Saftey Of Kratom and Kava?

[SmilexGwG]

Hey everyone, i was wondering if combining high doses of kratom (8-10 grams) and low doses of kava tea would be safe.

I searched here and found threads about the topic but not on saftey. I tried this once and noticed the sedation was very very strong. Im not worried about over sedation im just worried about possible death from an interaction.

Does anyone have any information regarding this?

 

[psynce of sound]

Hey everyone, i was wondering if combining high doses of kratom (8-10 grams) and low doses of kava tea would be safe.

I searched here and found threads about the topic but not on saftey. I tried this once and noticed the sedation was very very strong. Im not worried about over sedation im just worried about possible death from an interaction.

Does anyone have any information regarding this?

As one works on Mu Opioid Receptors and the other upon GABA receptors, albiet a lot more mildly than typical members of such classes. I would use caution, there will be the potential for breathing supression.

As you've noticed the combo also produces strong sedation, which poses a risk of passing out and choking on your vomit. Not a nice way to go.

So without knowing the extent of how they interact in both these manners, I'd recommend either avoid it, get a sitter but most importantly start low and go slow. Maybe even have some Naloxone to hand.

 

[b00mh34d5h0t]

I don't think kratom causes central nervous system depression so I don't think it's likely you would die. I've been using kratom for about 10 years and have used kava tea and capsules a decent amount of times and never had any issues other than nausea. That being said, you never know so start slow until you're familiar with that particular strain of kratom and kava

 

[SmilexGwG]

I don't think kratom causes central nervous system depression so I don't think it's likely you would die. I've been using kratom for about 10 years and have used kava tea and capsules a decent amount of times and never had any issues other than nausea. That being said, you never know so start slow until you're familiar with that particular strain of kratom and

I don't think kratom causes central nervous system depression so I don't think it's likely you would die. I've been using kratom for about 10 years and have used kava tea and capsules a decent amount of times and never had any issues other than nausea. That being said, you never know so start slow until you're familiar with that particular strain of kratom and kava

Thanks for the information, my main concern is the metabolite of Mitragynine, 7-OH-Mitragynine being a strong partial agonist of the Mu Opiate Receptor. This works in a similar way to buprenorphine which always gives me some anxiety since ive always heard even partial opiate agonist when mixed with gabas can cause trouble.

Ill make sure to try low doses of each and slowly work my way up

 

[SmilexGwG]

As one works on Mu Opioid Receptors and the other upon GABA receptors, albiet a lot more mildly than typical members of such classes. I would use caution, there will be the potential for breathing supression.

As you've noticed the combo also produces strong sedation, which poses a risk of passing out and choking on your vomit. Not a nice way to go.

So without knowing the extent of how they interact in both these manners, I'd recommend either avoid it, get a sitter but most importantly start low and go slow. Maybe even have some Naloxone to hand.

Wow, i was never taking the risk of choking on my vomit seriously until you mentioned it. Now that i think about it the severe nausea kratom gives me, might be terrible if i suddently fall asleep. Never really thought about that until now, thanks for warning me

 

[psynce of sound]

Wow, i was never taking the risk of choking on my vomit seriously until you mentioned it. Now that i think about it the severe nausea kratom gives me, might be terrible if i suddently fall asleep. Never really thought about that until now, thanks for warning me

You're absolutely welcome my friend. Better to know and be prepared than bad shit goes down.

I hope you stay safe and be cautious.

 

[Blergs]

As one works on Mu Opioid Receptors and the other upon GABA receptors, albiet a lot more mildly than typical members of such classes. I would use caution, there will be the potential for breathing supression.

As you've noticed the combo also produces strong sedation, which poses a risk of passing out and choking on your vomit. Not a nice way to go.

So without knowing the extent of how they interact in both these manners, I'd recommend either avoid it, get a sitter but most importantly start low and go slow. Maybe even have some Naloxone to hand.

Naloxone won't work for kava, it may act on the opiate receptors, but it's not one and I don't see naloxone having affect.

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ I think you meant kratom, not kava... but yes naloxone certainly works against kratom, it will kick the mitragynine/7-HO-mitagynine out of the opioid receptors. However neither of these have ever been demonstrated to cause any respiratory depression as far as I know, so I don't think you have anything to worry about as far as that, though caution is always smart. Anecdotally, I have combined kratom and kava many times. I have never managed to get more than subtle effects from kava, so if you get strong effects from it, I would take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Afaik kratom doesn't suppress respiration like other opioids do (though I might confuse it with tianeptine here). 8-10g kratom aren't so much btw, I sometimes take 25g per day or more but I have tolerance, a weird kind of such which doesn't go down with abstinence. I could take 30mg or methadone while opioid naive and not get the nods.

My 2 cents are that this amount of kratom and kava tea in moderation are save, besides what's been mentioned, of course in theory they are not safe together because of potential summed sedation - as kava isn't a full GABAergic but part of its effects are mediated by CB1 cannabinoid receptor and tea is the weakest form (or do you mean in the sense of traditional preparation? It's not a tea then and sensitive to heat). Even brewed in the traditional sense it's a weak drug, it is active but I'd say I feel only the CB1 effects, it's not a downer like eg. benzodiazepines.

