Roadside Drug Testing....

[brad483]

Speed

Just wondering how long speed stays in your system for?

 

[waspman⌐]

sorry i dont have a source i just cant be bothered but according to what the cops and or politicians are saying, its about 24 hours, although this varies according to dose etc...

BigTrancer: I dont think that the radio stations will tell people where the busses are. AFAIK they have never ever said where the RBTs are so i doubt they would start with the drug busses. I think its a bit of a morality thing, some people in the community would be outraged knowing that there could be people out there "getting away with" driving with drugs in their system. same for drink driving.

 

[phase_dancer]

Meth has a long half life, so for a healthy subject, complete elimination of meth and it's metabolites usually takes ~ 5-7 days. However, several factors can affect this.

 

[hoptis]

Drug test contradicts police
By Jamie Berry
December 22, 2004

The man identified as the first person in the world to have returned a positive drug-driving test said there was something "badly wrong" with the police test after independent testing contradicted official results.

Van driver John De Jong, 39, of Ballarat, tested positive for methamphetamines during an initial police test in Yarraville on December 13. He denied ever taking the substance.

A second, more sophisticated test conducted in a police drug bus detected marijuana. He told them he had used "some marijuana" four weeks earlier but police said he must have had it within the previous two hours.

But the results of the second test have been questioned after testing by an independent pathologist released yesterday showed there was no cannabis in Mr De Jong's system.

"I knew my test result would have to come back negative. I knew that; I've said that right through," Mr De Jong said last night. "I'm happy to know that my results are negative, but I need to hear that from the police as well. It's still not closed."

Mr De Jong's lawyer, Katalin Blond of Slater and Gordon, said that results received from Mayne Health yesterday produced a negative result for marijuana and that the drug-driving testing by police was "perhaps unreliable".

"They need to establish, beyond all reasonable doubt, that he's guilty . . . the court is put in a position where it's faced with two contradictory test results," she said.

"It would be almost impossible for them to be satisfied beyond all reasonable doubt."

Ms Blond also requested a check for methamphetamine but was told the second saliva sample was not large enough to test. Mr De Jong's lawyers were not given the first sample.

Mr De Jong's sample was sent to Mayne Health for independent testing last week and he received the results yesterday, "which is quicker than the police results", Ms Blond said.

"It's really huge for him," she said. "He's just been through the wringer and this just goes part of the way to confirming what he's said all along. Mr De Jong absolutely disputes the claims published over the past eight days and maintains that the testing procedure is flawed."

A Victoria Police spokeswoman would not comment on the independent testing of Mr De Jong's sample. "He will be notified in due course when the results are through of what the results were of the police tests," she said.

Mr De Jong said he was still considering suing for defamation after being widely identified as the world's first driver to return a positive roadside drug test.

"There's something badly wrong with their testing and before they can continue this program they've got to sort out the problems," he said.

"It's not right to do what they're doing to people, what they've done to me. I don't want to see anyone else go through this."

From The Age

 

[BigTrancer]

Hmm... well, I guess that's why they call it a 'false positive' result. Too bad for them their first false positive occurred in the first 15 mins of testing, and a second false positive on the preliminary saliva tester occurred in the same day. More statistics required to give a reasonable assessment of the technology, obviously, but it's a shaky start.

VOTE: Do you think the drug-driving tests should be scrapped?

http://theage.com.au/polls/form.html

Current tally: 192 Votes @ 10.30am -- 68% Yes, 32% No.

BigTrancer

 

[Bent]

Police clear driver

 

[Fry-d-]

Police clear driver of drug use
December 22, 2004 - 11:54AM

A Melbourne man who initially tested positive to Australia's first roadside drug test has been cleared by police.

John De Jong, who drives a van and a small truck for a Melbourne company, protested his innocence after returning two positive tests for drugs at a random roadside test in Melbourne's inner west last week.

Police laboratory analysis of Mr De Jong's saliva sample today revealed the initial test results were wrong.

