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Misc Regarding people who drink kratom everyday

W

washingtonbound

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
438
I wanted to give my two cents here because I’ve noticed an upward trend of people using kratom everyday. I am not one to judge this decision but figured I’d point some of the things I noticed from being around people who do.

Many people regard kratom as a fantastic alternative to conventional opiates which I believe has merit. Some may use it to get off heroin or whatever else. Others use the argument that lots of people drink coffee everyday so what’s wrong with doing so with kratom. Anyway, my observations have been that those who drink this everyday have a tendency to dance around the fact that it may be an addiction. They do a variety of mental gymnastics to convince themselves it’s not an issue and defend their habit to the death. They seem to believe that because it’s “just a plant,”or whatever means it’s not as much of a problem. Personally I find this logic to be flawed.

I have found those who drink kratom everyday at whatever juice bar to have rather extreme withdrawal effects upon cessation. Not everyone but enough. It is not pleasant to be around someone who has missed their kratom for the day and ready to blow someone’s face off.

Anyway, just wanted to share my opinion on this. If you disagree with it I apologize.
 
I think most people on this forum will readily warn you about kratom addiction.

Personally I used it to get off heroin 8 years ago. It wasn't until a few years later that I accidentally ran out one time did I realize how bad the withdrawals were. Yet, I forgot about it for several more years. It's relatively very cheap and easy to get, so I never really had to deal with withdrawals and thus didn't really appreciate just how dependent I was on it. I knew I was addicted, but hey, it's not heroin right? It's easy to minimize it.

About 3 months ago I was forced to cold turkey on my 40g/day habit due to extraneous neurological issues. While it was not as severe as heroin or fentanyl withdrawal in several aspects, it was really just as bad when you add in the unique negative effects it brings. It has such a complex pharmacology, it changes your brain in ways opioids do not. The acute hellish withdrawal was 5-6 days, yet it lingered and I was unfunctional for 14 days. I still did not feel right after 30 days.

This level of withdrawal only comes with high doses, I think kratom is still a valuable tool. Used responsibly, I think the dependence is mild. Once you go over about 10g/day it gets pretty rough.

But yeah, there are a lot of kratom addicts out there.
 
Yeah, I've been drinking kratom regularly/daily off and on for about 8 years now. It's helped me get off dope and alcohol.

I always tell people that are new to it than it can be just as dependence inducing as other opioids if you happen to enjoy it.

That said, I've personally never experienced miserable withdrawals coming off it, but that could possibly just be that there hasn't really been a period in the past 8 years where I've totally been off opioids in one form or another.

I realize I need opioids to function at this point, but kratom use is manageable enough, and as long as I keep to only dosing 2-3 times a day, it still functions well.

It also took some time for me to get the dosage right. I used to take up to 12gs a dose, but eventually dropped to like 4.

Now I just take 2tspns a dose, I weighed the amount at one point but can't really remember what precisely it is.
 
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washingtonbound said:
I wanted to give my two cents here because I’ve noticed an upward trend of people using kratom everyday. I am not one to judge this decision but figured I’d point some of the things I noticed from being around people who do.

Many people regard kratom as a fantastic alternative to conventional opiates which I believe has merit. Some may use it to get off heroin or whatever else. Others use the argument that lots of people drink coffee everyday so what’s wrong with doing so with kratom. Anyway, my observations have been that those who drink this everyday have a tendency to dance around the fact that it may be an addiction. They do a variety of mental gymnastics to convince themselves it’s not an issue and defend their habit to the death. They seem to believe that because it’s “just a plant,”or whatever means it’s not as much of a problem. Personally I find this logic to be flawed.

I have found those who drink kratom everyday at whatever juice bar to have rather extreme withdrawal effects upon cessation. Not everyone but enough. It is not pleasant to be around someone who has missed their kratom for the day and ready to blow someone’s face off.

Anyway, just wanted to share my opinion on this. If you disagree with it I apologize.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. Though on this forum, people generally freely admit and understand it's an addiction, I can't tell you how many people in real life I have met who are going around telling people it's a miracle plant, non-addictive, gets you off opiates and isn't an opiate, and so on. Parts of the "recovery industry" and kratom sellers tend to also push this.

In reality, kratom IS an opioid. its primary mechanism of action, and the reason it prevents opiate withdrawals, is because of mu opioid receptor agonism. It is a partial agonist at the mu receptor (like buprenorphine/suboxone, except weaker and with pretty low affinity), and it produces witgdrawals with chronic usage. If you're dosing a few grams once poer day for a while, you'll have mild withdrawals, some people might even not notice them much. But if you're dosing large, or dosing around the clock, you will eventually get really bad withdrawals. My experience is that there is a less sickness than traditional opiate withdrawal, but even worse restless limbs. The restless limbs are the worst symptom of withdrawals for me, so I find heavy dose kratom withdrawal harder to deal with than any other opiate withdrawal that I have experienced (which has been oxy, snorted heroin, and poppy tea).

