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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Roadside Drug Testing....

^^^^^
Go out and get yourself busted again so you can test the theory... if it works, bonus! If it doesn't, it'd be your second offence and at least you'd be off the road...
 
^^^
Yeah good call.

staple_it - the best way to foil a drug test, is to not take any drugs before driving.

I know... it's genius!
 
staple_it: I read your other thread and sort of forgot to ask this question in there but it's relevant here anyway, did you're car or person get searched when you returned a positive result to the saliva test?
 
The bill also proposes that drivers found guilty of dangerous driving be disqualified from driving - even if they are not convicted.

Does that not seem like a contradiction in terms to anyone else? If you are not convicted then in what way are you a 'driver found guilty'?

Also even if they are getting 1 in 67 test up positive, the tests themselves have a fairly high false positive result,

this study seems to indicate that with the 1st generation drugwipes 3 out of 52 test subjects came up as false positives.

You have to wonder whether this figure of 1 in 67 is reflecting a bunch of false positives that are later cleared by the lab tests. Either way this seems like a lot of expense with not really that thrilling results.
 
^ There's provisions in most of the general law to find a defendant guilty of the crime but record no conviction. The idea is that, for your first offence or so, the judge can decide that you've shown remorse for your offence, and that you've plead guilty, and that your chance of reoffence is low. Having a criminal conviction leads to a criminal record, which has quite serious adverse effects when speaking to employers etc.

See for example s10 of the Crimes (Sentencing Procedure) Act 1999 (NSW):
CRIMES (SENTENCING PROCEDURE) ACT 1999 - SECT 10
Dismissal of charges and conditional discharge of offender
10 Dismissal of charges and conditional discharge of offender

(1) Without proceeding to conviction, a court that finds a person guilty of an offence may make any one of the following orders:
(a) an order directing that the relevant charge be dismissed,
(b) an order discharging the person on condition that the person enter into a good behaviour bond for a term not exceeding 2 years,
(c) an order discharging the person on condition that the person enter into an agreement to participate in an intervention program and to comply with any intervention plan arising out of the program.

(2) An order referred to in subsection (1) (b) may be made if the court is satisfied:
(a) that it is inexpedient to inflict any punishment (other than nominal punishment) on the person, or
(b) that it is expedient to release the person on a good behaviour bond.
(2A) An order referred to in subsection (1) (c) may be made if the court is satisfied that it would reduce the likelihood of the person committing further offences by promoting the treatment or rehabilitation of the person.
(2B) Subsection (1) (c) is subject to Part 8C.

(3) In deciding whether to make an order referred to in subsection (1), the court is to have regard to the following factors:
(a) the person’s character, antecedents, age, health and mental condition,
(b) the trivial nature of the offence,
(c) the extenuating circumstances in which the offence was committed,
(d) any other matter that the court thinks proper to consider.
(4) An order under this section has the same effect as a conviction:
(a) for the purposes of any law with respect to the revesting or restoring of stolen property, and
(b) for the purpose of enabling a court to give directions for compensation under Part 4 of the Victims Compensation Act 1996 , and
(c) for the purpose of enabling a court to give orders with respect to the restitution or delivery of property or the payment of money in connection with the restitution or delivery of property.

(5) A person with respect to whom an order under this section is made has the same right to appeal on the ground that the person is not guilty of the offence as the person would have had if the person had been convicted of the offence.
 
There's provisions in most of the general law to find a defendant guilty of the crime but record no conviction.

Just what protection does this offer a person anyway?

I mean; I know of three instances where previous non-recordable convictions have been read aloud in court by the magistrate when reviewing past criminal history. Two of these people did have some history, but for one bloke it was his only conviction ever!!

Also, when filling out a application forms such as that required to become an Aussie citizen, or when applying for a visa, or to get HECS, or to receive a blue card to do community work; are you required to mention this so called "non-recorded conviction"?

Frankly, I don't think it's worth anything. If you don't mention it and a department etc finds out about it, it's very likely you'll be rejected, and most of these types of departments - like credit agencies - aren't obliged to provide any reason for their refusal.

Perhaps you can enlighten me VelocideX on the real value of the NRC. I'm beginning to think it's just a way of preventing/ dissuading a person from attempting to overturn, or dispute the outcome?
 
You're not required to disclose it to employers, as far as I know, which is an immense advantage.

It is relevant for future sentencing (hence why your friends had it discussed in court).

US Visa applications require you to disclose any circumstance where you have been found guilty by a court of an offence, even if no conviction was recorded.

It's not really used to prevent a person from challenging the decision, as far as I can see. Most people generally plead guilty to get s10s... if you'd been convincted and you were innocent, why wouldn't you appeal anyway?
 
You're not required to disclose it to employers, as far as I know, which is an immense advantage.

