Misc Regarding people who drink kratom everyday

[plumbus-nine]

I say all that to ask this:
If kratom suddenly became unavailable, will I be totally incapacitated? For how long? Should I go ahead and stock up just in case?

I was using 10-15g(-20 on some occasions)/d for half a year and had very little withdrawal, not more than 2 days of increased nervousness and a bit irritability but I doubt others would have been able to notice. Kratom is very dependent on the dosage used, so I can't directly compare my doses to yours but I would say you shouldn't be totally incapacitated if you run out. Best would be to try it while you still have it around, just dose down over a week or go turkey and then see how you feel and if bad then how much of the stuff you need to feel ok again.

 

[Sickmanlives]

I don’t mind the tea itself, I like the capsules better tho. It just does a better job for me.

 

[n3ophy7e]

I was using 10-15g(-20 on some occasions)/d for half a year and had very little withdrawal, not more than 2 days of increased nervousness and a bit irritability but I doubt others would have been able to notice. Kratom is very dependent on the dosage used, so I can't directly compare my doses to yours but I would say you shouldn't be totally incapacitated if you run out. Best would be to try it while you still have it around, just dose down over a week or go turkey and then see how you feel and if bad then how much of the stuff you need to feel ok again.

That's what I'd suggest too. I had to do the same thing when codeine became Schedule 4 (prescription only) instead of OTC here in Australia. They were threatening it for several years while I was knee deep in a 600-700mg/day codeine habit. So I had to both taper down and stock up before they took it off the shelves.

 

[Xorkoth]

I've never felt any "hangover" effects and I've never experienced constipation. I haven't gone a day without kratom in over 3 years, so I'm certain that I'm addicted.

I say all that to ask this:
If kratom suddenly became unavailable, will I be totally incapacitated? For how long? Should I go ahead and stock up just in case? I really have no issue with being dependent for the rest of my life, but I hear rumblings about kratom being banned and that concerns me.

I've never had any hangovers from it, either. I have had really horrific constipation at 30-40g per day though, like really bad, really painful. I'll take about 10 of the 200mg ducosate sodium stool softener pills every day, which helps. But the real helper is taking 2 teaspoons of psyllium husk powder per day. I will do that for the rest of my life regardless, it's most of your soluble fiber you need for your diet, and it makes everything move along perfectly. I've been on either kratom or suboxone for a while now and that's all I'm taking to combat constipation and I haven't had any issues since I started on the psyllium husk.

You will certainly experience pretty severe withdrawals. I would consider slowly stocking up so you have an emergency supply, and if it does get banned, prepare to taper and come off of it.

Personally, I hate being addicted to kratom, I end up dosing around the clock, and I wake up at 6am in withdrawal, take more just to finish sleeping. I feel like I am always on the edge of withdrawal even when it reaches its "peak" after taking a dose. The first dose in the morning after I get up will have me still feeling withdrawals, I have to wait 2 hours to take the next dose to finally feel semi-normal, because if I take the second dose too soon, I get the dizziness and nausea of taking too much. The best I ever feel is just "not bad"... never good. It's really shitty. I'm always in kind of a bad mood and irritable, all day every day. That's why I got some suboxone and am slowly tapering. I'd rather come off suboxone than try to come off kratom because kratom withdrawal restlessness makes me feel like I'm going to go insane, it's like the worst RLS, except in every part of my body. Hellish.

Some people say they never get bad withdrawal from kratom, and I will say, you don't feel like you have the flu or get nauseous or anything like with true opiates. I also hear some people say they're not really bothered by any significant restlessness with opiate withdrawals, I have even heard people saying "omg I hate withdrawal because all I can do is sleep". For me, the restlessness is BY FAR the worst part of opiate withdrawal and I would kill to be able to sleep a wink at all. I am thinking that maybe if you're one of the lucky motherfuckers who doesn't get severe restlessness from opiate withdrawal, you might not experience really bad withdrawals from kratom, because that is its most pronounced withdrawal effect. But for me, the horrific restless limbs is the worst feeling imaginable. So therefore, severe kratom addiction has the most unbearable withdrawals of any opioid I've come off of. Absolutely no chance of sleeping for a week or more, and every moment is torture. As I have gotten older with more years of opiate addiction, and more withdrawals, under my belt, the withdrawal gets worse and worse, and longer and longer. The first time I came off of kratom, it wasn't too bad. lasted 3 days, and I was fine. Nowadays, it's more like 10 days until I can sleep or feel even slightly comfortable in my own skin.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I’ve been using kratom for about 6? months maybe a little longer

