Save Nguyen Tuong Van

[Flexistentialist]

No one deserves to die because of fucked up drug laws. Prohibition is the crime.

 

[Jimity]

God forbid we should pressure another government over the brutal execution of one of our own citizens!!!

This is Singapore we're talking about. Hardly a progressive liberal government. They have said that there is absolutely no chance of a repreive whatsoever. Our government continuing to press the issue would probably harm relations between our two countries. I know you'll say "But this is his life, who gives a fuck about relations." but the fact remains, we're just flogging a dead horse.

Its tragic that he is being executed and I really do feel for him and his family, but there is no more our government can do. I dont usually back the government, but on this, I will. They've tried for ages to help him out, but Singapore is standing firm.

For all intents and purposes he is dead. Its just when doctors have to call it and stop shocking someones heart. Sad as it may be, and brutal as it may sound, this guy is dead.

I'm not trying to start anything or piss anyone off; I think I'm just being a realist.

 

[keystroke]

yeah, let's all please save Nguyen Tuong Van, because he tried unsucessfully to smuggle 400 grams of an illegal drug (heroin) throughout Asian countries where the punishment deemed fit for such a large quantity is DEATH.

as I said in Aus. Social, what would your views on Tuong Van be if this heroin got into Australia, one of Van's customers needed money to pay for this heroin and went and bashed your grandmother and stole her money to get it?

he knew what he was doing was illegal and carried the death penalty, he was doing it for one reason. money!


if his brother was in debt, do what the rest of the world does, get a frigging job and work hard.

 

[K-Luva]

^^^^

I'm with you on this one Keystroke.

 

[plazma]

Take more pills, you empathetically autistic bastards. You're doing the equivalent of passing a homeless guy in the street and saying "get a fucking job you lowlife scum". I'm really impressed by the way in which people over here seem to be able to look at the situation and reduce it to the fact that its illegal and hence he has it coming, without realising or appreciating the complexities that real life tends to have, as opposed to this black and white view that seems to be predominant.

I hope that there are crowds of people lining up to laugh at your asses if you ever get punked down by the cops. Sure you'll say that yeah you'll agree that you'll have it coming if it happens, but rest assured that saying that and feeling it in that position are two entirely different things.

Jimity: No insult to you in particular man, but my usual line is that a realist is someone who's intelligent enough to know what's going on but too apathetic to get off their ass and try to make a difference.

-plaz out-

 

[static_mind]

If my Brother owed money i wouldnt go "shit i think il go smuggle some heroin through a country with the death penality"

People need to except resposability for there own actions. We are not to blame, he is. He knew the risk and got caught. Thats his tough shit not mine.

If he didnt want to risk his life then he shouldnt have done something stupid. Just like the bali 9. Dumb cunts knew better and did it anyway. Tragic but thats dawinism.

 

[charlesbronson]

People need to except resposability for there own actions. We are not to blame, he is. He knew the risk and got caught. Thats his tough shit not mine.

If he didnt want to risk his life then he shouldnt have done something stupid. Just like the bali 9. Dumb cunts knew better and did it anyway. Tragic but thats dawinism.

yeah bro, i'll go that. and while we are on the line, let me throw in a criticism of all those other fuckwits who should also take responsibility for their own actions:
-heroin addicts: no clean needles, no methadone. their addiction is their fault, let em die, Darwin style! that'll learn em some responsibility.
-stupid ecstasy users: fuckwits should know better than to use unregulated pharmaceuticals. pill testing kits just mislead them - tragic, but they know the risk. no normal person would take that risk. no WAY the government should support GC/MS testing for them.
-poor people: losers, if they wanted to make money in this society they should go and get a job - their reward will be proportional to their effort, remember: All men are created equal. lazy fuckers, their tough shit if they can't afford to eat, not mine.


just remember everyone, there is no such thing as a MISTAKE - if you do ANYTHING where you are aware of a possible negative consequence/risk, then you deserve no sympathy or help whatsoever if you should be unlucky enough to fall victim to that risk. you gamble for personal benefit at your own peril.

why the fuck do we bother with a harm minimisation website anyway? do our heads grow so big with our knowledge and safer attitude toward drug use that we end up shunning and dismissing people who are stupid enough to fuck up with their drug use?


deadset, how many of you actually support harm minimisation out of compassion, with a desire to help people who are in positions where they can't/don't see the wiser path as clearly as you do? and how many of you support it because it is a nice way to legitimise the fact that you partake in an illegal and unhealthy indulgence, thereby silencing that nagging conscience?

The government has sought to use the Nguyen case, together with the Bali Nine trials, to bolster the so-called war on drugs. As with the “war on terror”, one of its central goals has been to consolidate and develop ties between the Australian government and the police and military in various repressive South-East Asian regimes.

“People have to understand that when you go to another country and commit a crime against the laws of that country, you’re punished according to the laws of that country,” Howard warned.

