Thanks for bringing me up once again Folley.
I can't say how grateful I am that you consider it worthwhile.
DPH is a CYP2D6 inhibitor, which is a liver enzyme that metabolizes many drugs including MDMA.
Anything that interferes with hepatic enzymes, even grapefruit, is considered risky.
DPH is certainly more risky than grapefruit.
In higher doses it inhibits the re-uptake of serotonin as well!
And NOT in a way that ANY recreational user would describe as pleasant.
Do a search for DPH trips and you will be scared by the reports.
People do it once, and never again...
I never tried to trip on the stuff - most nights I would only take one or two.
I didn't even know it carried risk. I actually thought it was a 'safe' OTC drug.
I was quite wrong, and my father-in-law who is a 20yr. ER nurse told me that he sees DPH problems frequently.
Most recreational users have to approach 200mg to really start tripping, but I always found 50 mg to be very sedating and even amusing if I stayed awake.
Those who actually take enough to trip will experience NO euphoria; only disillusionment, fear, hallucination - this is why its called a deleriant.
The most shitty part is that it NEVER stops. They will suffer for what feels like forever....seeing things like spiders crawling all over their arm!
Whatever effects DPH has on serotonin in higher doses, the brain's reward circuitry does not like it.
So there I was, 48 hours after my first mini-binge.
I took 2.5 tabs (pure MDMA) two weekends in a row.
Then another half the day after that.
The last half was a stupid fucking idea.
The day after that I felt fine, except for a mild headache from a half a beer.
I even worked out, and perceived no problem.
The next night, 2 days after, I took 4 benedryl.
Why 4 and not my usual 1 or 2?
I have never been able to answer that question.
I was not consciously trying to compensate for anything - I felt fine.
And I suspect I was just trying to enjoy it for once.
I probably had some mild problems with not feeling tired...
Well, that night was MORE euphoric than I expected.
I felt slanted.
Drunk.
Dizzy in a fun way.
Not what people normally describe on DPH trips at all.
Little did I know that two days after a 'mini-binge' there are still nasty MDMA metabolites wondering around the bloodstream.
And I interfered in the metabolic process in a way I simply could not predict.
I was SO dizzy and swimmy feeling for hours.
So what happened?
Nothing - I went to sleep after a while.
The next day...
Was almost the last day of my life.
Nov. 4, 2010 I experience a case of Serotonin Syndrome just after waking.
I know that most cases of SS occur just after the offending medications are taken, but it was still 'quick onset'.
I went from feeling completely FINE to OH MY GOD I'M DYING!!
The left side of my chest hurt like never before.
I was 29 years old and in good shape - but I thought I was having a heart-attack.
The greatest moment of fear in my entire life, without exception.
It took me 10 minutes to realize it was not a heart attack.
But for the first 2 minutes I felt like my heart wasn't even beating, when in fact I had massive tachycardia.
That is the onset symptom of SS - chest pain, tachycardia, and belief that a heart-attack is occurring.
Then the stomach pain and MASSIVE swelling around my liver began.
It felt like I had eaten a bag of fucking ROCKS. And it just kept getting heavier and heavier.
The first hour was unreal.
Eventually the swelling started to move south...and I felt it go ALL the way down.
But the other symptoms I felt were so extreme I can honestly say it should have killed me.
I could feel the cortisol building up, similar to a horrible comeup on MDMA.
And the weight in my gut was a result of paralysis and buildup of water.
The release of ADH reached certain SIADH, and possibly hyponatremia!
This is the leading cause of death among MDMA users - water putting pressure on the brain.
I may have had a stroke, I don't know.
My anxiety was so high that I paced around my living room for two hours straight, often unable to even speak.
This is aphasia - a serious symptom in an SS patient.
But when I noticed a fever creeping up on me, suddenly my limited knowledge of MDMA took over.
Liver toxicity is thought to be caused by the immune system and fever, but the high temperature actually causes more brain damage as well.
And contributes to swelling, stroke, death...
If I hadn't immediately forced myself to disrobe, calm down, and ICE myself down - BL would have never met FBC.
My wife gave me diuretic herbal tea and I was finally urinating.
Then I took a tiny little shit and felt amazing relief from it.
It took another two hours before the episode was over, but I KNEW I had felt swelling around my brain since my ears were ringing and the migraine was so bad.
My cortisol levels were out of control. And I couldn't sleep that night because my head just kept BUZZZING - like a tuning fork.
The next night, I was forced to endure a similar episode that was about 70% as strong.
I couldn't fucking believe it.
Then it was down to 30% the night after that!
It just wouldn't stop.
Apparently my intestines had to completely empty themselves before I would experience a cessation of SS symptoms.
Serotonin contracts the smooth muscle around the intestines - this is where most of your serotonin receptors are.
Every time I ate solid food that next week it was VERY BAD.
Suffering over and over again.
I stopped eating.
I ate a liquid diet - consisting of protein powder, milk, ice, frozen fruits...
And I still felt like a part of my soul was dying every single time.
From the moment it left my stomach and entered the small intestines, I would experience severe depersonalization, physical pain, a tickling/raking sensation in my brain.
And generally the rape and destruction of my identity.
Within the first two weeks things did settle down, since I hardly ate anything.