I think it’s really great because I can switch back and forth between opioids and kratom

I tried recently mixing the two together but I spent the day in a bad mood never feeling high or even good
someone said that they worked good together and someone else said that they canceled each other out

which is it?
I felt like a moody bitch when I mixed the two together and I snorted so much oxy without feeling it I had to take a 2 day break because I couldn’t even breathe

so my questions are these what happens when you mix opioids specifically for me I took several oxycodone 20’s with green malay kratom

and when you take kratom does your opioid tolerance go down

sometimes I think it doesn’t and then other times I think it does

 

[Pucman]

Wow havent been here in 4 years, sill sober from Heroin and 3 years off alcohol, but I started using Kratom after quitting the booze. I am an addict thru and thru. I started out using moderate dose and loving the Kratom. But the addict inside took it to extreme levels, 60 gpd with zero breaks, I knew I was addicted just told myself it was better than the other options. Im actually a week off it now. Withdrawls are wds, they suck Im well versed in their ways, kratom is no different. High dose users know the biz. It got to a point I was doing Kratom like I was smoking cigs which is just example. There was nothing stopping me the kratom just called. I had been having some pains in my left flank, and my gut as well as urinary but I figured that as the opiod effect. lied to Dr about how much I was using they found nothing wrong, tests all came back normal even liver which I had issues with prior, psa like a 24 yo, but I knew differently. This was my body telling me something was wrong. I wasnt eating much and I wasnt feeling well at all. Moody as hell quick to fire off angrily caused my gf to leave. I isolated in the house not doing the things I had been so I started to reflect and noticed that I had been doing so much better when I was drinking pre kratom and thought about that. Mind has a funny way of convincing you to go backwards. Just here to check in and see how many more got trapped by this all natural non addictive supplement. I know its helpfull for lots of those in recovery(no way I could of dumped the booze without) and others are able to control their doses as well as the tourists who are just experimenting. For me it was just another addiction I had to leave behind. Im on a good road for now surely I will see some paws but I feel free of the green powder. Respect this opiod all the same, dependency turns into addiction. Im up for any questions I will stop in here and now. Be well take care of yourselves.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I find it is in fact a better alternate to opiates no doubt about it. Its not for free... nothing is for free regarding drugs. You're still going to give up something even for softer narcotics.

My withdrawal from kratom is not something I will ever go through but I'm tapering down to see if I can make it more manageable. I can't even miss over a day without a micro-dose it is truly ghastly lol. My biggest issue with the withdrawal is pools of sweat.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Wow havent been here in 4 years,

Hey thanks for returning and sharing your experience(s). I love this type of posting as some (self included) will praise any and all drugs during their first month of use. More important to me is a report or experience of a substance after a time has passed (optimally years) and offer a more realistic comprehensive account/opinion.
Take care.
Peace

 

[Xorkoth]

and when you take kratom does your opioid tolerance go down

No, definitely not. Well, if you're doing a strong opioid, and take kratom for a day or two, it probably goes down a bit for the stronger opiate. But taking kratom regularly, especially in high doses, will jack up your tolerance to other opiates, too. This is because kratom is an opiate. Even though it's a partial agonist (like suboxone), it seems to fuck up my tolerance to other opioids, too. I was addicted to kratom exclusively for 6 years a long time ago, before moving to harder opioids. When I switched (because kratom had entirely stopped working and I was sick of all the side effects and tremendous amounts of it I was taking), I needed very large doses of morphine, it shocked me.