The prime minister’s attempt to place the blame for Nguyen’s pending execution solely onto the young man himself serves a definite political purpose. By making the question strictly one of “personal responsibility”, Howard hopes to suppress any examination of the social and economic imperatives behind the drug trade.

The government’s response to the immense social problem of drug addiction has nothing to do with protecting the interests of ordinary people—least of all the direct victims of the drug trade. Those convicted of involvement are almost always those at the lowest levels of the multi-billion dollar business, while the real organisers and beneficiaries typically remain free.

A genuine response to the drugs crisis would have to begin by addressing fundamental social issues—such as the conditions of social inequality, deprivation, and cultural backwardness that give rise to the demand for narcotics. Questions of unemployment, indebtedness, and poverty would similarly have to be engaged in order to explain why so many people, predominantly young and working class, are prepared to act as drug “mules”—taking extraordinary risks, usually for very little financial gain.

Source

^ just another way to look at the greater picture, you may not agree with it. but a bit of analysis is sure as shit better than that stale 'realist' attitude of "oh he is dumb he tried to make money by smuggling heroin through a country with the death penalty thats what ya get tough shit aye sad but not my beef".

it is easy (and often desirable) to dismiss people in these situations, and leave them to their fate without dwelling on it, when you can't picture yourself ever being stupid enough to get caught up in something like that. but then a little stroke of empathy hits, and you imagine finding yourself or someone you love in a situation like this. how hopelessly and desperately alone and shell-shocked would you feel - death for smuggling fucking heroin? that is a scary thought in 2005.... to totally reject the prospect of rehabilitation or giving someone a chance to learn from a mistake. and despite the harsh nature of the consequences, people still continue to fuck up and do it - is it greed, desperation, what? if you aren't moved or disturbed in some way when you spend a bit of time pondering on the state of the world, then have a think about these things when you're on a pill some time:

Take more pills, you empathetically autistic bastards.

 

[Jimity]

Jimity: No insult to you in particular man, but my usual line is that a realist is someone who's intelligent enough to know what's going on but too apathetic to get off their ass and try to make a difference.

Couldnt agree more. I make no claim that I'm not apathetic. You got me to a T.

I'd be more apathetic if I wasnt so lethargic.

 

[Faustus]

Dont think that he chose this as the first option. Honestly no one in their right mind would choose drug smuggling as a first option unless they feared for their life or the lives of people they care about. Even if it was as simple as paying it back and getting a job dont you think he would have done that.

it is not a light task to decide to do what he did in the first place and I think you should automatically figure it is something worth doing and risking your life doing it.

If my mother was threatened and I knew she would die if I did not smuggle in drugs I would probably do it you know. If that was my option I am sorry but I would be in his position and then people could say I knew the risk and deserve to die.

I have made mistakes and I have broken the law 100s of times and I think I have learnt and been an asset to society. Would have been a shame to have never given me this opportunity.


Was a nice post you made charlesbronson

 

[speedygonzales]

Signapore sucks I alwayes told my self I will never go there and never will. except for transit

 

[eggman]

The traditional way of hanging generally chokes the victim to death because there isnt enough pressure to snap the neck. If your lynched or strung up you'll choke (Iran still executes people like this. They dont usually die instantly).

The long drop snaps your neck instantly. You need 1260 foot pounds of pressure to snap the neck every time. There is a formula that dictates the length of the rope required vs the persons weight.

I know this, because one Sunday I got an entire lecture about it while a mate was reading wikipedia.

Though there is nothing there that says what method Singapore uses.

Jimity, definately English Long Drop method. Did a bit of reasearch when I was working on a peice about the Barlow and Chambers case from 1986.

Infact, Changi prison actually puts a lot of R&D into the gallows, as sick as that sounds. They claim to have a near perfect formulae for determining rope density, length and drop to create what they consider the perfect method.

A perfect hanging as determined by the executioner and related police officers at Changi is a quick long drop causing an immediate breaking of the vertebrate. The preference at this point is for the spinal chord to be severed completely or at second best - bruised. The benefit they see here is that the body doesn't go into a violent spasm. After this point they allow 4 - 7 minutes for suffocation and/or restricted blood flow to the brain. Prisoner is then pronounced dead.

In the past the prison had several 'mis-hangings' which casued all type of problems. One story was when they stopped allowing family of the crime victim, prosecuters and politicians to attend the hangings. A prisoner was dropped from the gallow and the rope was too long for his body weight leading to his head to become severed and the body to fall among the spectators showering all and sundry with blood from the severed artery in the prisoners neck.

 

[Nevr_Mined]

If his brother was in debt, why didn't HE smuggle.

His brother must not be feeling very happy now, his brother's done in and he still owes money...