A police spokeswoman said Mr De Jong had tested negative to cannabis and he would not be charged.

Mr De Jong, a 39-year-old father of two, was devastated last week when his image was captured by waiting press photographers and cameramen called by police to witness the roadside test.

He said his family had been shocked when they saw him on the television news.

Police told him the tests, which detect THC - the active component in marijuana - and methamphetamine, or speed, in saliva, showed he had smoked marijuana two hours beforehand, he said.

Mr De Jong, who admits using marijuana two or three times a year, said he had not smoked the drug for a month.

His lawyers today said independent laboratory tests revealed he had not been driving under the influence of cannabis.

Assistant Commissioner for Traffic Bob Hastings defended the roadside testing process, saying it had undergone rigorous assessment.

"The evidence indicated that these devices supported what they were supposed to do and a decision was made to pilot this over 12 months and we acknowledge there will be fine tuning in the way we do it on the side of the road," he said.

The drug bus, which was continuing to operate, was deterring motorists from driving while under the influence of drugs, he said.

I've quoted the article Bent linked above, I think this is significant enough for a place in this thread

For the first case, the one that the police wanted to use as an example of the technology this will surely leave a few people red faced.

 

[fcuking_in_heaven]

Can anyone say 'precedent'.

 

[Bent]

If a few more of these false positives start to come through and get some decent media attention, and if a few more people are inconvenienced by false postives and the 5+ minute waits, I think the Police/Government will have to do something - afterall this is just a trial isn't it?

 

[BlueScorpion]

Drug Driving - Would You?

Now that there is a Drug Bus out - would you be detered from driving home from an event?

 

[hoptis]

The Herald Sun uses stronger language:

Victoria Police's world-first roadside drug testing system is in tatters

...in it's article on this news...

Accused 'drug-driver' cleared
By Norrie Ross and wires
December 22, 2004

A DRIVER picked up under ground-breaking roadside drug testing in Melbourne last week is demanding an apology after police tests today confirmed his innocence.

Victoria Police's world-first roadside drug testing system is in tatters after the man identified as the first in the world to return a positive drug test at a roadside drug bus was cleared - first by an independent laboratory and now by police.

Van driver John De Jong protested his innocence from the moment he was paraded by police last week.

The Herald Sun, which first raised doubts about the accuracy of the roadside drug testing experiment, learned last night that a test described as "gold standard" failed to find any trace of drugs in Mr De Jong's saliva sample.

Today, Victoria Police told Mr De Jong their own tests had confirmed he was innocent.

The drug bus was trumpeted by the Bracks Government as a big step in the fight against drug driving.

Victoria Police have vowed to continue the program and are not offering Mr De Jong an apology for the stress his family has endured.

Mr De Jong said he was shocked the police were refusing to say sorry.

"They put me in front of the media from the word go, and said I had tested positive to amphetamines and cannabis," he said.

"Their tests and my tests show that not to be true and they are not even willing to apologise - I just think that is wrong."

Mr De Jong's wife Kay said the family had been aware of people in Ballarat talking about them, and said her husband deserved an apology.

Their 13-year-old daughter Belinda broke down as she told of the pressure on the family.

"We are very relieved that all this has come out now, that everyone should know now that my dad is an innocent person," Belinda said.

Mr De Jong said he was considering legal action against police.

Mr De Jong's nightmare began when he volunteered to be tested by the new drug bus in a Yarraville street.

He was shocked when he first tested positive to amphetamines. A second test came up positive to cannabis and it is the second test that forms the basis of any charge.

Mr De Jong was warned that he would be charged if the third police lab test was positive.

"This has been a nightmare for me and my family," Mr De Jong said.

"My emotions have been all over the place. It's something I would not wish on anybody else."

Mr De Jong, who paid hundreds of dollars for the independent test, admitted he smoked cannabis a month before the police roadside check.

But said he would never drive under the influence of drugs.