I agree. I wonder whether this is accross the board though e.g. working in a community based job where background checks are used prior to employment.
 
I have had to have background checks done in the past for volunteer jobs such as being a scout leader. When they do these checks they look at your criminal record, which only records criminal convictions.

As far as I understand it from talking to various people involved in the system, the reasons for not recording the conviction include relevance for future sentencing, as VelocideX said, but also specifically so, even though there IS a record of it, it doesn't affect you for things like employment.

Thats why if you are taken to court for something, even though you may be found guilty, the magistrate can decide to not have the conviction recorded based on whether they feel you have shown remorse/have learnt your lesson etc.
 
Criminal Justice Diversion Program

Diversion provides mainly first time offenders with the opportunity to avoid a criminal record by undertaking conditions that will benefit the offender, victim and the community as a whole.

Benefits of Diversion

The diversion program is aimed at improving the efficient use of court resources by facilitating the development of an alternative and/or complementary procedure to normal case processes.

The Magistrates' Court intends the program to provide benefits:

* By ensuring that appropriate restitution is made to the victim of the offence and where appropriate to tender an apology to the victim either by letter or in person;
* Through the prevention of reoffending ;
* By avoiding an accessible criminal record;
* By assisting the offender's rehabilitation;
* By utilising community resources for appropriate counselling or treatment; and
* By assisting local community projects with voluntary work and donations

Criteria for Eligibility

The following criteria must be met before a diversion can be recommended:

* The offence is triable summarily;
* The defendant admits the facts;
* There is sufficient evidence to gain a conviction; and
* A diversion is appropriate in the circumstances.

The over-riding consideration is that diversion be appropriate in the circumstances. The existence of prior convictions does not disqualify an offender from this program but is a fact to be considered in determining appropriateness.

Offences punishable by a minimum or fixed sentence or penalty are not appropriate for diversion.

Anyone can raise the issue of diversion throughout the court process. However, diversion cannot commence without the consent of the prosecution.

Diversion Notice

The filing of a diversion notice indicates prosecution consent.

Once deemed suitable by the prosecuting agency, the court must also deem the defendant suitable before the matter may proceed by way of diversion.

Court Hearings

Victims

Where a charge involves a victim, the Court will seek their view of the matter. This may contain information as to the amount of compensation sought due to property damage and whether any expression of apology from the person charged would be valued. Views may be expressed by way of letter or in person on the day. The court also undertakes to notify the victim of any outcome if requested to do so.


Interview

Prior to the defendant's appearance before a Magistrate, the diversion Co-ordinator will interview him/her so as to identify the major issues in the case and to formulate a suggested outcome. This is done to assist the presiding Magistrate and to lessen the required amount of court time.


In Court

A diversion hearing is conducted in open court before a Magistrate. At the diversion hearing the Magistrate will assess the suitability of the offender for Diversion and a diversion plan will be developed which may require the offender to:

* Apologise to the victim by way of a letter or in person;
* Compensate the victim;
* Attend for counselling and treatment;
* Perform community work;
* Make a monetary donation to a charitable organisation, local community project or the like; and/or
* Attend a defensive driving course.

The charges will be adjourned while the diversion plan is undertaken.

Conditions Completed
If the conditions are successfully met, the charges are discharged on the return date and the outcome is recorded in a similar manner as a caution. It therefore does not form part of the person's formal criminal record and is not available to employer's etc and cannot be alleged as a prior.

Where the tasks are not completed the matter is referred back to the Mention Court as if it was its first listing and all information regarding diversion is removed from the file.

In the event that the Magistrate determines the case is not suitable for diversion, the charges are referred back to the mention court.

From: Magistrates Court of Vic - Specialist Jurisdictions - Diversion Program
BigTrancer :)
 
VelocideX said:
US Visa applications require you to disclose any circumstance where you have been found guilty by a court of an offence, even if no conviction was recorded.

When I got my Visa to live in the USA they only checked back 10 years,
my honesty got me into trouble, and I had to explain why I squirted a guy in the face with a fire extinguisher 11 years before.

Easiest way is to get a police check done yourself to see what they will find out, I think its about $30
 
phase_dancer said:
I agree. I wonder whether this is accross the board though e.g. working in a community based job where background checks are used prior to employment.

My wife cleans the local council office, she just didn't sign the form allowing the employers to get the police check done.

She's been cleaning it for a few years now and didn't hear anything else about it.
 
Bosses check for dark past
Ben Packham, industrial reporter
24may05


BOSSES are trying harder than ever before to discover skeletons in their workers' cupboards.

New figures reveal more than 220,000 police record checks were conducted for Victorian employers last financial year.
This was up by about 4500 per cent on the number of checks a decade ago.