 

[on_the_rise_5]

I thouroughly dislike the whole lets stop these people being sentenced to deth/imprisonment in Aisian countries, if they go there and knowlingly break the law in acountry with that tought penalties then they deserve whati coming. However i feel quite sorry for this guy and his family, as he had a catch 22, dont do it and his brother dies, do it and risk death himself, i feel deeply sorry for the family and all that know them, peace

 

[volume-A]

Think of the lives that the herion would have destroyed on the street. Some of that herion might have been someones first hit leading to a life of hell or even death. I would save him in a heart beat if i could but at the same time i doubt he was worried about the lives he would indirectly harm/end

 

[keystroke]

all Van thought about was the money, he didn't give two shits about who he killed throughout his drug smuggling escapade, he knew it was illegal and he knew what reward he would of received had his mission been successful. fuck Nguyen Tuong Van, I don't care how many bleeding hearts beg for his survival, the fact of the matter was he did the crime but is now not wishing to do the time associated with it. unlucky, he should of thought about that before he committed the crimes, so too bad, he will now rot in hell.

 

[basix]

I dont buy his only did it to get his brother out of debt story, bullshit. He did it for personal gain, of course the family are going to come uo with something to try make him out to be a good person.

While I dont agree with the drug laws of alot of countries and abhor the death penalty, he chose to do this knowing the risks involved and he got caught. Now He has to face the penalties. That's life.

 

[starfunker]

Alright, I'm not saying it isn't a terrible waste of life, but put your self in his shoes FOR REAL, don't just say it, feeling sad.

I'm in debt up to my eye balls, have big dreams, I am surrounded by demand for heroin and would give any thing for a quick way to the top!... This is true

Could I, knowing the risks involved, as all these people do, gamble my life like this?... I wouldn't, It wouldn't be worth it, however I am reasonable enough to know that if I even thought about doing some thing like smuggling heroin through Asia, I deserve what I get. It's the risk you take! I'm not being callous, it makes perfect sense, you look before you leap and you accept responsibility for your actions.

And the argument of whether this is a fair punishment is irrelivant.
He had a choice! You can't say he didn't...
A lot of homeless people don't,
Jews killed in the holocaust didn't.
This dude did.

Don't cry to me when you get decked 'cause you were mouthing off to muscle mouth bouncers.
Don't cry to me when you get bitten surfing in shark infested water
Don't complain if you break into some ones house in the middle of the night and get stabbed.
If you base jump have fun, but if your mate dies on a jump don't sue the council for not having signs telling you not to.

Get what I mean?!

 

[chugs]

irrespective of any measureable value (crime, intelligence, being a cunt or not) nothing justifys the killing of another human being.

If you did a truly terrible violent crime being punished in jail surely is far more of a punishment then the short term gratification a hanging might provide.

Yes he did something stupid, yes there were so many paths & options avaliable to him but does that justify his death?

The biggest argument the detractors provide; the pain, misery and death (of innocents and users alike) which have a indirect relationship with drug addiction is sufficent justification to take the life of another human involved in the supply of such a substances.

What specious reasoning. It neither solves the underlying problem whilst (incorrectly) laying blame for this fucked up situation at the feet of the wrong people.....

It's the dealers, traffickers and drug lords who are at fault right - these people have filled a void our society denys exists in the first place.

 

[swifty]

If his brother was in debt, why didn't HE smuggle.

His brother must not be feeling very happy now, his brother's done in and he still owes money...

I'm pretty sure his brother's dead.... that's why he ain't doin it.

Anyways, I feel really sorry for the dude, and it's a tragic situation, but laws are made for a reason, and I think it's ridiculous that we think we know better how to serve the population of a certain country than the people that run that country.

He knew what he was doing and sadly as KB said, there's always a fucken tear jerker to go along with these stories isn't there (bali 9, schapelle etc etc)....

 

[Bent Mk2]

So if you get caught with drugs in Australia, you should rot in hell. WTF He did a crime, knew the risks and must face the consequences. But why be so cold? Everyone on this website does drugs and faces the risk of getting caught and more often than not jail. Im sure everyone and you are aware of the risks. Im sure most of this website, yourself included would like a little sympathy if they were caught, be you aware on unawares of the risk. You can still have sympathy.

Trust me, if there was the death penalty in Australia I sure as hell wouldn't use drugs. I've seen first hand the result of Australian drug laws and let me tell you it made me think long and darn hard about it, and indeed its the reason I very, very rarely do it now. To have to visit a best friend in jail for 2+ years is pretty sobering - I definitely had sympathy for him.

But you know what, he didn't want it. As he said he knew the risks. So he did his time and that was it. But if the penalty in Australia was death I guarantee neither of us would have ever indulged to begin with.

In this case the guy knew the risks, he considered them and still decided to roll the dice. Even a deaf, dumb and blind new born baby knows that country's like Singapore have the death penalty - so whether the punishment fits the crime or not, he knew the risks...and extremely unfortunately for him, he lost.