Roadside Drug Testing....

[ayjay]

^I agree with your scenario BT, but it presupposes that people are being charged for MDMA only, which isn't supposed to happen...

Actually - another scenario suggests itself: the roadside test is positive for meth, the lab test says MDMA but not meth, the person is NOT charged, but the event is still recorded as "positive result for (illicit) drugs" in the evaluation.

The whole thing shits me to tears, to be honest. There has been no attempt to determine impairment of driving ability, or to assay the amount of drug on board at the time of testing. I was hoping against hope for some sort of "responsible smoking/speeding" guidelines as there are for alcohol - but instead the saliva testing has been used to add weight to the prohibitionist stick.

 

[Pop Popavich]

There has been no attempt to determine impairment of driving ability, or to assay the amount of drug on board at the time of testing. I was hoping against hope for some sort of "responsible smoking/speeding" guidelines as there are for alcohol - but instead the saliva testing has been used to add weight to the prohibitionist stick.

There was quite a lot of testing that went into determining the level of impairment/quantity of drug on board. The current tests are designed to pick up specific metabolites of the drugs that happen to be broken down around the same time that the drug is no longer causing impairment.

As for establishing a responsible drug use threshhold, it would be seen as a serious conflict to allow a certain level of drugs (like with .05 for BAC) given the Governments stance on drugs, so they have had to find a middle ground by developing tests that allow for that threshold. Essentially these tests are completely ignoring those people that still have drugs in their system, but not at a high enough level to cause impairment. This would be the same as have a breathalyser that gave you a simple pass/fail rather than a quantitive score.

 

[hoptis]

New doubts on drug tests
By CARLY CRAWFORD and IAN HABERFIELD
27 Nov 2005

MOTORISTS high on cannabis could be evading detection under Victoria's drug testing system.

A Swiss study suggests the test fails to detect one in four stoned drivers.
University of Zurich researchers examined a roadside drug test based on the same technology used in Victoria.

The study concluded: "For cannabis, the test was less satisfactory (than other drugs) since 25 per cent of the negative test results were false negatives."

A source said the Victoria Police tests had a cut-off three times higher than the one used in the Swiss study, making cannabis positives even harder to detect.

"At that kind of cut-off, you'd have to have a joint in your mouth to be detected," the source said.

But Victoria Police said it was confident of its testing procedures.

Doubts about the tests emerged when the first man screened in Victoria recorded a false positive result. John De Jong is now suing police.

From Herald Sun

 

[PsYcHoBuNnY]

well i dont think that pl caught should be let off, rather a test and a scale should be devised to determine the penalty... like im sure if u get a BAC of 0.06 you will not get the same panalty as if u blew 0.25

the same principle should be applied to illicit drug percentage, ranging from 0.00 to x.xx

 

[Cowboy Mac]

^^ the government's answer to this has been drugs are illegal and there is no acceptable limit.

 

[hoptis]

Drugged or drunk, you'll get collared

By Jason Dowling, Julia Medew
December 18, 2005

YOU have been warned. Drink or drug-affected drivers can expect a new style of police crackdown this year, with high-tech drug-testing kits and more booze buses than before.

Police were appalled on Friday night when they caught an 80-year-old woman drink-driving. She was one of almost 100 drivers caught.

One in every 73 drivers tested on Friday recorded a result over .05, which was three times higher than this year's average of one in 217 drivers.

Police set up witches hats in Melbourne's streets again last night with all booze buses in action as the drink-driving crackdown intensified. More than 200 motorists have been detected driving with illicit drugs in their system this year.

Superintendent Mick Williams said police were shocked by the increasing number of drivers willing to take risks. "We were still catching people after 5am," he said.

Mr Williams said he was confident the operations, which included booze buses on Footscray Road, Normanby Road and Wellington Parade between 9pm and 7am, had prevented serious crashes.The highest reading recorded by a male was .182, and the highest reading for a female driver was .128.

"We had a P-plate driver in a car full of young friends, and that was his second offence for being over .05," he said. "At the other end of the scale there was an 80-year-old motorist, so there's a whole range of drivers using our roads and they're not heeding the warnings."

Mr Williams said motorists should expect to see similar operations in future.

He said one drug-testing bus operated in addition to the seven booze buses around the the city on Friday night, but police could not report the drug-test results.

