Regional Heroin Discussion v14: What's the point?

[strungout2010]

The worst rattle I ever did was in Chelmsford jail (mid 90's) I'd been taking 60 mil of jollop for a couple of years and smoking between a gram and a teenth of gear a day.
The only meds igot was 2 DF's am/pm.
It was by far the worst fucking experience of my life I honestly wanted to die, the rattle went on for weeks and weeks and FUCKING WEEKS. I was climbing the Walls , shiting , puking up bile and crying. By the 3rd week I was hitting my head against the wall in a attempt to knock myself out.
I went to court beginning of the 4th week and I believe it was only the state I was in and my briefs insistance I needed medical help that the prison service couldn't provide, that got me bail.
I was in such a bad way I was gagging trying to smoke the gear my pal had brought to the courthouse.

I don't mind posting about it now Kats weighed off + they give you jollop now anyway , but that little turn out scared the fuck out of me , and I hav'nt put myself in the position where it could happen again since.

 

[endlessnameless]

@Becoming Julie: Thanks, somehow that made me feel better. Briefly, but better for a time none the less.

I suppose it wouldn't be as bad if I knew it would only last three days, but it just doesnt with me. My rattle seems to go on for at least 5-7 days, after which the intensity lessens and then I have a good 5-7 weeks of feeling freezing, severe depression and months of disturbed sleep. But thats what I get. Such is the price of over indulgence; of my utter hedonism.

I cant find anyone with any methadone, so I'll just have to push on through the WD's. If I had the money I'd have the odd bag during the week to keep the WD's at bay and then put an order in for methadone on Friday, but I don't - I owe out 100euros for tomorrow and I'm short on that as it is. Its very tempting to spend that 45e lying by my bedside table and either hit the streets for methadone or buy a bag and just knock the phone off for a couple of days until I work something out. But that'd be foolish. I'd rather rattle than be flooded with calls requesting due cash.

I'm very glad of one thing though: that I want to quit.

 

[ructions]

Ugh Strungout that sounds harsh! & been in jail would make the whole thing 1000000% worse!!! all of us have our own nightmarish stories of W.D's, its always such a dark & painful experience! My whole body aches, i'd be in tears with pain, unable to speak, burning hot then icy cold, & then all the dark thoughts in my head! Every bad thing that you have ever seen or done keeps playing on repeat in your head over & over again! I cry a lot when i W.D. i always feel so bloody upset & hopeless. Its not worth it, thats why we all keep using coz we afraid of the W.D's.........

 

[Crankinit]

@Becoming Julie: Thanks, somehow that made me feel better. Briefly, but better for a time none the less.

I suppose it wouldn't be as bad if I knew it would only last three days, but it just doesnt with me. My rattle seems to go on for at least 5-7 days, after which the intensity lessens and then I have a good 5-7 weeks of feeling freezing, severe depression and months of disturbed sleep. But thats what I get. Such is the price of over indulgence; of my utter hedonism.

I cant find anyone with any methadone, so I'll just have to push on through the WD's. If I had the money I'd have the odd bag during the week to keep the WD's at bay and then put an order in for methadone on Friday, but I don't - I owe out 100euros for tomorrow and I'm short on that as it is. Its very tempting to spend that 45e lying by my bedside table and either hit the streets for methadone or buy a bag and just knock the phone off for a couple of days until I work something out. But that'd be foolish. I'd rather rattle than be flooded with calls requesting due cash.

I'm very glad of one thing though: that I want to quit.

Have you thought about codeine? I'm fairly sure it's OTC in Ireland, and since it sounds like you're in for a fairly light withdrawal it should help you taper quite nicely. I used to taper off my IV oxy binges with codeine all the time and it works wonderfully as long as you don't have a monster tolerance (even mine was pretty big but it still worked).

 

[trip2themoon]

I just finished Skagboys (the prequel to Trainspotting) and there were bits that almost had me in tears. Not due to any sadness in the story but because of all the talk of their wonderful highs from early 80s kit and the fact that each day on it looks more and more likely that I'll never get to experience that kind of euphoria again...