I smoke a few hits of hydro - and felt like it was the first night all over again!
I thought I was going to DIE.
Learned my lesson.
I lost 30 pounds that I didn't need to lose that month.
I slept very little.
After failing to convince myself that I simply had some kind of intestinal injury - I began researching MDMA.
I couldn't believe how much there was to read!
And once I realized that the serotonin system primarily drives the intestines, I truly accepted that I had brain damage.
Over the next several months I would learn many of the basics from MDMA research.
I had a decent capability for reading scientific literature, and I read profusely.
I found BL and became angry that so few stories of recovery existed.
I knew I wasn't the only one, but it seemed no one else gave a damn to share their story.
So I stepped up and started sharing mine.
And I spread the word about the 'basics' - like REDOSING causes more and more damage.
This is a simple and proven fact from the mountain of animal research that has been done.
Despite the clear evidence, most new users redose every time they take it!
I normally did...
It was the last half tab that did more damage than the other 5!
Had the culture around MDMA been even slightly more mature and aware, I would have been told this LONG AGO.
I never would have taken that last half.
I am convinced that eventually I was going to have a bad reaction and stop rolling.
But the BENEDRYL pushed me WAY over the fucking line.
If I hadn't taken those four pink pills, the MDMA would have cleared my system having done a small fraction of the damage.
I wish I had known - DPH is NOT safe with MDMA.
Benzos are - they act on GABA receptors, which shuts off the excitatory glutamate that keeps you awake.
I imagine that sleeping pills, as Andronicus suggested, would be surreal.
But valium, xanax, or kpins - very safe.
So is valerian and melatonin.
Only drugs that increase GABA are appropriate.
The only other drugs that I am aware of that have ANY impact are serotonin antagonists, which are dangerous and only used in hospital settings...
Or NMDA (glutamate receptor) antagonists like ketamine.
This is a popular post-trip drug and is very dissociating.
I imagine sleep is possible on it, but for most the dose is intended to be recreational.
It is associated with kidney and bladder damage in chronic users, but it may offer neuroprotection from amphetamines and MDMA.
I really don't recommend this approach, but it gets good reviews.
GABAergic drugs are the ONLY ones I will recommend for sleep aids post MDMA.
If DPH is to be used - it MUST be kept to LOW doses.
Like 12.5 or 25mg.
And even this might interact with CYP2D6 to increase neurotoxicity.
Sorry for the long post, but I get the feeling that somebody is going to read this that needs to.
It is difficult to sleep after MDMA for a reason - serotonin is a modulator of diverse brain functions, including sleep.
And cases of 'toxicity' frequently exhibit insomnia.
It is the 'hallmark' symptom in recovering MDMA users...and it is BAD insomnia.
We are talking feeling exhausted physically and mentally, and not being ABLE to sleep until 5 am.
For MONTHS.
And when you do sleep, even if its for 15 hours, you will NOT feel rested when you awaken!
A cruel irony.
Researchers have demonstrated altered sleep architecture in former MDMA users like me.
Including sudden REM upon falling asleep - something seen in severe depression.
I cannot communicate enough that lack of quality sleep, or sleep in general, is among the greatest agonies I faced in the first 9 months of recovery!
I was a zombie at some points - and no amount of physical exercise, sex, or sunlight could undue this reality.
The first 3 months were just unreal.
I cannot believe I survived it.
I feel like I have gone from 28 years old to 40!
Hell, the first few months I proclaimed I felt 90.
And I was dead serious.
Around month 7 of recovery I started feeling VERY tired after meals.
I literally struggled to stay awake at work.
And I swear I slept with my eyes open for 2-3 hours per day, for weeks in a row.
I can't believe I didn't get caught.
I felt like a fucking diabetic that has to take a nap after every lunch.
It may sound pitiful, but it was a WELCOME change from anxiety.
Instead of feeling tense and full of sadness, I was SLEEPY and dizzy.
Fine with me.
I actually felt like I was falling, too.
Very surreal Dp/Dr - very dream-like.
And no I didn't use any sleep meds all year except melatonin and valerian.
And they didn't do shit for me.
Only after i passed the ONE YEAR mark did I finally begin to sleep reliably and restfully every night.
Thank God.
But I am left with the innate awareness that MDMA's interference with sleep is the greatest undeniable and immediate sign of TOXICITY.
And this rant is all I have to communicate this certainty to others.
So take it for what you want, but hear me - when you cannot sleep after rolling it is because MDMA has destroyed some of your higher cortical serotonin axons.
It is neurotoxicity, and you cannot deny it if you care to pay attention.
Even the next day when you can't eat heavily and you feel the 'afterglow' - those are nasty and damaging metabolites combined with remnants of MDMA in your blood.
You can TASTE the shittiness, can't you?
Take care of yourself during this vulnerable time.
Avoid ANY drugs that inhibit hepatic enzymes - DPH and alcohol for sure.
And whatever you do, do NOT roll multiple days in a row.
It is NEVER worth it, and plenty of BL members will back me up on this statement.
Exercise will clear you out faster and reduce axonal loss.
Piracetam post roll might as well.
Just avoid the benedryl - for God's sake.
FBC
i did for 7 hours during the day this way, Following a 12 hour knocked with more weed and 2 vallies haha!