Whenever I am on kratom, I can't help but escalate to dosing 5 or 6 times a day, at 8 grams per dose. My first stretch of addiction was for somewhere between 5 and 6 years in a row, and I was dosing about 100 grams a day and not even really feeling anything except relief from withdrawals. Being addicted to kratom sucks, bad.

That said, it is a great tool for coming off of worse opiates... a life of dosing a safe, legal plant (in terms of there being no risk of overdose) sure beats a life of hustling for heroin, eventually overdosing on fentanyl by accident, being destitute, etc. But it is not some perfectly safe natural herb, it is an addictive drug.
 
deficiT said:
Now I just take 2tblspns a dose, I weighed the amount at one point but can't really remember what precisely it is.
Click to expand...

1 level teaspoon of the flour-like powder is almost exactly 2 grams. 1 tablespoon is almost exactly 6 grams.
 
Xorkoth said:
1 level teaspoon of the flour-like powder is almost exactly 2 grams. 1 tablespoon is almost exactly 6 grams.
Click to expand...
I see. Well, maybe these aren't tablespoons cuz they're not like huge. But shit, maybe I am just dosing super high lol and not even thinking about it.
 
If you're using teaspoons, then you are dosing 4 grams. Tablespoons are 3 times as big as teaspoons. Is it a measuring spoon, or a spoon you eat with? Most eating spoons are about a teaspoon, but it's inaccurate because whatever you put on them is not level., but rather rounded on top. If you leveled an eating spoon, the amount it held would depend on how deep the spoon's curve it.

A true tablespoon of kratom is a lot of powder in the mouth. I can toss and wash 4 teaspoons (8 grams) at a time, but that's my limit, I don't think I could manage to swallow 2 whole tablespoons of powder at once.
 
Xorkoth said:
If you're using teaspoons, then you are dosing 4 grams. Tablespoons are 3 times as big as teaspoons. Is it a measuring spoon, or a spoon you eat with? Most eating spoons are about a teaspoon, but it's inaccurate because whatever you put on them is not level., but rather rounded on top. If you leveled an eating spoon, the amount it held would depend on how deep the spoon's curve it.

A true tablespoon of kratom is a lot of powder in the mouth. I can toss and wash 4 teaspoons (8 grams) at a time, but that's my limit, I don't think I could manage to swallow 2 whole tablespoons of powder at once.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not sure, my gf's mom got a bunch of weird spoons, but yeah they're ones you eat with but they seem larger, and yeah most of the time it's a little pile I don't make it completely level.

Oh yeah, the other thing I'll say about daily kratom use, is that it can definitely give you pretty serious constipation issues if you're taking heavy doses all day every day. I had an ER trip where I thought I was having a hernia. Turned out I was just full of shit. Dr said they had seen nothing like it before lol.
 
Xorkoth said:
Totally agreed. Though on this forum, people generally freely admit and understand it's an addiction, I can't tell you how many people in real life I have met who are going around telling people it's a miracle plant, non-addictive, gets you off opiates and isn't an opiate, and so on. Parts of the "recovery industry" and kratom sellers tend to also push this.

In reality, kratom IS an opioid. its primary mechanism of action, and the reason it prevents opiate withdrawals, is because of mu opioid receptor agonism. It is a partial agonist at the mu receptor (like buprenorphine/suboxone, except weaker and with pretty low affinity), and it produces witgdrawals with chronic usage. If you're dosing a few grams once poer day for a while, you'll have mild withdrawals, some people might even not notice them much. But if you're dosing large, or dosing around the clock, you will eventually get really bad withdrawals. My experience is that there is a less sickness than traditional opiate withdrawal, but even worse restless limbs. The restless limbs are the worst symptom of withdrawals for me, so I find heavy dose kratom withdrawal harder to deal with than any other opiate withdrawal that I have experienced (which has been oxy, snorted heroin, and poppy tea).

Whenever I am on kratom, I can't help but escalate to dosing 5 or 6 times a day, at 8 grams per dose. My first stretch of addiction was for somewhere between 5 and 6 years in a row, and I was dosing about 100 grams a day and not even really feeling anything except relief from withdrawals. Being addicted to kratom sucks, bad.