Not a good idea to read a book about heroin use when you are choking for decent kit but anyone who enjoyed Trainspotting will like it.

 

[endlessnameless]

Have you thought about codeine? I'm fairly sure it's OTC in Ireland, and since it sounds like you're in for a fairly light withdrawal it should help you taper quite nicely. I used to taper off my IV oxy binges with codeine all the time and it works wonderfully as long as you don't have a monster tolerance (even mine was pretty big but it still worked).

Yes indeed I've been thinking very strongly about codeine, which is what I've often used in the past when finances didn't allow me to indulge again. Its certainly available OTC in Ireland alright, and I've always been extremely thankful for that.

I was very fortunate to have access to a couple of boxes of 30/500mg Kpack and 30/500mg Tylex not to long ago with which I would perform a CWE upon; alas they're long gone now. There were prescription only, and I think the highest amount available OTC is 8/365mgs codeine.

The codeine never quite cut it - I always went straight back to using as soon as pay day came around. Then again, I never really wanted to get off the gear at the time. I was miserable, and heroin quelled the pain.

So in terms of either a 3-5 day methadone taper vs a 10-14 day CWE codeine taper - which would be better, do you think? I know I'm going to have to use an entire box of 8mg codeine tabs for my daily CWE...that'll cost a bit, but still - no where near how much my current heroin habit is costing me. The habit is still only a bag a day - rarely two - costing 100-120 a week. Not a huge amount, but I only have 180 to live off a week as it is.

 

[cherrycolouredfunk]

My friend was telling me the other day that a study found that Heroin addicts withdrawal symptoms are pretty much none existent when the person has money in their pocket, or knows that there is some coming to them ie giro day etc!

For me a lot of Withdrawal symptoms are psychological. The other day I'd forgotten to take my meth, as I'd had a bag and was held by that, but as soon as I realised i'd missed meth my brain started to kick in with the symptoms and I started sweating and feeling strung out. Addiction is a powerful and strange thing.

 

[ructions]

My friend was telling me the other day that a study found that Heroin addicts withdrawal symptoms are pretty much none existent when the person has money in their pocket, or knows that there is some coming to them ie giro day etc!
QUOTE]


There is no doubt that W.D's are psychological as well as physical, but they are by no means completely psychological if you are physically addicted to opiates, anyone who is physically addicted will know this only too well!!! It wouldn't matter if i had a million €uro in my pocket if i was without my methadone or heroin for more the 24hours i would have very strong physical withdrawals.

I'd love to see the Doctors or who ever did that study going through proper W.D's & when they are crying out & begging for help i'd hand them 20 quid & tell them to put it in their pocket so that they feel better! & then i'd tell them its all in their head!

But yes it is true, some mild W.D's can be a trick of the mind, the same thing that happens to you Cherry with your methadone happens to me too. I take my methadone at 8pm every day, but on a day when i'm late home & i realize that its gone 8pm i start to panic & i feel mild W.D's starting, & then i think that if i hadn't seen the time then i would probably be ok! But these mild W.D's are nothing compared to how you feel when your body goes through opiate withdrawal!

Heroin/opiate withdrawal is a very real thing, i think who ever did that study is way off & i'm glad that they are not treating me.......

 

[SteveSircull]

I just finished Skagboys (the prequel to Trainspotting) and there were bits that almost had me in tears. Not due to any sadness in the story but because of all the talk of their wonderful highs from early 80s kit and the fact that each day on it looks more and more likely that I'll never get to experience that kind of euphoria again...

Not a good idea to read a book about heroin use when you are choking for decent kit but anyone who enjoyed Trainspotting will like it.

Im off to Crete in a fortnight and im saving my copy for then. Just finished re - reading t/s, porno and glue in preperation

@Hooks - Your Darn Tootin!

