RCs Retiring from MDxx, Cocaine, and 4MMC - Replacement Drugs?

[pharma-sutra]

After a six month stint from using MDMA, my experience last weekend has reaffirmed my decision to steer away from using again. I'm in a place where I should be avoiding full-blown experiences with any "hard" substances. This includes my all-time favorite 4MMC too. Alternatives such as methylone and various fluoro-amphetamines seem like a viable replacement.

In comparison, M1 has approx. 3x lower affinity for serotonin transport than MDMA. IME, I don't get severely depressed for a week like I do on MDMA. IMO it feels very benign and easy on the body (mentally and physically). It's more clear-headed and more fitted for club nights and socializing in party settings.

Personally, I don't like to drink/binge alcohol. A couple of drinks to get buzzed is alright, but getting lit on alcohol just isn't my thing. Mainly because genetically speaking, I lack the stomach enzymes to break down alcohol properly and thus more damaging to my liver and body than your average joe. Also because I hate being "dumbed-down" while being intoxicated. You know, the whole slurred speech, immobility, and making irrational decisions. I find tampering with my cognitive abilities often interferes with my sociability too. So every now and then, cocaine might be in the mix. (yes I'm well aware of the high risks and that is why it isn't a sustainable option either)

My main interest lies in replacing other hard stimulants that i use recreationally for social settings. I want to retire from mdma, 4mmc, and cocaine. looking for something more mundane and not as hard on the body, but at the same time act as a social lubricant and motivator. Given these circumstances, I think maybe limiting my recreational stimulant use with methylone and some of these fluoro-amphetamines seems like a sound choice (3-fa, 4-fa, 2-fma ; I've read/heard promising experiences, but unsure as to which one would be most suitable, most researched, and impend the least health-risks).
Of-course, these substances would be used alternatively and probably indulged only on a twice per month basis. Anyone care to pitch in with their opinions and advice?

 

[pharma-sutra]

^ bump.

not sure if im violating any rules here...hopefully not. my intent isn't to ask for drug suggestions merely to get "high" off of ...but more akin to tapering off my recreational habit with safer substances. although i can see it might be a contradiction, as fluorine-substituted amphetamine derivatives are still considered fairly untested waters. however, given that my d-amp (dexedrine) rx for adult ADD has been switched to lisdexamfetamine (vyvanse)... my stimulant supply has been greatly limited, leaving absolutely no space for recreational use. my thoughts are replacing mdma , 4mmc use --> 4-fa or methylone. for classical stims: d-amp, cocaine i want to switch to 3-fa (and/or maybe 2-fma.

 

[sekio]

fluorine-substituted amphetamine derivatives are still considered fairly untested waters.

They've been around for a couple years now.

Realistically, is seems unlikely to "taper" recreational use of amphetamines. The long and short is, the fluoroamphetamines and friends are pretty much just as recreational as MDMA and mephedrone are. They have the same risks, roughly similar side effect profiles, and share the neurotoxic effects in overdose.

The one other important thing to remember is that the commerical fluoroamphetamines are racemic, I think. So do be aware when you consider using, e.g. 2-FMA, that you are essentially considering using racemic methamphetamine. (The 2-fluoro amphetamines are very similar to their "parents." 4-fluoroamphetamines are closer to MDMA-type drugs. And the 3-fluoro are in the middle.)

If you start using other amphetamine derivatives on the regular, you will also find your Vyvanase loses efficacy. They are all cross tolerant.

 

[pharma-sutra]

^ in regards to 2-fma, i wouldn't say on the regular. i'd probably be using them on an as needed basis. mostly just to get the spirits up to pull my shit together.

mind i add that vyvanse is by far the best psychostimulant medication that has helped with my social anxiety and adult add. but the drug is fairly expensive and my insurance doesn't cover it.

i am aware of the fact that these amp derivatives have been around for a couple yrs now, but the toxic effects on human body is still a bit hazy (aside form anecdotal reports). and while it may feel "cleaner" or "smoother" with no comedown, doesn't necessarily mean they're not more neurotoxic.

maybe going into CBT might be the best bet for my anxiety issues...and probably engage on a stringent nootropic regimen to help with my attention deficit problems (which ultimately affects my motivational levels). tbh, im just at a point in my life where im seriously dissatisfied with current progress and everything that has going for me. shit professional life, shit social life, and very shit sex life... anyways, sorry for the rant. went off tangent there. although i may have answered my own question.

however, i'd like to still enjoy myself at concerts/shows from time to time. needless to say, ive had the best times of my life at music events. with that in mind, will using methylone be a suitable choice if i want to ween off of mdma? (same goes for 4-fa and 3-fa to knock off 4mmc and cocaine, but i see that you have subtly advised against it given that they have similar profiles as the latter)

*sorry..was also wondering if any mods mind changing the title of the thread to "Retiring from MDxx, Cocaine, and 4MMC". Seems more appropriate.