Lawyer Katalin Blond, of Slater & Gordon, said Mr De Jong wanted his life to get back to normal.

"We really want (Victoria Police) to acknowledge that the system is flawed and certainly their way of handling it, in using him as the poster boy for it, was totally inappropriate," Ms Blond said.

Slater and Gordon was contacted by several laboratories after the publicity about Mr De Jong's case, she said.

"It seems to be accepted within drug testing circles that saliva testing is simply not reliable enough.

"They are inaccurate and show false positives."

Ms Blond said Mr De Jong was a normal bloke just going to work and he did not deserve to have gone through the ordeal.

"It is a giant stuff-up at his expense," she said.

"And because of this there is a risk the whole drug-testing system has been discredited. The police asked for the publicity and if they were going to do that, you would have thought that they would ensure the thing worked."

A spokeswoman for Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said police were taking a zero tolerance approach.

"Zero tolerance means that the test they are using is for an indication of drugs. And then it's taken off for laboratory testing."

She said the technology was tested by Swinburne University and passed all their standards.

From Herald Sun and wires

From News.com.au

 

[syntech]

interesting to see the differences in terminology between the two newspapers......

i heard on JJJ news that any positives from the trials will not lead to convictions. but does that mean that if you do get a positive reading, you will have to push to get it cleared like John De Jong?

and i kind of tuned out but i think i heard that theyre not starting the trials again til march. dont quote me on this cos i wasnt listening properly, but it may be they've held them back again until the technology is a bit better......

as for preventing ppl from driving on drugs for the fear of getting caught.....its a lot scarier than getting caught drunk driving, cos the consequences can be more severe. wouldnt any cop who's just caught someone with meth in their system want to search their car???

 

[notneo]

No? How else would you get home? Catch a bus or train there and back and risk getting searched on the way both times?

 

[Courage]

Never drive or drive with someone on X - screw the bus (drug) use common sense.

 

[Sashi]

I know it's stupid and irresponsible, but my friends and I usually drive home after the bush raves we go to, pretty strung out but not off our heads or anything. There just aren't any other options.

But yes, if their was public transport, we'd use it.

 

[beech]

Not sure where your from notneo but here in Melbourne the police do not patrol trains and just randomly search people for drugs. If I go to any large event in Melbourne I catch train in and never once have I been searched. Remember the police must have reasonable cause to search you. Also considering how many people would be on the train do you seriously think they are going to hold up the train and search everyone on their way off. Don't hide behind piss weak excuses for drug driving.


Beech out

 

[Courage]

^^ In melb - cops are usually pretty cruisey with me.

I was helping a guy after he got the shit kicked out of him at flinders. (ambo's n all) - I stayed and made sure he was ok.

Pigs new I was peaking hard even joked about it, but never gave me any greif

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

ANOTHER DRIVER WITH CONTRADICTORY RESULTS!!!

Police drug testing 'fiasco' grows
December 22, 2004 - 5:38PM
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/12/22/1103391810977.html

Victoria's world first roadside drug-testing system was in a shambles today after police revealed two of the first three drivers to test positive had been cleared after laboratory analysis of their samples.

Victoria Police released the results of the laboratory tests following demands for an apology and threats of legal action from van driver John De Jong, who tested positive for drugs at a highly-publicised launch of the system last week.

Private tests supported Mr De Jong's claims of innocence and subsequent police laboratory tests confirmed he was drug-free.

In a short statement issued today, Victoria Police admitted that only one of the first three laboratory tests conducted had tested positive for drugs.

Laboratory testing is the final step towards conclusive evidence for prosecution under the drug driving laws.

In the first nine days of testing, 283 drivers had provided saliva samples with only three indicating a positive result.

Those three were duly sent for further testing.

But the growing controversy over the accuracy of the tests has failed to convince Premier Steve Bracks to suspend them.

With NSW and Tasmania also planning to introduce roadside drug testing in coming months, the Victorian experience is being watched closely by other states.