Motorists will soon face 12 drug buses instead of one, with police pushing to have all the state's booze buses equipped with drug testing kits.

Mr Williams warned motorists that drug testing units would operate in coming weeks, particularly around the CBD during New Year celebrations.

"The strike rate for the drug bus is exceptionally high," said the Assistant Commissioner Traffic and Transport, Noel Ashby. "We had a recent operation where we tested 22 drivers, and had 11 positives."

The drug unit has an overall strike rate of one positive for every 50 motorists tested.

From The Age

 

[MasterVampire]

fucking hell
i hate drug busses

 

[peaked]

With regards to the amphetamine saliva test, does this extend to every substance that has "amphetamine" in its name? For example, DOB is 2,5-DIMETHOXY-4-BROMOAMPHETAMINE and there are a number of other research chemicals such as TMA or 4-MA, that also seem to have amphetamine as part of them. Sorry if this sounds stupid but I dont really know much at all about chemistry.

Assuming that the test can detect those kinds of substances, if one was detected and then had a lab test done and it was determined to be a RC, what would happen? From what I've read in this thread it appears someone caught under the influence of mdma who had a drug test would then be negated of the charges, since its only focused on meth. Would the same thing happen?

I only ask out of curiosity, the drug bus isnt even in my state yet. Driving under the influence of anything is stupid and reckless, and I dont ask this to know wether one could "evade" the test on certain substances. Actually, I find it somewhat concerning that those under the influence of mdma could be dropped of charges by the lab test. If anything, IMO mdma would affect ones driving moreso than meth.

 

[Pop Popavich]

^^ The result would likely be the same as someone scanned who had MDMA in their system. The similarity of the compunds may well show a false positive for amphetamines, but a lab test would show that it was some other drug.

The current legislation only covers them to test for impairment of Cannibis and Amphetamines, even if the lab tests clearly show you have other drugs in your system, they are not allowed to use this screening process to detect and charge you for that offence.

They are however, working on new tests that screen for a wider range of drug families, and since the last year has been deemed a successful trial of the current method, we may well also see legislation changing to include other drugs detected at the lab stage.

The reason this hasn't been done so far is because there has not been enough data (in the way of directly related road incidents) to show that other drugs have a detrimental effect on driving.

 

[Phonic]

It makes you wonder if they deliberately use testing methods that can't distinguish between recent use and impairment to catch all drug users in general, not just those under the influence of drugs.

That couls also be why they are catching so many poeple with drugs in their system, most of them might not have had any drugs on the day they where driving.

 

[Pop Popavich]

^^ Read the rest of the thread. There is quite a lot of information in there about detection times and what the tests actually detect.

The chances of you being caught the day after using drugs is pretty damn low (unless your consumed an insane amount of whatever drug they detected). In the lab tests they did when trialing the kits, the detection times were around 3-4 hours after a goverment sanctioned dose.

 

[Kandeman]

3-4 hours after a goverment sanctioned dose.

Doh ! Why didn't I get invited to that market research group.

 

[Phonic]

^^ Read the rest of the thread. There is quite a lot of information in there about detection times and what the tests actually detect.

The chances of you being caught the day after using drugs is pretty damn low (unless your consumed an insane amount of whatever drug they detected). In the lab tests they did when trialing the kits, the detection times were around 3-4 hours after a goverment sanctioned dose.

I have read the whole thread and understand what you are saying, I just didn't convey what I wanted to say the best (tired after long day at work).

What I ment to say it, how sure can we be they are following correct testing procedures? Are these detection times really accurate, or a conservative average that they published?

All I am saying is they could be using this as a tool to catch drug users in general

 

[hoptis]

New weapon in road toll blitz
By Jesse Hogan
December 20, 2005 - 2:06PM

Police hope a new fleet of "devil yellow" highway patrol cars will help them reduce the traditionally hefty Christmas holiday road toll.

Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) Noel Ashby today launched the fleet of 20 Special Mobile Anti-Road Toll cars, the customised Holden SS Commodores to be deployed across the state.

"This time of year is, without doubt, the highest time of risk for Victorians and the Victorian community," he said.

"The operation across Victoria will be comprehensive and bigger than anything that's preceded it."

Mr Ashby said the visibility of police was the key factor in ensuring drivers slow down. He expects the brightly-coloured fleet will do that more effectively than the previous electric blue-coloured cars.

"The message for us is about people, and keeping people healthy and alive for their families."

