Opioids redosing on hydrocodone?

[Frydea]

so i have a question about hydrocodone redosing. i have always heard redosing on hydrocodone is pointless and does not do anything. however, the last time i did hydrocodone, which was about a month ago, i started with 20 mg. i was feeling ok, had a decent high going. then after maybe an hour or hour and a half i decided fuck it, and took my last 2 5 mg pills, so overall i consumed 30 mg. after i took those last 2 pills, my high ended up being magnified by like 10 times. i was nodding in and out of consciousness for like 2 hours before finally passing out, ive never been even close to that high on pills. so my question is, in your experinece is redosing effective?

 

[lorne667]

I haven't really heard anyone say to not redose hydrocodone, but if people do say not to redose, it is becuase hydrocodone is a prodrug which requires the p450 liver enzymes to become active. Specifically, cyp2d6 metabolizes a small amount into hydromorphone. Redosing thus might be less effective, becuase of less enzymes, but I would always redose with oxy, and usually had great effects.

And with most other opiates, I LOVE to redose. In fact, I have made an art of it. So if it works, have at it!

 

[Poppa'_$murfxXx]

how do i redose effectivly on oxycodone?

 

[lorne667]

how do i redose effectivly on oxycodone?

Well that's a complex question that depends on YOUR metabolism, as well s whether or not you want to try and induce 2d6 to get a higher oxymorphone yield, or if your like me, and will sacrifice a bit of potency for a longer duration of action.

Basically I start off with a large dose-nothing ridiculous, but enough to get the job done. Redosing after that is done at a consistent rate, to slowly get you higher, while all the while maintaining the original. I will say that I typically take inhibitors like tagament with or AFTER the initial dose, as it seems to give me an intense initial peak, then the inhibitors and the subsequent dose keep it going all night, which is pretty much the goal with oxy's (somewhat) short half life.

I don't know your tolerance, but as a reference point for my cat(RIP Mr. WieK) he would start with 40mg, with 25mg benadrly prior, and 600-800mg tagament and any other inhibitor(preferably 3a4 selective) afterwards. dose another 20mg within just 30-45 minutes, then another 20 60-90 minutes after that, then a 10-20mg booster at peak, to keep the peak going. Ya get what I'm saying???
(BTW, doses may seem really big or really small, I just went with a moderately high tolerance as a template. I myself needed much more than that prior to starting bupe, but you may need less)

 

[Doug2113]

When I used to take a lot of vicodin, I would start off by taking two 10's and usually every 2-3 hours I'd take another 10. I might start off with 2.5 10's, and then have my next dose be 1.5 10's. It all depended on the day and the amount of pills I had/pain I was in.

 

[burn out]

In my limited experience with hydrocodone, redosing did not work well. It would lead to more nausea but not necessarily more of a high. Now I am heroin user and i love redosing that but i had to build some tolerance before i learned how to do it.

 

[Doug2113]

I think it's more so the APAP that makes you kinda nauseated...at least...that's what it seems when I get the big green ones...but I don't really get that way anymore lol...

 

[Oxide]

It's the opiates making you nauseous. It's always the opiates.


Redosing with hydrocodone has an extremely limited efficacy. It works, sure. But it isn't nearly as good, or even worth it really.

By the time I'm ready to redose, I'm usually just trying to bring back the buzz. If I fight that urge and wait until the next morning, I'm always extremely grateful to myself the following day. I've never, ever felt that it was 'worth it' after I took more pills later in the day, usually closer to the time I go to sleep.

I just regret it the next day. Every time.

Take your hydrocodone dose all at once, and if you must redose, don't waste too much. Keep it low.

 

[Doug2113]

Yes, the opiates (or as in this case, opioids) can make you sick, but I've also noticed if I have the ones that have a lot of APAP in them, I'm more likely to get sick from taking them in higher quantities.

 

[Moredopamine]

I took 20mg hydrocodone last night and redosed 15mg a few hours later. It most definitely did work.

Also, I'm taking prozac, which is a cyp2d6 inhibitor. I still got high even though this should have limited the hydrocodone->hydromorphone conversion. This is likely because hydrocodone itself has mu-opioid activity. So while redosing hydrocodone may limit the ability to convert hydrocodone to hydromorphone, it shouldn't completely limit your ability to get high off a redose.

 

[burn out]

It's the opiates making you nauseous. It's always the opiates.

I would tend to agree because taking APAP by itself never made me nauseous in the slightest and even small amounts of vicodin have made me extremely nauseous. The odd thing though, is that I used to often wind up with incapacitating nausea from norco and sometimes other hydrocodone pills. It was an awful sick feeling that put me off opiates. Now I use heroin on a regular bases and I never feel anything like that. Even if I take too much heroin and throw up, I never get the icky feeling I would get from hydrocodone and the heroin nausea never lasts as long. This makes me wonder whether it was something else in the pills making me nauseous or if I just respond very poorly to hydrocodone but not other opiates.

 

[Doug2113]

I still don't understand why I can take 3 yellow 10-325s and be fine, then take 2 10-660s or 3 7.5-750s and get sick. Maybe it's just my diet of the day/current circumstances/time of day. I just know it seems I get the more nauseated feeling with lower hydrocodone:apap ratios and it's never seemed dependent on the amount of hydrocodone. Like I said though, maybe it's just coincidence.

 

[lorne667]

I still don't understand why I can take 3 yellow 10-325s and be fine, then take 2 10-660s or 3 7.5-750s and get sick. Maybe it's just my diet of the day/current circumstances/time of day. I just know it seems I get the more nauseated feeling with lower hydrocodone:apap ratios and it's never seemed dependent on the amount of hydrocodone. Like I said though, maybe it's just coincidence.

It is most likely the combo of hydro+APAP that is doing you in. I am not sure why, but for some reason, a lot of people I know, who can take moderate doses of oxycodone get sick on equal doses of hydro(which would be only 50-75% the strength of the oxy). So I think hydro in general can be a nauseous drug, mix that with APAP and your done.

Also, I will say that hydro does have SOME action on it's own, I mean oxy is very much active without any conversion to oxymorphone, so logic dictates hydro would be to an extent. However, the limited action of the hydrocodone would be so weak, anyone with even a slight tolerance won't feel it at all.

And I will also say that I fucking despise hydro; At age 16, it took 40mg of hydro for even a decent buzz, and now that my livers less than 100% even a few 10's makes me feel like I want to puke.

 

[Tommyboy]

Redosing on hydrocoding has never been worth it for me. If you take it before or during the peak, I can see it working well. If I take it after the peak during the comedown, it will just prolong the comedown a bit, and just make me a little more spacey and tired. Due to this, I make sure that I at least take a nap in between opiate consumption, so my brain can "reset" itself.

I guess we can refer to one of the very common saying on bluelight for this.... "Everybody is different."

 

[Doug2113]

@ Lorne 667: Bummer that sucks. I like them. If I take 25mg I can get a slight buzz (not super fucked, but a buzz) and my pain levels are down to about a 3 or a 4 from a 7-7.5 when I wake up; their better than the Trams I'm on (5-6 on avg.).

If you were opiate naive when you were 16, it may have been that you didn't know what to look for in an opiate high. It took me doing it a couple of times to look for a body high more than a heady high.

@ TommyBoy: Would this be so for someone taking it for pain relief (e.g. just lengthening the duration of diminishing analgesia)?

 

[Oxide]

@ TommyBoy: Would this be so for someone taking it for pain relief (e.g. just lengthening the duration of diminishing analgesia)?

Redosing with hydrocodone for the purpose of pain relief should still work pretty well, but if you're redosing it for the wrong reasons (i.e. trying to bring back the high) it seems to punish you by leaving you unsatisfied.

But pain-wise, taking another hydrocodone has never failed to help me. ;p

 

[lorne667]

Bummer that sucks. I like them. If I take 25mg I can get a slight buzz (not super fucked, but a buzz) and my pain levels are down to about a 3 or a 4 from a 7-7.5 when I wake up; their better than the Trams I'm on (5-6 on avg.).

If you were opiate naive when you were 16, it may have been that you didn't know what to look for in an opiate high. It took me doing it a couple of times to look for a body high more than a heady high.

Well that is a very logical and intelligent conclusion, Doug, so I tip my hat to you. But that wasn't the problem. My first real experience with Opiates was a few weeks after my 16th b-day; I had an abscess(which is extremely ironic, because I have been IV'ing a long time and never had another one) and was prescribed 25 percs. And I remember it like it was yesterday: The bottle said take 1-2 every so many hours, so I started with 3. Well I felt fucking fantastic. within a couple hours, I took 1 or 2 more, I honestly don't remember, and had one of the greatest highs of my life. It was a costly high, though. From that moment on, I knew I wanted to take opiates every day, and well, I have.

On a more important note, I would like to say, that I honestly don't know why people think hydro has NO ACTION by itself. I mean, anyone who has done hydromorphone should know the highs are completely different. Now obviously, injecting 8mg of hydromorphone is a lot different then taking 40mg of hydro, and just having a couple of mg convert in-vivo. But still, even removing the IV element, the effects are substantially different enough to conclude that hydrocodone does have some action on it's own. As a great example of this, hydromorphone is known for it's rush, yet hydrocodone has the opposite reputation, of being a very drowsy opioid.

I can't take hydro now, but have experminted before when I took methadone. I load up on enzyme inhibitos when I take methadone, to maximize the 'done. So my cyp3a4 and cyp2d6 are fucking frozen. So when I added hydro, it therotically would've gave me no hydromorphone at all, or at least not enough to feel. Based on these experiences, I get very little from the "pure" hydro in terms of opiate effect, but it did provide sedation, and added some potentiation.

Ultimately, I think hydrocodone itself is a more sedating opoid than hydromorphone, but again, is so weak as to have no practical effect on a user.

 

[lorne667]

Redosing with hydrocodone for the purpose of pain relief should still work pretty well, but if you're redosing it for the wrong reasons (i.e. trying to bring back the high) it seems to punish you by leaving you unsatisfied.

But pain-wise, taking another hydrocodone has never failed to help me. ;p

Perfect advice

 

[Tommyboy]

@ TommyBoy: Would this be so for someone taking it for pain relief (e.g. just lengthening the duration of diminishing analgesia)?

Redosing with hydrocodone for the purpose of pain relief should still work pretty well, but if you're redosing it for the wrong reasons (i.e. trying to bring back the high) it seems to punish you by leaving you unsatisfied.

But pain-wise, taking another hydrocodone has never failed to help me. ;p

I agree with what Oxide said on the matter.

My rationale for experiencing insignificant euphoria upon redosing hydrocodone after it's peak is that your brain is already in a haze, and you may be too tired and/or drowsy to feel the full euphoric effects.

The other issue that I have with redosing hydrocodone is that the limited euphoria that it provides is likely not worth the increase in tolerance that will ensue as a byproduct of the increased opiate consumption.

 

[Oxide]

The other issue that I have with redosing hydrocodone is that the limited euphoria that it provides is likely not worth the increase in tolerance that will ensue as a byproduct of the increased opiate consumption.

A very good point, the trade-off just isn't worth it in the end.

Resisting the urge to redose not only gives you a reason to jump out of bed first thing the next morning, but also keeps the unforgiving, ever-present, all-knowing tolerance beast in check.

At least sort of, anyway.