Mr De Jong, of Ballarat, tested positive to amphetamines and cannabis when he was pulled over in his work van on December 13.

The 39-year-old father of two was devastated when his image was captured by waiting press photographers and cameramen assembled by police to witness the first tests.

Mr De Jong maintained his innocence and said he had last smoked cannabis four weeks before he was tested.

He had his blood sample tested at an independent laboratory, with the results showing no traces of drugs.

Victoria Police vowed to continue the program and are not offering Mr De Jong an apology for the stress his family has endured.

''They put me in front of the media from the word go, and said I had tested positive to amphetamines and cannabis,'' Mr De Jong said.

''Their tests and my tests show that not to be true and they are not even willing to apologise - I just think that is wrong.''

Mr De Jong's wife Kay said the family had been aware of people in Ballarat talking about them, and her husband deserved an apology.

Their 13-year-old daughter Belinda broke down as she told of the pressure on the family.

''We are very relieved that all this has come out now, that everyone should know now that my dad is an innocent person,'' Belinda said.

''It has been very hard on us all.''

Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner for traffic Bob Hastings defended the roadside testing process, saying it had undergone rigorous assessment.

The drug bus, which was continuing to operate, was deterring motorists from driving while under the influence of drugs, he said.

''A decision was made to pilot this over 12 months and we acknowledge there will be fine tuning in the way we do it on the side of the road,'' he said.

Mr Hastings said there was no need for police to apologise because they had complied with the law all along.

Mr Bracks said he had confidence in the police drug tests and rejected suggestions that they should be suspended.

He said the controversy over the roadside drug testing was no different to the poor initial public reaction to compulsory seat belts and alcohol breath tests.

''We have a fail-safe system which means before charges are laid there will be a conclusive laboratory test that is undertaken,'' he said.

''That is a good system, and that will ensure that people's rights are protected as well as people on the road, their rights are protected to safety and security and to reduce the number of deaths on our roads.''

Opposition police spokesman Kim Wells said the early test results had been a fiasco and the scheme should be suspended.

''This is simply not working and it needs to be reviewed and retested because Victorians simply will not have confidence in drug testing because of today's revelations,'' he said.

- AAP

 

[Paca]

i think i heard that theyre not starting the trials again til march.

syntech, they are not putting a holt on the drug bus at all; that might have been when the NSW tests were starting. I don't know for sure when the NSW ones are starting, but I do know they are starting in the new year.

i heard on JJJ news that any positives from the trials will not lead to convictions.

I think it was the NSW ones that they weren't pressing charges with for the first year, but don't quote me on that one, I am not positive.

They covered this story quite a bit in the media today, it was headlining most news shows, and was even covered by today tonite. Most news shows put about 5 minutes into it too, so atleast they didn't just brush over the whole subject.

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

Curioser & Curioser

UK launches drug driving tests
From correspondents in London
22dec04
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11764966%5E1702,00.html

BRITISH police can now test people they suspect of driving under the influence of drugs with roadside tasks such as standing on one leg.

Drivers could also be checked for dilated pupils or asked to estimate how long it takes for 30 seconds to pass, Britain's Department for Transport said.

"Drug driving puts lives at danger and is as irresponsible as drink driving. Drivers should never get behind the wheel when they're unfit to drive," said Road Safety Minister David Jamieson.

The Department said it did not have any estimates on the number of deaths caused by drugged driving but it hoped the new tests would cut road accidents.

As for those who refused to take breath tests when suspected of drink driving, drivers suspected of using drugs at the wheel will be committing an offence if they refuse to take part in the new tests.

Until today, drivers had the right to refuse drug tests.

The new law covers illegal drugs but also medicines available over the counter and on prescription if they make drivers unfit to be at the wheel.

Those caught driving under the influence of drugs face a maximum £5000 ($12,600) fine and losing their licence for a year.

They can also face up to six months in prison