That said, it is a great tool for coming off of worse opiates... a life of dosing a safe, legal plant (in terms of there being no risk of overdose) sure beats a life of hustling for heroin, eventually overdosing on fentanyl by accident, being destitute, etc. But it is not some perfectly safe natural herb, it is an addictive drug.
Click to expand...
Great to hear you have insight about the situation. I’m glad I never was a daily user of the stuff as I would get so nauseous it would be unbearable, with hangovers nearly worse than alcohol at high doses. I agree it is better than being hooked on heroin but definitely not a desirable habit in itself. As mentioned I’ve seen people withdrawal; even people who use very moderately have told me that they feel like shit coming off of it, with mood swings and the like. Just not my cup of tea I guess (literally)
 
Xorkoth said:
I can toss and wash 4 teaspoons
Click to expand...
Fuck I tried T&W 1g and bout puked my guts out. Guess like anything; practice.
deficiT said:
I was just full of shit
Click to expand...
:ROFLMAO:

I am getting tired of daily use. Although my habit is relatively low it is just tiresome. Wish I could find a replacement that was comparable.
I was one that thought kratom was without a downside but over the past year or two have changed my tune.
 
I guess I'm taking 30 to 40 grams a day, in 3 to 4 doses. I considered that to be relatively heavy until I read that some folks were taking as much as 100g daily. I can't even imagine that. My dosage seemed to plateau about 2 years ago and I've had no desire to increase it.

I've never felt any "hangover" effects and I've never experienced constipation. I haven't gone a day without kratom in over 3 years, so I'm certain that I'm addicted.

I say all that to ask this:
If kratom suddenly became unavailable, will I be totally incapacitated? For how long? Should I go ahead and stock up just in case? I really have no issue with being dependent for the rest of my life, but I hear rumblings about kratom being banned and that concerns me.

Goddamn politicians. Always trying to protect me from myself. 😡
 
jasperkent said:
I guess I'm taking 30 to 40 grams a day, in 3 to 4 doses. I considered that to be relatively heavy until I read that some folks were taking as much as 100g daily. I can't even imagine that. My dosage seemed to plateau about 2 years ago and I've had no desire to increase it.

I've never felt any "hangover" effects and I've never experienced constipation. I haven't gone a day without kratom in over 3 years, so I'm certain that I'm addicted.

I say all that to ask this:
If kratom suddenly became unavailable, will I be totally incapacitated? For how long? Should I go ahead and stock up just in case? I really have no issue with being dependent for the rest of my life, but I hear rumblings about kratom being banned and that concerns me.

Goddamn politicians. Always trying to protect me from myself. 😡
Click to expand...
Personally I was never an everyday user, but one night I went to town on some yellow kratom with a couple “booster shots” at my local juice bar. I was yakking a mile a minute to people and feeling euphoric, went home around 2am, vomited everywhere, and when I woke up the next day I was still sick with a throbbing headache. It felt almost as if I had died.
 
I've overdone it a couple times and experienced nausea and dizziness. Actually I consider that a good thing, as it prevents me from taking too much.
 
jasperkent said:
Should I go ahead and stock up just in case?
Click to expand...
I always do/have when I can/could afford it. Been banning this herb since before I tried it several years ago and honestly I quit listening maybe its just another marketing ploy...? ha
I'm gonna try something here soon and see if I can replace kratom with another substance sustainably. My biggest issue is moderation but if I can effect a type of "control" I can save by spending a 10th compared to kratom.
 
washingtonbound said:
rather extreme withdrawal effects upon cessation.
Click to expand...
Don't know man, surely those who take more than 15-20gpd would have "serious problems" like having a very unconfortable withdrawal. I suffer diabetes type 1 and I prefer 100x the kratom withdrawal I get, easily manageable with the help of other herbs and supplements, and gone in around 3-4 days, than having bad blood sugar or whatever other crap.
I think too many people get on the kratom train and overdose, considering overdosing everything that doesn't add benefits but adds potential side effects or negatives. I doubt that anyone that doesn't have horrible moon high anxiety or terrible pain needs to use more than 10-15 grams a day, even with tolerance. If you want to get high then it's not sustainable as a substance, IMO. It can feel "allright" but nothing else. For me weed was kinda the same, I ended up using it for getting high and I was just addicted, didn't help at all, and had a lot of negatives, with kratom I didn't commit the same mistake and I normally take 7-11 grams a day. I stop for a month several times a year.
I think that most people who use kratom, at least in USA, is people who are/were opioid addicts or have had problems with opioids or another types of addiction, then if you jump from one addictive substance to another, milder, addictive substance, the potential for abuse is there: both for the substance and for your addictive personality.
So sadly a lot of people misuse the plant.
 
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I did get on kratom initially to kick opioids.
I continue taking it for the energy/mood boost and some chronic pain relief, but I don't really get high on it and that's fine.

I use weed&beer to get a buzz at night.
I use kratom&coffee to get me thru the day.
 
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