N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
same or different material?
Hammilton
Bluelighter
Do you even understand what MAO is? It doesn't have to entry a neuron to inhibit MAO. MAO is a family of enzymes (duh, you can tell by the "ase" part in Oxidase). MAO-A is found in neurons and astrocyctes in the CNS, and in the periphery, it's found in the liver and gastro tract.
MAO-A is the MAO that breaks down SE and NE. Interestingly enough, of the beta-oxygen substitutents, the beta-ketone gives rise to a selective MAO-A inhibitor.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Somebody kindly translated for me - it's effectively,"I'm not going to play here anymore if you keep poking holes in what I say" . WE'LL TRY & PLAY NICE FROM NOW ON... 
Doesn't exactly scream 'impartial data; does it? 
MurphyClox
Bluelighter
...yep.
IlostaMadge
Bluelighter
Nichols diagram is innacurate because phens don't bind like trypts, the former binds vertically hence the potency of planar molecules, the latter is locked into a horizontal position by the 2,5 electro negatives with the ethyl amine reaching towards the binding point.
MurphyClox
Bluelighter
IlostaMadge said:
If you referring to FnB's posted pic, well, I can only see a PEA depicted. What you're talking 'bout, son?
That both classes of compounds (PEA & tryptamines) do not bind equally to the 5HT2A is no secret anymore. I think the respective data was published already a couple of years ago. Btw, I think this was at least in part discovered by Nichols (et al.), so the guy should know...
What is the red marked part supposed to mean?! That doesn't make any sense for a chemically educated person. "2 5 electro negatives"??? Position 2 and 5? Nah! Position 5 is not really partially negative... And what kind of "ethyl amine"? Confusion, confusion...
You better check the structures of some prototype compounds again. My suggestions: DMT and Br-dragonFLY.
Peace! Murphy
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
I'm a bit lost as to what that means. I mean I know PEAs & tryptamines don't bind exactly the same way as in the indole nucleus you have a nitrogen (one lone pair) in an aromatic ring yet in PEAs you have a non aromatic oxygen (which has two lone pairs).
In the dragonflies you have an aromatic oxygen (furan ring), but within a phenethylamine nucleus, so which way does that bind?
BTW you've clarified the issue as regards 5HT2b receptor affinity. All this stuff about the 5HT2a is a sideshow distraction as it has little to do with 4-methylmethcathinone. If you want I can recap the issues that have been left unanswered regarding possible implications of 4-methylmethcathinone action?
More than one person seems to think you've got some points a bit confused
Why can't you explain now (or is this 'in two weeks' time a hope everyone will have forgotten about this by then?)
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
IlostaMadge said:
Sorry if I got a bit aggressive in the demands for data etc, but I really don't like the selective, 'secret squirrel' sort of "I'll tell you later" type posts. I've experienced people trying to use it as a way of exerting superiority over others by limiting the flow of data and it really touched a raw nerve
Nah, just another one of us crazed druggies! :D
Hammilton
Bluelighter
If it makes a difference, he's telling the truth. We've been talking fairly often recently, and all of a sudden a very drastic change.
That's what happens when you stay up to talk to americans, I'm afraid. That and your economy goes to hell.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Well I was sort of beginning to recognize the 'not being able to express yourself properly' aspect to the posts along with the disjointed jumps in logic that is pretty indicative of dissociative binges (& continual heavy use). I've also got a few embarrassing memories of contact with other people while dissociated into tiny, tiny fragments of a coherent personality, mostly my other half
that I've had recounted to me in detail, lest I ever forget the lesson,"when ketted out, say nowt"!
One world at a time is hard enough to deal with, but both reality & what's going on inside your head at the same time...
Furious George
Ex-Bluelighter
I think I know why Ilostamadge is the only person who seems to think this substance has a great safety profile. He "seems to have a financial motive for trying to prove that the chemical is safe". He has convinced others on other boards that this substance is benign (largely buy bombarding them with pharma-speak that goes over their heads
) and thus has a vested interest in proving his point. They all think Madge is a neuropharmacology guru, it would be a tremendous knock to his ego to be proved outright wrong on a public forum, hence his desire to get this to the other light ASAP.
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Indifference
Greenlighter
Furious George said:
You really, really couldn't be further from the truth my friend 
A lot of us aren't teenage buddies, and many of us know plenty of chemistry.
Also, I'm not sure how happy madge would be with you saying things like that, especially on a public forum as popular as this.
IlostaMadge
Bluelighter
I'm amazed at the reaction I have gotten, truth be told, I was never sleep deprived or binging on ketamine, but every response was a hate filled remark denying that anyone could have the insight to look at a wide variety of compounds and spot simple patterns and trends that exist as structure varies.
You'd be far better at what you centre your self esteem around if you did it for reasons that weren't motivated by egotistical masturbation.
I mean, I offered to post something on blacklight to prove what I said, and instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt, 11 people pmed Hammilton asking for him to never let me post, that's depraved, insecure and disgusting, and the above remark by Furious George is a perfect example of that self centered psychological mechanism in action.
IlostaMadge said:
Well, I hope you did not understand my critique as an "hate filled remark". To me it seems like you handled this thread and its subject in a pretty weird way, though.
Also, I'm pretty sure noone here centres their self esteem around egotistical masturbation. I, for sure does not.
Did you post on the other BL?
Hammilton, is that statement about PM:s true? That seems like a very weird way to go as well.
Furious George
Ex-Bluelighter
IlostaMadge said:
I'm very sorry chap, I don't follow. I've never been "hateful" in my posts. I've been curious. And in my above post I just felt that I may have noticed something that might help contextualise your line of argument (since the science you presented seemed a little leaky according to F&B, Ham and others).
I don't see how i'm engaging any "self centered psychological mechanism". Your psychobabale is weak young Freud.
IlostaMadge
Bluelighter
I don't post, and I am unsure whether to do so or not in light (oh the irony) of the responses here.
Egotistical masturbation = insecurities about your own prowess within the field that make you deny that anyone could have superior understanding without a shedload of qualifications and respect in the field.
Not yet, working on 3D images of binding to prove my points, obviously this will take a while as I want to cover as many structures as possible in order to be believable.
I realise my explanations were hard to interpret, I was in awe at what I am seeing, which is precisely the reason I am not trying to justify my arguments any longer till I can produce a full, detailed, illustrated report to try and present my theories as clearly as possible.
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fixingahole
Bluelighter
IlostaMadge said:
IlostaMadge said:
(Sleep deprived + ketamine binge + highly delusional) - (ketamine binge + sleep deprived) = Highly delusional 8(
IlostaMadge
Bluelighter
Sleep deprived + ketamine induced delusion - ketamine - sleep deprivation = ?
fixingahole
Bluelighter
Erm, naturally induced delusion? Risperdal works wonders
IlostaMadge said:
