get executed (which seems likely) the PM, and everyone else with a large influence should try and persuade the Signapore government that the laws are wrong. Maybe im being optimistic but I think every little bit counts, and if every Country complained to Signapore when they decide to be murderers they might realise hey, maybe killing people isn't the answer.
 
keystroke said:
if I get caught with drugs in AUSTRALIA I am more than willing to do the punishment deemed fit by the government and law enforcement agencies.

behold the words of a true REVOLUTIONARY!

with an attitude like that, the government will for suuuuurely and rapidly realise that drug users value their liberty and are ready to extend their civil disobedience to the judicial process that enforces laws that we all deem unfair - don't we?

i may be wrong, but in the context of drug use, doesn't breaking a law effectively represent a protest against the legitimacy of that law itself? if you bow down and let them fist you with oppressive laws, then in a few years australia will also have 20 year sentences for possession.

progressive drug policy is certainly no thanks to those of you with the "do the crime, do the time" attitude, especially when it comes to small-scale drug infringements.

decades ago, governments deemed it fit to ban indigenous australians from voting in their own land, they deemed it fit to punish homosexuals criminally for their sexual practices, deemed it fit to restrict injecting drug users access to needles etc etc - you see the trend. where would those social groups now be if it weren't for those who protested against that which the government deemed fit.

same goes for drug use. if any of you have a core belief that your choice to have and use drugs is a matter of personal freedom (not a matter of criminality), then i suggest you don't get too caught up in that attitude of apathy and acceptance when you get busted - stand up for yourselves. this is a democracy, the law is intended to reflect the feelings, attitudes and beliefs of the community, of which we are all constituents.

that 'matter-of-fact realist talkback radio show host tough titties eye for an eye' attitude in the context of the illicit drug phenomenon is so simplistic and impotent that it makes me want to go hang a big dirty shit.
 
Look, the death penalty is wrong, no doubt about it. Trivialises human life, makes a joke of creation. BUT - what right do we have to tell others how to enforce their laws? It's all fair and well to make a moral objection, but I don't think we have any place in interfering. If you're travelling overseas, it's your responsibility to recognize the (possible) consequences of your actions...and this guy was blatantly smuggling. No ambiguity here. If you take the risk, I don't see why you should receive sympathy...perhaps that's cold, but a fair legal system is based around consistency, and if all Australians can get off deathrow then where does that leave, for example, Singapore's judiciary?

Now I'm no advocate for capital punishment, nor am I condoning Singapore's sentencing...but it's the principle at stake. We're outsiders. It's selfish to assume that everyone should work on our terms, should make exceptions for our citizens...because it's a dangerous precedent.

peace
 
This thread is a disgrace to bluelight. The absolute REVERENCE many of you are paying to THE LAW...O M G, THE LAWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwww...

What did they have in nazi germany dickfaces?

Yes, some of you are raising some fair enough points that point towards some much wider ethical debates (ie sourlemone's last post is hinting at the cultural vs universal values debate) but if there is ONE SINGLE THING that should unite every single bluelighter here, i would have thought it would be the idea that nobody deserves to die because of drugs...

Now stop being so damn self righteous...
 
Cyberdyne maybe ud have a different attitude if one of ur kids led a life of hell or even died from drug use all because some gready prick wanted money. Or maybe some junky breaks into your elderly parents house and beats them or worse to get money for a fix.

This one man is responsible for seriously harming and possibly ending many lives. So are the people who made it but he still tried to bring it into this country

To a point im glad these countries have the death penalty becuase with the amount of drugs comming out of asia can you imagine how many more drugs would hit our shores if the threat of death wasnt a factor? There would be a shit load more.

The death penalty is a deterrent. When someone is caught they unfortunaltely have to be made an example of obviously.

Having the death penalty in these countries probably saves a lot more lives than it takes.

I feel very sad for van and especially his mother, ive shed a tear thinking about it but it doesnt change the facts
 
Are you aware that heroin in its pure form is not harmful to the human body? Are you aware that these junkies are likely to get heroin from the millions of other sources anyway? Are you aware that if they are bashing somebody to get a fix, more heroin on teh market will allow them to get their fix cheaper? Are you aware that it has been pretty much conclusively proven that death sentences do not work as deterrents? Are you aware of the difference between actively killing somebody and allowing them to purchase a drug of their own free which leads them on a downward spiral? Are you aware of the concept of duress of circumstances?

If my children chose to buy drugs from somebody, I would hardly blame the importer. Where there is demand there is supply, and killing one instance of this supply is neither going to make the problem go away, act as more than a minor deterrent or stop kids from buying heroin if they want it - it is, and will always be their choice to make.

Most importantly though, why kill him? Why not lock him away forever?

I just think its disgusting the attitude a lot of people in this thread have suddenly taken towards drugs being imported...
 
Thats great its not harmful to the human body. Are u aware of what it does when u have an addiction going on and cant get any? Are u aware of what happens with an overdose? Are u aware what lengths addicted ppl will go to for more and the crime thats associated with it?

I know theres plenty of other sources to get it from, but the harder to get the better, i know at one stage i would have tried H if it were available at the time, thank god i never came in to contact with it when i was that vunerable.

As far as kids choosing to try drugs, they are just that, children. They dont have responsible minds and are easily influenced. Thats the reason we dont sell alcohol/smokes to kids, because they cant make an informed choice. There might be children who are mature enough, but alot arnt.

