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Rugby World Cup 2007

Oh yeah, I fully agree...but Steve Walsh is evil and should be destroyed (but that's all to do with NZ domestic rugby, not the international game).
 
^^

However, that said, Jonathon Kaplan can eat my shit and die. Seriously. I hate that man. May have a little to do with me being a Brumbies fan, and Jonathon Kaplan being ridiculously biased against the Brumbies... fucker.
 
Infinite Jest said:
I don't think anyone of us would argue with you on that. England are clearly not the best team in the world right now; but they are in the final and they've beaten two good teams to get there. If they win the Cup, I don't think anyone will say they don't deserve it (though if Argentina beat SA then the Springboks might have something to say about that :)).
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i will gladly, repeatedly and loudly say that they don't deserve it.

what an uninspired, dreadfully fucking nothing team England are. with the exception of the horrible mistake-try at the start of the France game, when did England last score a try against top-class opposition? it would be a crying, awful, shocking shame if England were to win the world cup courtesy of their unimaginative, stifling, despicably unambitious rugby.

it just smacks of the death of ideas... the stale, rank smell of abject nothingness.

it would be a travesty if a team like England managed to force South Africa into abandoning the more open, more imaginative, more alive, more gutsy, more beautiful game in favour of another grinding, joyless, penalties-for-Wonderboy sludge match. i sincerely hope for the good of the game that it doesn't happen. i sincerly hope for the good of South Africa that they force England to meet them on their terms.

i can't imagine a time when England supporters, thus far, have felt energised and excited by their team's play. the results, maybe - and no-one can deny a dramatic transformation in the team's fortune. but when was the last time anyone felt anything like real emotion watching the stolid, stodgy, deathly-dull OAP wank which parades as the English approach?

contrast their performances with South Africa, who have had an easier passage so far, but have still managed to shine. look at Du Preez's inspired performances. Steyn's frequently misguided but thoroughly heartfelt runs. Habana's incredible surges of speed and deftness of touch. sure, RSA have kicked for goal - often stupidly. but when they have the ball you feel excited. you feel like something might happen. like you're actually watching a proper professional game of rugby not a bunch of pissed rhinos aimlessly, endlessly driving themselves into the ground.

rugby is beautiful.

england are fuck ugly.

if there is justice in the world they will not be rewarded for it again.
 
oh, and apologies for the rant - i should point out i have been driven to distraction by the coverage here in England. some stories were so wilfully offensive, and traded in such tired stereotypes, that it was almost unbelievable.

[edit: the offending article has been removed!]

[re-edit: it's back! here]
 
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dr seuss said:
i will gladly, repeatedly and loudly say that they don't deserve it.

what an uninspired, dreadfully fucking nothing team England are. with the exception of the horrible mistake-try at the start of the France game, when did England last score a try against top-class opposition? it would be a crying, awful, shocking shame if England were to win the world cup courtesy of their unimaginative, stifling, despicably unambitious rugby.

it just smacks of the death of ideas... the stale, rank smell of abject nothingness.

it would be a travesty if a team like England managed to force South Africa into abandoning the more open, more imaginative, more alive, more gutsy, more beautiful game in favour of another grinding, joyless, penalties-for-Wonderboy sludge match. i sincerely hope for the good of the game that it doesn't happen. i sincerly hope for the good of South Africa that they force England to meet them on their terms.

i can't imagine a time when England supporters, thus far, have felt energised and excited by their team's play. the results, maybe - and no-one can deny a dramatic transformation in the team's fortune. but when was the last time anyone felt anything like real emotion watching the stolid, stodgy, deathly-dull OAP wank which parades as the English approach?

contrast their performances with South Africa, who have had an easier passage so far, but have still managed to shine. look at Du Preez's inspired performances. Steyn's frequently misguided but thoroughly heartfelt runs. Habana's incredible surges of speed and deftness of touch. sure, RSA have kicked for goal - often stupidly. but when they have the ball you feel excited. you feel like something might happen. like you're actually watching a proper professional game of rugby not a bunch of pissed rhinos aimlessly, endlessly driving themselves into the ground.

rugby is beautiful.

england are fuck ugly.

if there is justice in the world they will not be rewarded for it again.
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Great rant! =D

Well written piece of literature that. :D
 
dr seuss said:
rugby is beautiful.

england are fuck ugly.

if there is justice in the world they will not be rewarded for it again.
Click to expand...

Well, you'll surely realise that as a New Zealander I would support absolutely anyone ahead of England, and that my first words were probably "this boring ten man game the English are playing is an insult to true rugby" =D But I still say that if they get the win, they will have played the best rugby (yeah, best in terms of winning not best in terms of beauty*, but if we gave prizes to the team who deserved to win the tournament on aesthetics and breath-taking skill, the All Blacks would have three or four world cups by now) and deserved it (you beat Australia, France and SA in successive weeks, you deserve the win).

