Ethnobotanicals S-Cathinone in Young Ephedra Sinica

[G_Chem]

Another one I discovered purely due to my own experiences and feeling from the drug. I seem to have a knack for drug bioassays lol.

So the other day I took a piece of fresh young Ephedra and lipped it. 30mins later I got hit with a euphoria that couldn’t really be explained. I’ve experience with Ephedra and it’s alkaloids before and while they can feel good they’re more utilitarian than anything else. This was highly highly pleasurable as I listened to music it enhanced in a way that was nearly as good as a roll.

I started hunting around and sure enough found what I was looking for…

Composition and stereochemistry of ephedrine alkaloids accumulation in Ephedra sinica Stapf

Ephedra sinica Stapf (Ephedraceae) is a widely used Chinese medicinal plant (Chinese name: Ma Huang). The main active constituents of E. sinica are th…

www.sciencedirect.com

Young Ephedra sinica contains S-Cathinone amongst other alkaloids. While I have zero experience with it or Khat, my reading seems to correlate well with my experience.

It only lasted about an hour before I settled down into the normal ephedrine/pseudo stimulation but damn did it feel good. I’d wager it actually felt better than amphetamine or meth but it’s short duration makes it still fall behind. This reminds me of what I’ve heard some who’ve actually tried real quality methcathinone report, it hits good in the beginning but tapers off quick.

What I like about this is no need to wait for huge plants to grow, but I also wonder if they mean once plants grow large and mature if newer shoots can be used in a similar manner.. Lots more experiments need to be done.

If you want to try S-cathinone it’s as easy as growing some tiny Ephedra seedlings and then eat on those, just save some plants to get seeds in the future to re-crop.

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

Furthermore, how do we shut those enzymes down to preserve the S-cathinone if possible? Being able to use the fresh young plant is nice but if one could have it sit dried on a shelf that would be even better.

Edit- Tried some dried branches that had been sitting for awhile and I did get effects but not really euphoria just stimulating. Then about an hour ago I had some fresh of the same quantity and notice a much better more euphoric effect on par with amphetamine. I’m getting more confident that there’s a fair quantity of S-Cat of the young fresh stems.

-GC

 

[Xorkoth]

Interesting, I may give growing some a shot. Can you grow it indoors or does it need to grow outdoors?

 

[Xorkoth]

I've also always been super interested in Khat, and have heard that only the fresh leaves are really worthwhile. But given I live in the US, fresh leaves are an impossibility, unless grown.

 

[G_Chem]

I've also always been super interested in Khat, and have heard that only the fresh leaves are really worthwhile. But given I live in the US, fresh leaves are an impossibility, unless grown.

They can be grown indoors or outdoors and are fairly resistant to many conditions but alkaloids are best with drier environment.

The reason the S-Cathinone is only in the young shoots is the same reason it doesn’t last long in Khat, Cathinone reductase. It may be interesting to try and neutralize this enzyme with cold temperatures and/or pH change.

-GC

 

[LucidSDreamr]

They can be grown indoors or outdoors and are fairly resistant to many conditions but alkaloids are best with drier environment.

The reason the S-Cathinone is only in the young shoots is the same reason it doesn’t last long in Khat, Cathinone reductase. It may be interesting to try and neutralize this enzyme with cold temperatures and/or pH change.

-GC

Is R Cathinone or a racemate better than S or is S the most recreational enamtiomer? If ppl find out how to start racemizing it and get something a little better it's another lovely slap in the face against prohibition.

 

[JackARoe]

I really wonder if it is viable to grow khat from seeds and have it work. I have been meaning to try that although it has been a while since I've seen the seeds. But me not being a stimulant guy can certainly find a use for a natural one. Ephedra tea while being a good decongenstant, causes way to much anxiety in me. In fact that is what it primarily does. Even mixing with poppy tea had me nodding WITH anxiety.

Cool find on young ephedra. I am telling you we all need to experiment more and grow some things. I have no doubt chamomile will be revisited as the difference between the store bought tea bags and growing your own is big. So it is obvious that a characteristic can be there at a certain stage.

But yeah, we always have colorful people onthe forum that do some crazy interesting stuff. Where is the guy that has a bunch of khat plants and uses them in the US? lol

 

[Jabberwocky]

intriguing , that's probably why the tea I made that one time wasn't very strong, I used the biggest most mature branches iirc

 

[G_Chem]

Is R Cathinone or a racemate better than S or is S the most recreational enamtiomer? If ppl find out how to start racemizing it and get something a little better it's another lovely slap in the face against prohibition.

So the S isomer is the recreational one similar to Amphetamine, which I find interesting that the plant synthesizes the right isomer.