Kratom is great for a while, but beware using it in larger and larger amounts. Of all the opioids I've been addicted to, it is my least favorite to be addicted to, because I spend my entire life never once feeling actually good, all I am doing is doing around the clock to avoid being in withdrawals.

 

[G_Chem]

Now imagine how bad oxy is when you wanna get off that..

-GC

 

[Snafu in the Void]

No, definitely not. Well, if you're doing a strong opioid, and take kratom for a day or two, it probably goes down a bit for the stronger opiate. But taking kratom regularly, especially in high doses, will jack up your tolerance to other opiates, too. This is because kratom is an opiate. Even though it's a partial agonist (like suboxone), it seems to fuck up my tolerance to other opioids, too. I was addicted to kratom exclusively for 6 years a long time ago, before moving to harder opioids. When I switched (because kratom had entirely stopped working and I was sick of all the side effects and tremendous amounts of it I was taking), I needed very large doses of morphine, it shocked me.

Yeah it definitely raises tolerance like that. I had been on kratom for 7 years and didn't touch any other opioid during that time until I eventually did relapse. It took 60mg of oxycodone or 25mg of oxymorphone for me to get any sort of real high, and I didn't even nod iirc. Normally if I am at zero tolerance 1/3rd of those doses would have me nodding. It was a very disappointing relapse...

However as my relapse progressed and I got into fentanyl it felt like I had zero tolerance at all and it kicked my ass. But that was an unknown fent analogue in an unknown dose so pretty unreliable anecdote.

Kratom is great for a while, but beware using it in larger and larger amounts. Of all the opioids I've been addicted to, it is my least favorite to be addicted to, because I spend my entire life never once feeling actually good, all I am doing is doing around the clock to avoid being in withdrawals.

Yeah, the benefits of kratom drop off very quickly once you become dependent. High dependence for a low effect ratio.

I feel like kratom withdrawals are akin to withdrawing from an opioid + SSRI + antipsychotic all at the same time. It's less acutely severe than something like heroin or fentanyl, but has a host of other withdrawal effects that make it it's own unique devil.

 

[Conky]

I've come off 100g daily in the psych ward and the withdrawal wasn't that bad

I mean yeah it sucked mostly because the nurses were only giving me 1mg doses of Ativan which didn't do anything

I just had flu like symptoms and was mildly restless

I prefer alcohol tbh

 

[Xorkoth]

I've come off 100g daily in the psych ward and the withdrawal wasn't that bad

I mean yeah it sucked mostly because the nurses were only giving me 1mg doses of Ativan which didn't do anything

I just had flu like symptoms and was mildly restless

I prefer alcohol tbh

You should feel fortunate. Many people, myself included, get horrific restlessness from high dose kratom withdrawal. In fact the RLS is so bad for me even at 40 grams per day that it makes me wish I was dead. Makes me feel like I'm going insane, thinking about chopping off my legs and arms. It's like RLS of the entire body. Totally unable to sleep a wink for the whole duration of the withdrawal, too, which makes it even worse. I don't feel physically sick like with full agonists, but it's its own brand of hell. For me, the restless limbs is the worst part of opiate withdrawal, so that makes kratom as bad, or worse, as any of them. Mind you, that's in high doses. In low daily doses, it's not so bad.

 

[The Shadow Self]

I have noticed that a few years back, Kratom was really mostly considered to be a life saver for Opiate WDs. And of course, it was only a matter of time before people started embracing it for other purposes, which has happened. Because it worked so well for getting off of opiates, I never considered using it for anything else, primarily because I knew that there was nothing like it beyond its use for that specific purpose, for me. And yes...people are catching on that a Kratom habit can be a nightmare, for sure, and for that particular issue, there is no "kratom-like" compound for Kratom dependence, as it were. Although it's just my position, I never wanted to use it for anything else due to a deep sense of gratitude for it existing for WD management purposes. And having said that, as someone stated above, what happens when you run out, as easy as it seems to acquire currently? As we all know, there is no such thing as a "lifetime supply" of any drug, and knowing what life can be like with the sudden cessation of many compounds, I prefer to not be a daily user of anything.

