Russian Roulette

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

<snip>
if you do ya research....you'll find otu MDMA pretty much is proven to be neurotoxic, the debate is only as to how neurotoxic and whether or not it causes irreversible damage/change...

 

[Giog]

lol, like I haven't done the research, why the attitude?

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Ime mdma is pretty fuckin predictable. Dont overdo it, weigh out ya own doses and know/trust ya sources. Hell i ate a half gram of crystal over an hour and 15 mins and i was fine

I always wonder - "What does it do for current users to make statements like this in a thread where an OP is claiming severe consequences from MDMA?"

Saying that you at a HALF GRAM is pretty etarded, buddy.
Are we supposed to pat you on the back?

Even if you didn't suffer chest pains and months of anxiety, are you so arrogant as to believe you suffered no 'damage'?
I frequently used around 500mg per night.
Look at my username...

Giog -
Sudden chest pain is a hallmark of serotonin syndrome.
Ironically, serotonin syndrome and acute MDMA reactions are pretty much identical.
Even the normal process of coming up and peaking on MDMA shares many features in common with SS.

It could be argued that MDMA induces a mild version of SS in all users.

Since you are at 4 months post roll and still experiencing significant anxiety, I should inform you that the typical recovery process takes around 1 year. In heavier users it can take 2, but the vast majority of MDMA victims recovery 'clinically' within 12-18 months.
This is supported by multiple lines of research, including self-reported anxiety/depression and fMRI scans.

PET scans and cortisol/prolactin tests reveal ongoing or permanent loss of serotonergic function up to 3 years of abstinence.
Past this, there needs to be more research.

But the psychological data is firm - 12 to 18 months is necessary for anxiety to pass.
Several BL members have claimed a transition occurs around one year, with others admitting that some lingering effects are persistent beyond this. But the attitude typically changes and this is visible in posts.

If you are already exercising daily, you are doing the best possible thing for your brain.
Healthy diet is important too, but working out make WAY more difference.

And your intestinal discomfort is something I can relate to.
When it all began, I had SEVERE anxiety and pain just below my stomach within 2 hours of eating.
As time went on, my gut seemed to gain function.
Now, I experience tenderness or odd sensation VERY low in the GI - like down in the large intestine.

It has been a long and difficult process, but the gut seems to be much more capable of handling whatever I chose to eat.
I must admit, I couldn't stomach fast food until month six!
And it took me the ENTIRE year to regain all the weight I lost in the first month.
Of course I have been working out the whole time, but my ability to put thirty pounds back on seem directly tied to the functionality of my GI.

Let me know if you have any questions.
I am not keen on rambling tonight, as I usually do.
Until next time.

 

[Andronicus]

I've seen this sort of thing before. Typically someone takes a hefty dose of stimulants and get an anxiety attack and then they are sensitized to anxiety for a while afterwards. I've no idea if it's PTSD or akin to it but it just seems to open the doors to anxiety. It might even be as simple as someone finding out just what real fear is like and knowing it can come out of the blue like that and so you're anxious about anxiety.

I've had a handful of anxiety attacks on drugs in my life - about 3 on MDMA/speed and 1 on coke. I've felt quite literally like I was dying and was making peace with myself knowing this was the end. You don't normally go through that sort of thing outside of drugs except in very unusual circumstances like cancer or having gun pulled on you. Try to think the last time you were THAT scared not on drugs (or before this thing started)? Probably never. So it's not surprising it can break you a bit for a while.

They certainly affected me for a while afterwards, making me feel low and worried but I got over them.

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

first bad comedown, i'm sure there was damage but not that i could FEEL.
half gram once isn't going to make you mentally deficient for life...

 

[Darksidesam]

I think that everyones brain works differently, some of us produce more serotonin than others. Some of us can possibly store more or less too in our brains.