I do recall reading that, at least in the Khat plant, racemization does occur as part of the metabolic process. So in theory it’s possible some R isomer could form from aging, but just like racemic VS pure S-Amp I’d rather have the S aka D isomer.

Definitely noticed the difference yesterday again when I tried, had an overwhelming urge to call my mom and tell her about this plant but resisted and glad I did lol. It seems to have this push to it that’s stronger than Amp, like in terms of its feel good effects it takes me farther and deeper.

Let’s just say my previously somewhat neglected Ephedra plants are now getting much better treatment lol. This is going to be a game changer for me, excited to try this over D-Amp at shows.

Edit- Oh one more thing, I’d still be cautious to try this if Eph and PSEph give anxiety. While the effect is different I get the impression those alkaloids are still present, I don’t get anxiety of them so figured I’d mention that.

-GC

 

[Tryptamite]

Actually I think r-cathinones are more recreational. Hence why l-ephedrine makes superior MCAT to d-pseudoephedrine.

I could be wrong but I don't think I am. Strange I know you would imagine the structural similarity to amphetamines would follow the s/r d/l rules

 

[Tryptamite]

Sorry a little googling seems to indicate I am wrong.
I believe a racemic product could be preferable to enantiomeric pure product. Racemisation of d-(pseudo) or l-ephedrine is not hard and I'm sure a lot of us including the OP are familiar with the procedure.

However this is getting off track from the great plant matter find. Good work G. Is sinica the most abundant form of ephedra? I find ephedrine itself to be useful and enjoyable. Pseudo barely psychoactive.

 

[G_Chem]

Sorry a little googling seems to indicate I am wrong.
I believe a racemic product could be preferable to enantiomeric pure product. Racemisation of d-(pseudo) or l-ephedrine is not hard and I'm sure a lot of us including the OP are familiar with the procedure.

However this is getting off track from the great plant matter find. Good work G. Is sinica the most abundant form of ephedra? I find ephedrine itself to be useful and enjoyable. Pseudo barely psychoactive.

Thanks man, not sure on how common it is. These seeds were bought online a couple years ago and grown, they don’t grow super fast or I just neglect them. Alkaloids are supposed to be better in arid conditions then wet. Most likely the alkaloids are used as defense during harsher climates.

The month before trying these they were hardly watered cuz I was gone. So they may have been extra strong, and/or dry conditions could favor higher levels of S-Cathinone.

One things for sure, the S isomer is pretty euphoric. I’m actually kind of surprised, I was a little blue yesterday after trying it 2 days recent. Had the desire to use again which isn’t common with Amphetamine or Meth. Not sure if the fact it’s a plant makes it more benign feeling in my head or what, but I can see this will be one I have to watch.

I’m wondering if anyone can get the full article to the link above in an effort to see if they list quantities that they found. I’d love to know exactly how much S-Cathinone is in these young fresh shoots.

-GC

 

[Tryptamite]

Have you tried the sci-hub.cc way? All the paid articles you want for free! A quick Google and you'll figure it out basically a copy and paste of the dci or HTML address

 

[Tryptamite]

Also it's good you have a handle on the addictive nature of things. I'm trying to get off 12 year methadone and h habit. Where abouts are u if u don't mind me asking? I always thought NZ as you've talked about homebake before?

 

[G_Chem]

Have you tried the sci-hub.cc way? All the paid articles you want for free! A quick Google and you'll figure it out basically a copy and paste of the dci or HTML address

Just did but all it’s giving me is the ref and no link takes me to a full paper but I’m maybe missing something..

I’m US, home bake was purely to treat some acute pain I had which is all gone now thankfully. Once I was done with the pain I stopped the home bake. I did have a heroin addiction when I was young though that ruined my life before getting on buprenorphine. I’m still on low dose (<1mg) Bupe too. I just don’t get the same pleasure I used to from opiates and never want to turn anyone on to the nasty addiction that follows if it can be avoided.

I learned addiction at a young age, I probably done more cocaine before I was born than some have in a lifetime lol. When I was 8 my dad came into my room and gave me the decision to whether we should pack up and leave my alcoholic mom, we packed and left that night. By 16 I was snorting cocaine often as I could and drinking daily. By 20 I was on a path of recovery and ever since I’ve had a very cautious approach to substance use always viewing things in the light that things can go bad at any time. Less is more, all that..

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

I think the Cathinone is in the very young specimens, I tried a branch off a plant I’ve had for a couple years and literally felt nothing. Not even the ephedrine. What I also noticed was zero bitterness compared to before so at least one can gauge potency in that way. It’s making more sense why certain batches of this stuff are garbage.

I might grow some plants for the seeds and then use seedlings as the stimulant. The best micro-greens one could ask for!

-GC