If you dont think the death sentence makes ppl think twice about importing drugs, well just take a look around these boards, ALOT of ppl wont even touch a small amount drugs in these countries. Ppl using less drugs, that equals a goood thing
 
Since we're playing the awareness game here ...

volume-A, are you aware that, of the following issues:

Are u aware of what it does when u have an addiction going on and cant get any? Are u aware of what happens with an overdose? Are u aware what lengths addicted ppl will go to for more and the crime thats associated with it?

they are all directly related to the legality of the drug, and not the drug itself. There wouldnt be any overdoses if the user knew the exact quantity and purity of the product. If it was available cheaply and was always in supply there would never be any need for a "junky" to resort to stealing to get money to support their habit. Instead of throwing them in Jail and hoping they'll suddenly conform to the rules of society, maybe they could try and discover the reason the user turned to drugs in the first place, and try to help them overcome their addiction. Maybe instead of pretending that through prohibition we will eventually become a society that will never touch drugs, you could accept the fact that many different people use many different drugs for a variety of different reasons, and where the demand is so high, the supply is sure to follow.
 
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Well yes peaked it is an illegal drug.. therefor the average user is never going to know the purity or exact quantity of the drug. Im sure putting more readily available PURE herion on the street is the way to go mate.. jesus

If it was available cheaply and was always in supply there would be a shit load more addicts period
 
volume-A said:
Well yes peaked it is an illegal drug.. therefor the average user is never going to know the purity or exact quantity of the drug. Im sure putting more readily available PURE herion on the street is the way to go mate.. jesus
Wow, you just completely missed peaked's point.
 
volume-A said:
If it was available cheaply and was always in supply there would be a shit load more addicts period
Established and empirically verified research confirms that demand drives supply, not vice versa. In fact, scarcity is by far the stronger driver of demand (versus abundance). But let's not digress into macroeconomics here, eh.

To pick this back up where rationality left off - sourlemone has a solid point that most of you (us, whatever) don't really understand the intricacies of Singapore's legal system. And what seems mortally unjust to us, can seem quite reasonable to a Singaporean. Until you grasp this, there's little that can be done to motivate change.
 
volume-A said:
If it was available cheaply and was always in supply there would be a shit load more addicts period

Why??? The majority of society views Heroin as a "junky, out of control addict ruin your life" drug, and I dont think legality would change this. I am NOT saying we should open up the equivalent of BoozeBrothers and market Heroin to everyone the same way for example a glass a day of wine is marketed to the public. Instead, it would be available from a pharmacist only, where the purchases could be recorded, so that people gaining a potential problem with the substance can be helped by professionals before the addiction reaches a critical stage. Anyone under 18 would definately not be able to purchase the substance. Compare that to now, where (some) dealers continually push their product with no concern whatsoever for their customers health, nor their age, nor anything really except getting their money. IMO one of the most damaging effects from prohibition is that young children can easily gain access to illicit substances, at a time when their bodies are still developing. The health concerns for a young child would be far, far greater than for an adult. Yet we continue to allow this unregulated market to flourish.

Anyhow, I do not wish for this to stray further off topic.

Though I admit I have an extremely tiny understanding of Singapore, having visited there for a couple of weeks numerous years ago I was quite surprised by the different laws and attitudes of the people. Things many people would do here in Australia without thinking twice, such as littering or J-walking, seemed pretty much nonexistant in the short experience I had over there. I can also remember visiting a place where we (I was a young teenager at the time with my family) needed to state why we came to Singapore and to get permission to visit. I imagine society & the laws would be vastly different, and I'm sure I would fall far from understanding it.

Still, at the core of this issue is a human life, the most sacred gift of all, which I dont believe anyone is entitled to take away. Regardless of the judicial system, be it Singapore or America or Iraq, capital punishment is murder and is vastly brutal and unethical. The whole point of a punishment should be moreso for the individual to take into consideration in the future to prevent them from recomitting the same crime, rather than making a scapegoat out of those who do break the law as a deterant for others to not break the law in the first place.
 
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sourlemone said:
Look, the death penalty is wrong, no doubt about it. Trivialises human life, makes a joke of creation. BUT - what right do we have to tell others how to enforce their laws? It's all fair and well to make a moral objection, but I don't think we have any place in interfering. If you're travelling overseas, it's your responsibility to recognize the (possible) consequences of your actions...and this guy was blatantly smuggling. No ambiguity here. If you take the risk, I don't see why you should receive sympathy...perhaps that's cold, but a fair legal system is based around consistency, and if all Australians can get off deathrow then where does that leave, for example, Singapore's judiciary?

Now I'm no advocate for capital punishment, nor am I condoning Singapore's sentencing...but it's the principle at stake. We're outsiders. It's selfish to assume that everyone should work on our terms, should make exceptions for our citizens...because it's a dangerous precedent.

peace

its perceptions like this that keep letting countries stuck in the dark ages killing people for no good reason . . .

lets stop seeing the world as a series of political states, and instead surpass that by recognising that a human life is a human life, no matter where on the planet the crime was committed . . .

this isnt just an australian problem; it should be the concern of every person on the planet who refuses to let a man die for smuggling drugs . . .

i would hope we would make the exception for any person, not just australians . . . the fact of the matter is, the law over there is a shitty one, and both singapore and bali are countries i will never visit based on their pathetically backward drug laws . . .
 
sourlemone said:
what right do we have to tell others how to enforce their laws?

So your saying that a humans life is not as important as obeying the laws of another country?

I think charlesbronsen summed it up perfectly though.

It's sad though that the some of the bluelight elightened souls seem to have a contradiction that it's alright to personally take drugs (as why else would they be on this msg board) yet shit on those who are involved in getting these drugs to us in the first place.
 
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