Also maybe our brains take different amounts of times to re-wire and many other factors come into play too,
OP maybe your just unfortunate, but try Valerian root as i said in my PM it should help you with your anxiety,
Good luck

May the force be with you

 

[trainwreckmolly]

after the only time i COMPLETELY overdid it on the molly (roughly 750mg of pure crystal) i had some serious anxiety issues for months after. i quit using mdma for almost 3 months after this. i noticed it was the worst when i would smoke weed. i would take a few bong rips and have full blown panic attacks. you know what ended up curing me of this? going to another music festival and rolling again. i actually had a panic attack when i walked into the festival grounds. it was like the thumping bass was going the same rate as my heart. luckily i had half a mg of xanax with me that i ended up taking and calming down for a little bit. about three hours later, i consumed my mdma, rolled face, and haven't had any anxiety issues since then, even when i smoke weed. i think a lot of it was in my head and it was like rolling again flipped the proverbial switch back. i know one thing is for sure, i'll never come close to that high of a dose again. less is more.

 

[Giog]

First Bad Comedown, I just thought I should correct you when you say that it has been 4 months. It has been 11 months and on NYE it will be exactly one year since my traumatic rolling experience. I am contemplating going to a rave again for NYE but I would not roll, however I might consider taking adderall, however I most likely will not because I had severe heart pain for weeks after my incident and I still have it to this day. It comes on sometimes at night when I am in bed or sometimes when I go run... I can pretty much trigger it myself and it usually goes away.

Interesting trainwreckmolly.... I don't think I am ready at this point to experiment like you did. I considered that notion many times, but it makes little sense physiologically, even though psychologically it does.... sigh

 

[Giog]

Thanks darksidedsam! I will definitely try valerian and tell you how it goes.

 

[wombus erectus]

Glog, I suffered anxiety for a long time and I tryed the SNRI cymbalta. The side effects are not the best but it turned my life around and got rid of my anxiety. It seriously saved my life, but you have to decide wether you want to put up with the nasty side effects (which the most terrible ones go away with in the first couple of weeks). Some of the side effects though can stay with you for a while though so look into it..

or alternatively try finding a product with Rhodiola in it. I take that at the moment and I feel great. Plus its natural, not like the SNRI or SSRIS.

even seek therapy if its been almost a year... hope you feel better soon!

 

[somedud]

MDMA downregulates 5ht receptors, and their subtypes, same with SSRI/SNRI's.

IMO and IME id stay away from them, in the long run they'll only slow you down.

Now ST Johns wort, kira/perkia brain in particular, are shown to senstize and upregulate 5h1a and 5ht2b receptors, which is why it brings the magic back in some, and is great fror mdma induced problems.

 

[Giog]

Update: One year mark

I have tried many herbs suggested by members of this forum. The only herb that SLIGHTLY helped was Valerian Root.... and even then I needed to take over 700mg for noticeable results. Anyways, my anxiety is still very much present. Driving, without a doubt, is the easiest trigger. Every single time I am on the road my anxiety levels are high, unless I have a friend in the car with me, but even then sometimes. Almost every time that I open a book and start reading or work on an assignment I get anxious. At night, my anxiety soars almost everyday. As more time passes the anxiety really does not seem to significantly decrease. Since it has been one year, I have started to note patterns of when it is triggered as I described above. What worries me is that this anxiety has basically intertwined itself with my life that it honestly seems hard to believe it will just go away (I remain optimistic as I really have no other choice).

It is incredibly difficult to have to be going through this during college. Fortunately, this is my last semester before I graduate. I really don't know what else to say, I have read many threads on here, done my own research, and I had hoped that after the first year (I realize 1 year means nothing as it is different for everyone, but still) things would start getting better. I think that at a point it did get better, but last semester at school was honestly INSANE, and by the last month I really did not think I was going to survive(emotionally). My anxiety has been worse since last semester.

I feel that many people reading this will think that I have always had anxiety since I am even starting to feel like that is the case since I have had it for a year now and I am getting used to it. However, I had practically never experienced anxiety and didn't even know what it was until a few months after my horrible experience with ecstasy. There really isn't much else I can do but stay optimistic, exercise, and pray that this anxiety, which has put me at great dis-ease, goes away.

Another thing: I smoke weed about once a month or less and it never seems to trigger my anxiety as many have mentioned... I still enjoy it every time. I will however probably not have any more for a while.... the only drugs I consume are alcohol(once a month).

Interesting note: I try describing to many people what it is like to have anxiety. I also hear from certain people about how they feel about anxiety (in the literal sense). I have noticed that my anxiety is characterized primarily by a tightening of the stomach/gut (or so it feels that way, and right now it is that way as I type this... SO UNCOMFORTABLE). The worse the anxiety, the tighter my stomach/guts become. I also notice a change in cognition as I can no longer 'time' things properly, my reflexes are way off, and my reasoning just gets awful. Other people have told me that they do not get the stomach tightening...I mean I couldn't say 100% that what I have is anxiety as there is no objective measure for it... but it is the only thing that I can think that it would be. I guess people have different physical symptoms.