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

I don't see how one "weens" off MDMA, However coke and 4MMC I know people get really depressed when they stop those. I've used the same chems you have and in the end they leave you tired and depressed. The only one recently I used weekly was 2-FMA and it was great for awhile. I got house work done, and my RL work done. However it became a morning habit. And as sekio mentioned it's very much like it's parent, but you can use it more often which makes you think it's safe or okay. In the end IMHO, it's going to have similar side effects in the long run to real meth. Have you have ever tried finding a good energy drink? I've found the vitamin stores have some really potent ones you won't find at the local corner store. I used to drink those, but have since been able to get the stimulating and social effects from drinking a rockstar.

If you can, limit your MDMA usage for concerts only. I personally have found that's my favorite environment and I don't go often enough to make MDMA a habit.

Good luck. You can still live a fun life and party too, you just may need to step it back.

 

[pharma-sutra]

^ legitimate advice. and i worded it wrong...maybe not "ween" off from mdma use, but merely replace it with m1 for the same recreational purposes (concerts). IMO, mdma just isn't worth the price to pay afterwards (even with just standard dose of 120mg with no redosing). i get severely depressed from it. but you might say 4mmc probably induces a much harsher crash/comedown. that isn't quite true though...IME somehow 4mmc can provoke a sudden onset of a sense of dread and mood change when the substance starts to wear off, but that depressed feeling only lasts for at most 3-4 hours then it's back to baseline. mdma on the other hand gives me an afterglow the day after ingestion, but when day 3 and day 4 approaches...i feel like hell!

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

Do you take pills or powder and if it's pills do you check the ecstasydata.org? I kind of sense you're from the UK where MDMA is very easy to get and clubbing is much more popular than in the US. Or maybe you simply see a lot more live music than I ;-).

Good MDMA shouldn't leave you feeling as shitty as you seem to feel from it. I never crashed off pure MDMA, just pressed pills. Also IMO if you switched to methylone I think you would use more of the substance than MDMA. Have you thought of just taking a break? Take a few months off and let your brain and body recover. You may lose interest altogether and never go back; but if you do I think you will have a better time. Habits suck (I have many).

I used stims for awhile too, it's not an easy habit to give up. Somehow 32oz of rockstar in the AM doses the trick.

 

[sekio]

Plain caffeine pills (either 100 or 200mg) are generally more cost-effective and less of a sugary, awful-tasting, alkaloidal mess that energy drinks are, and are an excellent "general purpose" stimulant and mood elevator for some people.

Another, perhaps more sophisticated way of administering caffeine, are the age old traditions of coffee and tea. They are lovely social lubricants and motivators and when properly prepared can be truly beautiful sensory experiences. (Don't tell me you don't like coffee because you tried a Starbucks latte and didn't like it. That's like drinking ditch water and complaining that H2O is awful.) Also they are less hard on the body than amphetamine and can be consumed in public with no real worry.

If you notice that MDMA's comedown kicks in more towards the days following, perhaps it could be resolved with a vitamin rich high-protien diet before & after MDMA, to ensure your body can regenerate the monoamines it needs.

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

^^ I forgot to mention vitamins. OP do you take daily vitamins? I agree with sekio that your issues could be resolved with a better diet and regular vitamin intake. Let's face, the drugs you were using are not good for the body on a regular basis (if at all). I just started a new vitamin routine and have tapered back my use certain substances. 5-HTP could be of help to you and Milk Thistle will help clean your liver. As a rabid drinker I make Milk Thistle a daily thing.

And YEA coffee will do wonders. I just had a cup and skipped the Rockstar.

 

[Toz]

In my experience, pure dextroamphetamine (not racemic street speed mixed with other crap) doesn't carry much harder physical side effects or crash than the fluoro substituted amphetamines. I'd prefer it to the fluoro ones.

If I had to pick one fluoro substitued amphetamine, I'd pick 2-FA. It's the most similiar to dextroamphetamine. But then I'd only pick it if I had no dextroamphetamine available.

The fluoro substitued amphetamines don't necessary feel easier on the body, I think most of them feel similar in side effects to normal dextroamphetamine (except the 4-X ones they are more closer to MDMA). It's all about dosage and if you redose or not.