BUT, I fully agree with your hopes that S Africa continue playing proper rugby, and crush the English as they did in the first game. Which they surely will. The South Africans have got strength all through the team, they can take on the English up front AND run it wide. They should be fine.

(btw, I didn't see the first five minutes of England-France, so I had no idea that they didn't deserve that try...).

*Go read Stoppard's Professional Foul. He explains it better than I am.
 
I keep dreaming England are playing a cunning psychological game & will amaze & dazzle us all next weekend. I am an optimist, unrealistic as well, I know this.
 
^^^
You gonna get F'ed in the A on Saturday, enjoy your delusions of grandeur while they last! :p :)

The boks will snag and discipline those rose-bearing pansies like a naked Gordon Brown naked in a seedy gay darkroom.
 
*bows low, dressed in regal livery so as not to awake bee9 from his dream of world domination*

=D
 
dr seuss said:
GGGGRRRRRRRAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
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Even by your lofty standards that's quite the vitriolic invective you've unleashed against the English rugby team there seuss. Well done! :D

Are England ugly?

Yes, horrifically ugly, & I give no credence to those English rugby supporters who claim that they aren't. They're usually the same people who will try & tell you that Jonny Wilkinson is the greatest fly-half that the world has ever seen.

I would love for England to play beautifully flowing 15-man rugby, stretching the ball out across the full width of the pitch, running in tries from their own 22, & displaying sensational handling skills, really I would.

But more than that I want them to win. And in order for a team to win it has to play to its strengths, not to some lofty ideal to which all should aspire (unless you're New Zealand, in which case the two are one & the same). England's strengths lie predominantly in powerful forward play at the set-piece & breakdown, & a kicker who, when the chips are down invariably produces the goods. It isn't pretty, it won't light up Paris, but it has proven brutally effective.

The bottom line is that England have managed to engineer themselves a place in the World Cup final. When it has mattered they've produced the performances that have enabled them, against seemingly insurmountable odds, to progress in a tournament in which no-one outside of their own camp believed they had a chance in.

If England were to win the World Cup again, then a team of abject no-hopers, who possessed zero cohesion as a unit coming into the tournament, pilloried as the worst defending world champions in any sport ever, would have completely turned around their fortunes through sheer bloody-mindedness & defied the rugby world. In doing this they would have beaten the much-fancied Australians when no-one thought they would, nullified the French in their own backyard (who let's not forget managed to best the All Blacks), & suffocated the electrifying talents of South Africa.

And they wouldn't deserve it? Bollocks.

Top-level competitive sport is not just about who can produce the most attractive, crowd-pleasing magic, it's also about who has the mental fortitude on the given day. If a team can marry the two, then so much the better, and history praises teams that manage to do it - see the Australian cricket team of the past decade, or the Brazilian football team of the 70's for examples.

The All Blacks had a golden opportunity to write their place in the history books as one of those teams this year, but when the crunch time came, one half of that equation disintegrated. All the talent & exceptional skill that was threaded right throughout the team came to nought, & I bet you that all those Antipodeans who are now bemoaning the insufferable English success at this tournament, would willingly trade a few of those skills in their respective teams for a dose of the gritty refusal to lose that England has displayed in getting this far, if it meant they could have the chance to claim the title of world champions.

As Infinite Jest says, World Cups aren't handed out purely on artistic merit, or given to the most exciting team. If they were, Fiji would be in the final & William Webb-Ellis would have taken a trip to the Welsh valleys at some point. ;)

So I agree with your eloquent deconstruction of England's playing style seuss, but to gladly, repeatedly & loudly proclaim that in winning the tournament they wouldn't deserve it, is a little disingenuous I feel.

All this is rather academic though I fear, as I struggle to see England beating South Africa. The Boks can go toe-to-toe with the English pack & have more than enough talent in the back line to broach the English defence. Habana is already the star of this tournament, & the thought of him streaking away down the pitch, ball-in-hand, with a huge smile on his face, sends shudders down my spine!

The only way I can see England winning is due to a monumental fuck-up on the part of South Africa, & this is highly unlikely.

But you never know.......;)


On a lighter(?) note, the 3rd-place play-off was an uncharacteristically exciting game I thought. Argentina scored some sensational tries, have cemented their place amongst the world's elite, & have been one of the undoubted highlights of the tournament.
 