Past note: I ended up just drinking on NYE.... (had the time of my life) in case anyone was wondering lol... felt like I was rolling no joke. I did the same things that I do when I am rolling (as when I am really drunk) it's very interesting from a behavioral point of view. I went up to random girls and asked them for a kiss... at a house party! sigh....(I got the kisses at least... )

Last edit I swear: I remember now that I figured out for myself that I really do have anxiety. How? Basically, I get anxious thinking about anxiety. Moreover, I get anxious that I am anxious.... and that to me is a classic definition or expression of an anxiety disorder.

 

[Nephtys]

Have you considered starting meditation?

 

[Giog]

I have, yes. I have had two previous meditative experiences that were amazing. Both of my meditative experiences were 'guided'. The first time it was in school in one of my art classes and I swear the feeling that came over me after that meditation was the BEST FEEELING IN THE WORLD. My entire body was in a relaxed state that I never knew existed. My mind was clear and I just freaken felt good. This state lasted for two days. The second experience was at home and it was not as profound but it did help and I did have an out of body experience. I really do need to practice meditation though, as I find myself lacking time or effort for it :/

(my explanation for my first meditative experience does not do it justice. IT WAS AMAZING!!!!!! and I remember being speechless by the fact that such a state can be achieved without drugs, and imo it was better than any high I have ever had.)

 

[Renz Envy]

Even if you didn't suffer chest pains and months of anxiety, are you so arrogant as to believe you suffered no 'damage'?
I frequently used around 500mg per night.
Look at my username...

Giog -
Sudden chest pain is a hallmark of serotonin syndrome.
Ironically, serotonin syndrome and acute MDMA reactions are pretty much identical.
Even the normal process of coming up and peaking on MDMA shares many features in common with SS.

Panic attacks and anxiety disorder make it VERY easy to believe something is seriously wrong with you. Overusing just about any stimulant until you have become "sensitive" to over stimulation is setting yourself up for a panic attack. Think about the thousands of people that down 10-20 "E-pills" a weekend and never suffer SS.

Does that mean that chest pain, arm tingles, dizziness, muscle twitching and irrational fear of dying are serotonin syndrome? No. That will be, more often than not, a panic attack.

One thing in which needs to be clarified is that the most dangerous situations while on drugs are the situations we do not see coming or feel fine while symptoms are building up.

I believe that the eventual neurotoxicity to SE receptors leads individuals to have issues with anxiety for deficiency reasons. I and my friend have both rolled equally as many times and have a VERY similar drug history. We both have developed panic disorder if we take a stimulant. Does it make me more anxious in person? It used to, however I have learned to cope with anxiety and push myself into any situation.

To my experience, any time a person does long-term/permanent damage to reward system receptors, a "hallmark" symptom is anxiety.

Update: One year mark
My anxiety has been worse since last semester.

I have always had anxiety ... never experienced anxiety

I try describing to many people what it is like to have anxiety...

I figured out for myself that I really do have anxiety... I get anxious thinking about anxiety.

I recommend to exercise and get more sleep. You mentioned that you had a "bad experience on ecstasy." Well in my opinion, had it been a good experience you would not be having anxiety issues. I have had horrific experiences on a number of stimulants and suffered awful anxiety. To the point where I would get an ice cold feeling at the back of my head if I tried to talk with a girl. I found the best cure was to not dwell on it. Sure enough, given 2 weeks I was back and perfectly fine.

You probably have developed a mild case of anxiety brought out by a panic attack. This can cause you to take a more "passive" social stance. Just know that the damage you have done is not irreversible. You will get better. Denationalization does not matter so long as YOU feel good doing what you're doing.

One good piece of advice is to REALLY enjoy yourself for a little while. Do what you love. Then try and convince us that your anxiety is real.