 

[endlessnameless]

Oh my sweet fuck that was a horrible experience of a night. I did manage to get some sleep at least; 4/5 hours at best I think. Dry cough, something like 8 sneezes at a time, streaming eyes, freezing, sweating, nausea...you know the drill. I have it all. Lord help me. Please.

The doctor will be calling about his cash this afternoon - it'll take all the strength in the world not to take a touch of medicine from him. Thats if he'd be even willing to front it, as I've only 80% of the bill at hand today. I've been too much of a constant reliable customer over the last year and a bit for him to even moan about a mere 20, but I do hate to let him down on cash as he is a nice bloke. Who wouldnt be when they're collecting a wad of 20's each and every week.

Dog rough.

 

[cazamac]

endless hats off to ye if ye can pay your bill and not score when your so rough,l have no will power what so ever when am gonig threw W.Ds a couldnt do it unless a was locked up and then a have no choice hang in there pal keep strong x

who ever the half wit is and was paid alot of cash by the goverment to do that study about W.Ds that there non existent what a load a bull a would like to read this report if only this was true then we wouldnt be in the state where in with this heroin a find this really outrages

 

[cherrycolouredfunk]

But these mild W.D's are nothing compared to how you feel when your body goes through opiate withdrawal!

Heroin/opiate withdrawal is a very real thing, i think who ever did that study is way off & i'm glad that they are not treating me.......

Oh god yeah, I am by no means saying that there is no physical edge to H withdrawal. I wish I could say so!!! They are evil, pure evil.

I don't think my friend was meaning to say that the study dismissed physical W.D's totally. They only did a study on the effect of money on WD's. I should have written it better maybe. I'd like to read the study actually. I'm going to ask her to ask her key worker, who was the person who told her about it.

 

[endlessnameless]

endless hats off to ye if ye can pay your bill and not score when your so rough,l have no will power what so ever when am gonig threw W.Ds a couldnt do it unless a was locked up and then a have no choice hang in there pal keep strong x

That means so much to me cazamac. Really, it does. I've changed into warmer clothes, have a coffee here beside me and listening to the smiths seems to help a bit. No matter how many times I bathe myself I still feel filthy as fuck. However, unless I have a shave with a decent blade I'll still feel like an aimlessly wandering tramp (no offense any of those, of course).

If I can bum a 5r I'll be able to get a box of codeine tablets. My friend is going through the cold turkey too and just cant do it - with almost absolute hesitance I barely can myself - and wants to hit the streets for methadone. I really dont think theres much point in going onto methadone now that I'm on day 2. Of course it would certainly make things much easier, but would I be setting myself back? It'd only be 10-15mls for 2/3 days at most anyway...humm.

 

[cherrycolouredfunk]

^ Ah, I feel for you. I did a cold turkey of 3 days a few months ago, coming off a gramme a day. It was the worst thing i've ever done. I had no phone, no money, no internet, a so called friend who i'd had a fight with had broken my buzzer, so I couldn't hear my friends buzzing me, who would have probably sorted me out with a few mls OF H or subutex if id been sure i wanted to get clean, (I wasn't, it was a forced cluck due to no money or way of contacting anyone) if i'd been able to hear the door. I thought I was going to die as I couldn't even get out of the house to see anyone and had no way of contacting anyone.

However, Day 4 was my payday, and I was just well enough to walk to the shop (i'd not eaten in 3 days) to geta nourishment drink, on the way to the shop I bumped into someone who was scoring, and that was me back on the using road.

I've not been clean for more than 3 days since. Worst thing i've experienced since those 3 days is a Methadone cluck coming off 60ml, i'd forgotten to get to the chemist before it shut - nightmare! The thought of coming off my methadone TERRIFIES ME!!!

Keep on in there endless, once you pass day 3 it starts to get better!

 

[cazamac]

a dont really know if you should get the done if it came between scoreing or buyin done a would buy the done and do a taper cause usein would fk you right up.keep drinkin plenty of hot drinks,your on your 2nd day your doing great.

do you sleep when your doing W.Ds a know a lassie who can a couldnt a really cant understand how peeps can sleep.