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well stated, and of course i agree on most points :D you do, of course, recognise hyperbole when you see it :D

it just feels good, when surrounded by the kind of jingoistic hoo-rah bullshit which saturates our fair press, to let off steam... particularly when faced with the offensive tired racial stereotyping of certain journos, and particularly since practically everyone prefers aesthetically pleasing play to grinding numbnuttery, with the sole exception of the devoted patriotic fan.

and sometimes, not even then. i loved michael schumacher's ability to consistently bang in fastest sectors, laps and stints time after time. i once stood at the entry to the priory at silverstone for friday free practice and every lap - every single lap - he hit a bump on the right-hand side of the circuit, just outside the racing line. it can't have been more than 4 inches long, and no-one else went near it, but he used it to just tip the car into the corner ever so slightly. it was a stunning display of total commitment and utter reliability, and just as breathtaking as the lap times he was producing.

but did i support schumacher in the next four world championships? did i fuck. did it stick in my teeth when ferrari ground out yet another 1-2, using their brute financial strength to crush opponents before the season had even started, deploying a cynical and ugly methodology in pursuit of the only thing that matters - winning...? it sure did, and i still haven't forgiven them.

the same applies with the aussie cricket team... i want them to win the ashes, sure. but i take no joy in seeing them employ cynical, base tactics to crush an out-of-form Zanzibar B team. why agree to take the light when you have four hundred runs and seven wickets in hand? why bowl beamers at amateur opponents when a series is won? it turns me right off.

that clinical ruthlessness of which you spoke is of course the defining characteristic of the modern sportsperson. to win, above all else. how the victory took place is entirely unimportant - it is the result that matters. this is the kind of thinking which led Schumacher to celebrate his 'win' in the infamous 6-car US GP. it is the thinking which leads to the Bodyline series.

whilst it's occasionally thrilling to watch someone performing under such conditions, it's also often exasperating. particularly when the emphasis seems to be on negative campaigning. of course england want to force their opposition to play to their game plan.. one rooted in set-pieces and mindless boofery ;) of course they won those matches for a reason.

it's just so desparately ugly. it's this sense of just doing enough... just keep grinding, slowing things down, playing negatively, creating nothing, until the last few minutes when everyone can pass to the only pointscoring member of the team. well clap fucking clap :D

oh, and as a final aside - victory would mean so much more to south africa as a country than it would to england. the rugby only made the front page of the sun when england's football team lost, and the headline was 'now england's rugby gods must save the nation'. this weekend we face the very real (and imho very desirable) prospect of a british F1 world champion for the first time in ages. when was the last time a south african team or individual won something with the kind of global impact that the RWC or F1 driver's championship represents? england had their moment in 2003, and proud we are of all of them etc. etc... but victory in south africa would be something else.

the socio-politico-cultural aspect of it appeals to my bleeding heart irrationality. south africa has had an awe-inspiring 12 years - and not always in the good way. the country has bled and suffered in a way modern england cannot comprehend. an english rugby victory would result in yet another open-top bus parade, but would be relegated to the back pages as soon as Shit Football Club FC manager Mr Bob Dullness makes some statement about transferring Foreign Football-Dickhead to Wank FC. from all i've heard the energy back in SA is just incredible. people are revisiting the visceral power of the last time the Bokke were in a final; that unity and power and emotional togetherness which was so very cathartic. madiba wearing the jersey; pienaar shaking his hand - these were incredibly powerful and important things which happened. and in light of recent events (such as the killing of Lucky Dube yesterday, RIP :(:(:() the country badly needs a lift. england doesn't need fuck all.

so - COME ON BOKKE, and COME ON LEWIS!! :D :D :D
 
^^^

Well said!!!(except that bit about Schumacher and Ferrari, I believe in motor sports it is about the cold, mechanical engineering of victory, for F1 this is doubly true). The important thing is, GO SPRINGBOKS!!!!!!!!!! :) :)
 
Well its only a couple hours away and as suess said, the spirit here is incredible, everywhere I go people are wearing bok shirts, me wearing an England shirt just to be different ;)

BUT GO BOKS GO!
 
What's the support like for the Springboks among the Black population? Obviously soccer has historically been more popular - is rugby gaining any ground?

Pinhole: see, the whole 'All Blacks as entertainers' thing is kinda a myth that we use to confuse the rest of you ;) - We've always valued a good loose forward or hooker or first five more than a wing (think Clarke or Meads or Fitzpatrick or Shelford or Jones or McCaw or Carter). And we were sure good at winning ugly back in the day. But I digress....

12-6at the moment, and England are playing pretty much how I expect. This is the point at which South Africa have pulled away in earlier games - can they do the same? Or will cool English heads prevail? And how did that idiot get so close to the action before the security guards caught him?
 
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right i'm going to bed :D
 
Very close for the first half I would say. Neither backline really got any ball all night apart from a run each from Tait & Steyn in the second half. Kick kick kick kick. England did have the better of the breakdown but couldn't captialise on it. South Africa held their own in the scrum and belted the English at line outs.

France & Argentina was a far more exciting game. The Argentinians really are a brilliant team. Good foward pack and brilliance at 9,12 & 15.
 
Cheers yossarian.

Ah well, that's it for me. I'm over Rugby. Not just because my team sucks balls, but because for the most part the games I watched were all shite. I know a lot of you love that sort of rugby but not me. I like smashing it up the middle, opening gaps in the defence and scoring tries. The game has moved away from this.

I don't remember feeling this disillusoned the last 4 times we lost.

Rugby league, or more specificly the NRL is much more entertaining IMO.

I'm depressed.
 
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