 

[Giog]

@ Renz Envy:

First, thanks for the suggestions and words, any help at this stage is very much appreciated. However, regarding the night where I had a horrible experience, I have one very strong reason to believe it was NOT a panic attack, but rather SS. This is because, I was having the best night of my life (everyone says that I know, you're on ecstasy, but it was a night where I was able to live out some of my deepest life long dreams), a night that satisfied all of my greatest desires. THEN, in the blink of a eye, my world went to shit. It was like, a switch went off, and suddenly I started feeling like I was going to die! There was an increase in that feeling. The transition was from |Best night of my life| > 30seconds> |What's going on....I don't feel good, my heart feels weird| > That feeling increased exponentially > 5 minutes later > | HELP!!!! I THINK I AM DYING!!!!| my friends were not around

+ Interesting the way you put it. I could agree 100%, I definitely feel 'sensitized' to ANY stimulation. That is a perfect way to describe my problem. Like even writing this right now, since I was rushing, I got anxious, as I felt the stimulation and pressure to get this done.

 

[Renz Envy]

@ Renz Envy:

First, thanks for the suggestions and words, any help at this stage is very much appreciated. However, regarding the night where I had a horrible experience, I have one very strong reason to believe it was NOT a panic attack, but rather SS. This is because, I was having the best night of my life (everyone says that I know, you're on ecstasy, but it was a night where I was able to live out some of my deepest life long dreams), a night that satisfied all of my greatest desires. THEN, in the blink of a eye, my world went to shit. It was like, a switch went off, and suddenly I started feeling like I was going to die! There was an increase in that feeling. The transition was from |Best night of my life| > 30seconds> |What's going on....I don't feel good, my heart feels weird| > That feeling increased exponentially > 5 minutes later > | HELP!!!! I THINK I AM DYING!!!!| my friends were not around

That sounds like a panic attack. To be honest SS is a life-threatening condition in which usually occurs from a bad drug interaction. MDMA can induce SS, but you would begin to twitch uncontrollably and possibly lose control of your body. The situation you were in was not life threatening, therefore I am willing to bet it was a anxiety attack.

Panic can happen in the blink of the eye. A slight thought about your health and well-being can trigger an attack. Especially if you have used alcohol or MDMA in the past.

 

[Giog]

And another thing: My anxiety is directly linked with mental stimulation. Physical stimulation and social situations cause me no anxiety, or no more than the normal amount that I had before (which never caused physical symptoms, was never a problem, and I never considered anxiety as it is a normal reaction).

 

[Giog]

You might be right in that it was a panic attack. But I just want to make clear that the feeling proceeded the "Omg, what is happening to me". I felt like a wave of "unhappiness" or "downness" come over me and THEN I started to get worried. It wasn't me thinking randomly about my health, and then triggering an effect.

correction: PREceded!

 

[Renz Envy]

As is mine. If I take a stimulant it will enrage my thoughts at 1000 miles per hour until they eventually begin to focus on my heart rate, or brain, as soon as my thoughts begin to think about how I feel and if I am in a bad situation for taking the stimulant, I go into panic.

Panic is a moment of complete derealization, for that moment you are completely convinced that you will die. There is no explanation feasible that can express how frightening it is. By definition a peaking episode of panic mania is the most frightening experience the body can put you through.

Symptoms With my stimulant induced panic:
Chest pain (Hyperventilation)

Racing thoughts always returning to if I have a health defect and if the stimulant medication is going to finally kill me this time.

Tingling sensations in arms
Dizziness
Depersonalization
Speediness/jitters (I talk really fast during a panic attack.)
Complete inability to concentrate.

The problem with panic attacks is that they become whatever you are most afraid of. If you fear a heart attack, they will manifest its symptoms. If you fear stroke or "SS" you will feel the symptoms of SS.

Pain is difficult to feel and recognize rationally because your thoughts are so dissociated. You are probably not in a lot of physical pain.

You might be right in that it was a panic attack. But I just want to make clear that the feeling PROceeded the "Omg, what is happening to me". I felt like a wave of "unhappiness" or "downness" come over me and THEN I started to get worried. It wasn't me thinking randomly about my health, and then triggering an effect.

I recommend talking to a doctor about the issue and explaining it as clearly and accurately as you can. I am willing to bet it was an anxiety attack due to some kind of stimulus or perhaps tolerance.

You noticed these feelings of uneasiness, which leads me to believe that the simple shift in your mindset from exterior stimulus to interior stimulus is what triggered the attack.