Naloxone seems to also inverse some of other CNS suppressant effects because it is a weird inverse agonist at the mu opioid receptor which means it's kind of a stimulant but a dysphoric one. Seems only to apply to people with opioid tolerance but you will have such when you're taking kratom on a regular basis.

 

[Pickledlemons]

I'd say it's pretty safe, there is some evidence of possible liver damage by kava if it isn't harvested correctly and there are anecdotal reports of heart issues with kratom but asfaik nothing concrete. Compared to the real risk of OD and death from mixing benzos and traditional opioids, I'd say this is a safer option... But keep in mind there are still unknowns with these non standardized products.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I'd say it's pretty safe, there is some evidence of possible liver damage by kava if it isn't harvested correctly and there are anecdotal reports of heart issues with kratom but asfaik nothing concrete. Compared to the real risk of OD and death from mixing benzos and traditional opioids, I'd say this is a safer option... But keep in mind there are still unknowns with these non standardized products.

I thought it was Big Pharma messing up with whatever process they are using to concentrate the Kava because it was a pill while you need many grams of crude root for just threshold effects so they have to extract it somehow. I might be wrong though and there is some toxin in the plant which can contaminate your stuff.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think I read that there are related species of kava, which are not noble kava (the one that has psychoactive kavalactones) that contain hepatoxic compounds, and sometimes in poor quality kava, you end up with these in there... I am not positive that's correct though.

 

[bluemonkey]

I’m getting ready to try kava for the first time and I have taken Kratom at much lower amounts daily for years 2-4 tsp on finely ground powder every 6 to 8 hours. I don’t know the weight on my dose but a kilo of the flour-like powder lasts me 3 or 4 months at least.

Anyway, the one time I took too much kratom and the room spun, phenergan suppositories made the spinning stop. I ate some crackers and took a nap and woke up fine 4 hours later. I did sleep in the recovery position just in case I threw up.
Yeah so my point is I would have phenergan on hand and look up the recovery position if you don’t know what it is.
Also I personally never try new medicine or supplements when I am alone. The very first time I make sure someone I trust is here, staying awake ( not on anything themselves) and knows what I took and how much in case I have a major allergy..

Oh yeah Kratom’s safety depends on your tolerance like opiates. So if kava is the new piece for you I would dose the Kratom at the lower end of your tolerance. If you use Kratom for maintenance, take just enough to switch off your withdrawals. I wouldn’t mix the 2 in the same tea or whatever. Not at first. I would take them separately ( and on top of each other if you want mixed impact. Obviously more spaced out if you don’t.
Just my thoughts on the safety

 

[Xorkoth]

I’m getting ready to try kava for the first time and I have taken Kratom at much lower amounts daily for years 2-4 tsp on finely ground powder every 6 to 8 hours. I don’t know the weight on my dose but a kilo of the flour-like powder lasts me 3 or 4 months at least.

1 teaspoon of flour-like fine powder kratom is almost exactly 2 grams from every batch I've tried.

 

[Jabberwocky]

2 teaspoons of flour-like fine powder kratom is almost exactly 2 grams from every batch I've tried.

heaping or level?

I've never once used spoons to measure, I always get confused. I measured out a gram years ago and eyeball it every time.

 

[Xorkoth]

Level teaspoon. Every time I weigh one it's within 100mg of 2 grams. I've weighed many batches, though I don't typically

 

[bluemonkey]

My dose is always level teaspoons. Once, within a week of first taking Kratom I didn’t level it off and got too much and the room started to spin about 30 minutes later. I was in the bathtub of all places for the room to start spinning.
I am disabled and have a care attendant help with stuff like bathing and getting in and out of the tub or bed etc and she thought I was losing my mind when I suddenly saying “I need out of tub right now!”

She doesn’t help with anything medical. So I didn’t want to tell her I was experimenting with herbal medicine. It might make her and the company she works for concerned about whether I can in fact manage my own medicine
So I basically told her she didn’t need to know why. She just needed to get me out very quickly

 

[Blergs]

I thought it was Big Pharma messing up with whatever process they are using to concentrate the Kava because it was a pill while you need many grams of crude root for just threshold effects so they have to extract it somehow. I might be wrong though and there is some toxin in the plant which can contaminate your stuff.

It was companies using whole plants or parts not supposed to be used. Kava use is only supposed to be the root, only what's below ground pretty much. So that AND using odd chemical, solvents etc to extract the kavalactones I feel played a part in the false fearmongering of kava and liver issues.

 

[Blergs]

I think I read that there are related species of kava, which are not noble kava (the one that has psychoactive kavalactones) that contain hepatoxic compounds, and sometimes in poor quality kava, you end up with these in there... I am not positive that's correct though.

Yes this too may have played a part. Definitely only use noble kava root , imo.
So me e use wild tude kava or sell it on purpose but.. I'll stick with my noble personally

 

[Blergs]

2 teaspoons of flour-like fine powder kratom is almost exactly 2 grams from every batch I've tried.

Even rounded tsp yes, but a heaping tsp is 1.5-2g I've found. Still even 3-4g a dose is a decent mid range dose imo