 

[eireann]

ructions cuan mhuire in athy will take u in keep smoken a bag a day and ud be in'in 2 weeks to a month its 6wks of fi and 5months of rehab its very hard i went in but came out 5days later its not free or easy like cuan dara but its rated 1 of d best in europe if ur on the dole uve to sign it over to dem and dey take 140e outa it[its incredibly catholic if ur not religious ul go insane haha]

 

[eireann]

a dont really know if you should get the done if it came between scoreing or buyin done a would buy the done and do a taper cause usein would fk you right up.keep drinkin plenty of hot drinks,your on your 2nd day your doing great.

do you sleep when your doing W.Ds a know a lassie who can a couldnt a really cant understand how peeps can sleep.

feckn sleep she must be iron woman

 

[eireann]

a dont really know if you should get the done if it came between scoreing or buyin done a would buy the done and do a taper cause usein would fk you right up.keep drinkin plenty of hot drinks,your on your 2nd day your doing great.

do you sleep when your doing W.Ds a know a lassie who can a couldnt a really cant understand how peeps can sleep.

feckn sleep she must be iron woman

 

[BecomingJulie]

Hang in there, Endless.

Whether it's meth or codeine won't make any difference. They both trigger the same receptors (though codeine gets there quicker than methadone; its half-life, i.e. the time it takes your body to get through half of what is in it, is only 3 hours as opposed to 24 hours for meth). And your body is still trying to get its own "homebrew" together; taking any opioid will interfere with this process.

Best thing I can suggest is: spend whatever you were going to use to get drugs on some decent, sharp razor blades, and take a shave. Shaving is actually a form of deep meditation. For a few moments at least, the universe will shrink: nothing will exist but you, the razor, the basin and the mirror. And you will know you haven't set back your recovery. You just might even stimulate a bit of endorphin production.

And remember, this is as bad as it gets. If you can get past day 3, the worst is already over.

 

[ructions]

Endless pal my advice to you is to stop reading this thread when your feeling sick! I think every one talking about W.D's is making you 100 times worse! You went 2 days last week without gear & you were not this bad, & you went 5 whole days without gear or methadone not so long ago & you said yourself that you felt fine, so reading peoples stories of W.D's is obviously not helping you.

So just try relax yours self & try eat well, the gear hasn't got any stronger lately, in-fact its weaker! So you should be ok like you were before. One thing that you will have to watch out for is cravings, cravings will get you, they get me every time. So keep busy, listen to uplifting music, put angry music on! Fight back! Throw your self into your paintings/drawings, try keep your mind busy! Also try get sleepers, if you still feel really bad try a 5 day detox with methadone starting with no more then 40mls, but only use methadone if you have to.
.
Most of all you know that mate of yours that introduced you to to the needle 2 weeks ago? Tell him to fuck right off! I know he is probably a really nice bloke, but you can't be around people like that, he'll have to fuck off & sort him self out! I know it sounds harsh & it is, but often people try to stop using heroin just before they descend into a full blown habit, so this could be a cross road for You! When you have a full blown habit you can't go more then 12 hours without heroin, so you'll need to buy two €20 bags a day & then three €20 bags a day just to feel normal! When your strung out you'll need to spend at least €60 a day on gear, its no joke! & the gear is to crap in Dublin at the moment that it just makes everything worse! But if i was you i'd stop reading this thread for a few days. & fight cravings, cravings can torment you, they drive me insane! So every time you think your gonna give in & score say to your self 'I'll wait an hour before i score' & then keep busy for that hour, hopefully hours of been clean will turn into days of been clean & then weeks!

@Eireann: Hiya! Hows you?! Ugh i don't think i'd be into rehab, i'd have to want to stop using to go to rehab. All i'm doing is waiting for the quality of the gear to improve in Dublin, looks like i'll be waiting a long time for things to get back to normal!! But thanks a million for the advice, i will keep it in mind if i ever cop on to myself!!! Hope your keeping well!!! Thanx!