The road toll blitz will target speed, drink-driving and drug-driving, as well as fatigue and failure to use seatbelts.

Each of the 20 cars will be equipped to test drivers for alcohol and illicit drugs.

Two recent booze bus operations in the city caught 154 drivers over .05, while Victoria Police's drug testing program has averaged four positive tests for every 10 drivers.

But Mr Ashby said the drug testing figure was skewed because police targeted "high-risk" areas.

"For example, we would not be setting one up in Whitehorse Road, Mont Albert, at the moment because we wouldn't get the same level (of positive tests)."

The Christmas holiday road toll for Victoria peaked at 20 for the 2002/03 New Year-period, but fell to 17 in 2003/04 and 13 last year — a trend Mr Ashby hopes will continue.

"Our road toll has declined over the past two years and we are urging all Victorians to work with us to continue this decline this summer."

The 13-day period officially begins at 12.01am on Friday and finishes at midnight on Friday, January 6.

The overall road toll for 2005 is at 332, one more than this time last year.

The Age

Police are admitting that the results they have for drug driving are skewed by their targetting of certain areas.

Also there's no indication of how they plan to perform the second and third tests from these SS Commodores they now have.

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

Originally Posted by ayjay
I was hoping against hope for some sort of "responsible smoking/speeding" guidelines as there are for alcohol - but instead the saliva testing has been used to add weight to the prohibitionist stick

I don't know where you get the idea of there being education provided by the government on responsible guidlines with alcohol and driving. I find the lack of information in terms of drinking and driving rather annoying. On the one hand the government/RTA educates on this is what is a "standard drink" is and how many roughly you can have per hour to stay under the limit for an average male/female but fails to provide information about on roughtly when it is safe to drive after you are intoxicated. I don't feel they don't give clear enough information to the pulic on the rate of alcohol metabolism and how individuals can asses if they are likely to be under the legal limit X amount of hours after they have been drinking.

Only in the last year or two after some big media articles was there public attention to the fact that after a heavy night on alcholol you may be still over the legal limit to drive to work the next morning. I feel this is very poor work in the part of the government and I think they have again avoided there role in taking reponisbility especially since they withdrew the sale of personal breathtesters at RTA's (IMO this was not out of any sence of duty to the public becuase of the inaccuraties in the personal breath testers but I think rather just to cover there arse from possible litigation. Bastards!). I am frustrated by the governments attitude to law enforsement that is unbudging and not leanient when they do even not give clear guidelines as to how to stay within those laws.

 

[Sacred_cow]

I have a really, really, stupid question to ask, my apoligies in advance.

On NYE and NYD I plan to be travelling to and from certain events by taxi so as to avoid any accidents or run ins with drug busses.

The question I would like answered is if the driver of said taxi was stopped for a roadside drug test, and the test results were negative, would the police be able to ask me as a passenger to step out of the vehicle and submit to a search?

I ask this as I will most likely be wearing phatties (I know don't flame me) and looking somewhat like a raver. From my appearence the police would probably be able to surmise that I may be in possesion of contraband. Would their suspicions give them the legal grounds to perform such a search?

 

[Cowboy Mac]

I believe public transport is running all night NYE and is free, there should be no excuses.

 

[hoptis]

I ask this as I will most likely be wearing phatties (I know don't flame me) and looking somewhat like a raver. From my appearence the police would probably be able to surmise that I may be in possesion of contraband. Would their suspicions give them the legal grounds to perform such a search?

There was an excellent thread recently discussing just what constituted reasonable suspicion, the information in this thread applies regardless of which state you are in.

Perth - YOUR RIGHTS REGARDING SEARCHES

I'd suggest you give it a browse.

Regardless, it would be extremely unlikely for the police to want to search a passenger in a taxi just for wearing phat pants, especially at a busy time like NYE/NYD and especially at a drug bus setup where your driver has returned negative for drug intoxication.

You are much more likely to be busted drug driving this New Years than you are to be busted in possession while going through a drug bus... please, take the cab (just remember to book/call ahead early for one!)

 

[Sacred_cow]

Thankyou Hoptis, that's an interesting read!

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

Originally posted by Cowboy Mac I believe public transport is running all night NYE and is free, there should be no excuses.

I don't know how things are in Melbourne but unless things have changed in Sydney in the last while there could be sniffer dogs patrolling the train system at any time.