In 1993-94, employers requested criminal record details for 5411 people.

Most of the checks are conducted on job candidates, who must first give their consent.

The figures are included in a report by workers' rights group Jobwatch.

Jobwatch director Zana Bytheway called for tougher regulations on police checks.

Ms Bytheway said details of minor offences were often given out long after they should have been wiped from records.

From: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15385986%5E2862,00.html
From todays paper; the last statement is a worry.

BigTrancer :)
 
I was thinking about buying some testers like this,
here

To see what result I'd be likley to get in a roadside test.
I notice it says THC is detectable for up to 14 hours after 1 use.

Anyone know if these testers would be more off less accurate than what they are using at the moment?
 
Drugged drivers can cheat testing
By Jason Dowling
State Politics
May 29, 2005

In the latest blow to Victoria Police's controversial roadside drug testing, one of the state's top forensic experts has warned that drivers under the influence of drugs could "mask" the test results.

And he said people could switch to drugs not covered by the random roadside saliva tests.

Documents released to The Sunday Age under freedom of information show the director of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine warned in November that "some drivers may try to mask the test through a number of practices".

He detailed some of them in a report to Penny Armytage, secretary of the Department of Justice.

He said they would "inevitably affect the detection rate, yet are outside the control of Government".

"Advice provided to me is that the use of masking agents in oral fluid collections is yet to be properly evaluated by the scientific community," he wrote.

He said the Government might need to review the laws to overcome people attempting to circumvent the testing.

Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) Bob Hastings said there had been no evidence of drivers attempting to "mask test results" or switch to drugs not covered by the tests.

But police would not have a clear picture until the trial was completed.

He said figures showed drug-driving was nearly four times as prevalent as drink-driving, with one in every 67 drivers testing positive for cannabis or methamphetamine-based drugs.

The trial got off to a controversial start when laboratory tests cleared two of the first three drivers who tested positive in the roadside tests. Lawyers for the first person are expected to announce in the next few weeks if they will take legal action. Van driver John De Jong, of Ballarat, tested positive within the first 15 minutes of the tests beginning in December.

Police had invited the media and Mr De Jong's positive saliva test was reported.

He immediately protested his innocence and independent and police laboratory tests nine days later confirmed the absence of drugs.

Mr De Jong said yesterday he had not received an apology from the police.

Documents obtained by The Sunday Age show Mr De Jong's lawyers, Slater and Gordon, wrote to the police traffic alcohol section on December 21 and requested "an immediate apology".

The letter said allegations had been reported in the media "that my client tested positive for drugs" and images of Mr De Jong were published.

"The various publications impute that Mr De Jong was guilty of such offences and does so in a sensationalist way," the letter said. "Furthermore, it could reasonably have been anticipated by Victoria Police that when invited to attend the testing, the media would have reported in such a way."

Mr Hastings sought "urgent legal advice" from the commander of police legal services and replied to Slater and Gordon.

"At no stage did Victoria Police facilitate or promote the identification of any individual involved in the roadside testing and consistently stressed to the media the importance of privacy," he wrote.

A police media unit incident report of December 15 said police organised the media presence.

"Due to intense media interest, media representatives were invited to attend the event at a specific location and time," it said. "Where possible, motorists were advised of the media presence and asked if they had any objections to being filmed. Most motorists indicated they were happy to be filmed."

The report also indicated the media were told that a person, whose name was deleted, had tested positive to methamphetamines as police escorted him to the drug-testing bus.

From The Age
 
MoeBro said:
I suggest not consuming drugs before driving. Make a cab fare an addition to your outing expenses
Or they could increase melbournes public transport system to one similar to sydney who have a 24hr service.

And does anyone know if they are continuing the testin for another year, or stopping it in July as planned?
 
Not having a go at ya, but not only would it save me scouring through this thread to find the answer, but it would have been easier for you to type either yes or no...
 
deano said:
I was thinking about buying some testers like this,
here

To see what result I'd be likley to get in a roadside test.
I notice it says THC is detectable for up to 14 hours after 1 use.

Anyone know if these testers would be more off less accurate than what they are using at the moment?

I've spoken to the doctor at VicRoads who was doing the testing for all of the kits they use, and he basically said that the main advantage of these kits would be to put more dollars into the industry, and give a false sense of confindence.

From the testing they did only 2 kits proved to be even remotely reliable, they are the ones they are using. Apparently these ones won't pick up anything the majority of the time.

For me, I'd prefer to know I'm under by watching/limiting my drug use if I need to drive, so I know I'm clean. The last thing you would want is to test yourself on one of these things, come up negative, then get pulled over and done 10 minutes down the road.

Having said all that, if anyone does buy any of these, I'd be interested to see the results of any testing they do.
 
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