It took discipline wrought out of learning the hard way and suffering unnecessarily to arrive at that place, but I know better by now. I have a feeling that in the future, what is often taken for granted as "easy access to compound X" will not realistically remain that way ad infinitum. And personally, I assume that anything I might have access to today, could be gone overnight, regardless of the reasons it may happen. Money, legislation, supply chain disruption, or whatever the case may be. But that's just like, my opinion, man...as The Dude might say...

 

[Neuroborean]

I'm VERY interested in getting the only substance that seems to be interesting enough to replace kratom if the pharmafia keeps pushing for the ban:
psychotria colorata.

It seems super interesting, one of the alkaloids works as a NMDA antagonist and also mu-opioid agonist, pretty gnarly pharmacology.

 

[Neuroborean]

I did get on kratom initially to kick opioids.
I continue taking it for the energy/mood boost and some chronic pain relief, but I don't really get high on it and that's fine.

I use weed&beer to get a buzz at night.
I use kratom&coffee to get me thru the day.

If you don't get high anymore I really cannot understand why you use 30-40 grams a day, that's crazy, unnecessary, amounts. It stops being safe when you go that high, long-term.

the slogan is real: less is more with kratom.

 

[jasperkent]

If you don't get high anymore I really cannot understand why you use 30-40 grams a day, that's crazy, unnecessary, amounts. It stops being safe when you go that high, long-term.

the slogan is real: less is more with kratom.

It gives me energy and improves my mood. I'm not experiencing any side effects, so I'm good with where I am.

 

[Neuroborean]

I'm VERY interested in getting the only substance that seems to be interesting enough to replace kratom if the pharmafia keeps pushing for the ban:
psychotria colorata.

It seems super interesting, one of the alkaloids works as a NMDA antagonist and also mu-opioid agonist, pretty gnarly pharmacology.

Involvement of NMDA receptors in the analgesic properties of psychotridine - PubMed

We have previously reported that the alkaloid extract of Psychotria colorata (Willd. ex R. & S.) Muell. Arg., had marked dose-dependent, opioid-like activity. Phytochemical analyses of P. colorata flowers and leaves identified several pyrrolidinoindoline alkaloids, including psychotridine. To fu …

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Antinociceptive profile of hodgkinsine - PubMed

To further understand the mechanism of analgesic activity and structural requirements of pyrrolidinoindoline alkaloids identified in Psychotria colorata, we here report the analgesic activity of the trimer hodgkinsine on thermal and chemical models of analgesia. Results show that hodgkinsine...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Analgesic activity of Psychotria colorata (Willd. ex R. & S.) Muell. Arg. alkaloids - PubMed

An ethnopharmacological survey showed that home remedies prepared with flowers, fruits and roots of Psychotria colorata (Wild. ex R. & S.) Muell. Arg. (RUBIACEAE) are used by Amazonian caboclos as pain killers. These data led to the evaluation of analgesic activity of extracts of P. colorata, us …

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Neuroborean]

It gives me energy and improves my mood. I'm not experiencing any side effects, so I'm good with where I am.

Please, forgive me if you consider this gaslighting...
Honestly I think you're fooling yourself. The energetic effects of kratom normally tend to have a ceiling, over 5-6 grams the opioid effects start firing the receptors more than the adrenergic system, which means that it tends to become less energetic and more sedating. Not saying that this could be a bit different for you, because each body is different, just saying that, pharmacologically talking, much likely you don't need doses that high to achieve the results you want (adrenergic system boost).

 

[Neuroborean]

If you want to boost (amazingly) the adrenergic stimulation of kratom you can add half a teaspoon of yohimbe bark (tea), it works wonders and goes hand and hand with kratom. Best herbal combo ever. They compliment each other like no other stuff.