Rebuilding a life and all this extra time..

For me I at times [most] I dont have a clue. One thing I am glad about is that my days of needles and dope have been gone for a long time. I have only used h maybe 3-4 times in the past 5 years. Shaking that aspect of well being a dope fiend was HARD and that was with sitting on maintenence [bupe] for the last 8 years, what was I thinking?! The transition from a drug addict to meds was hard but I was younger and that was all I knew.

Than those meds man, straight fucked me up. It was WAY to hard for me to go from dirty gutters to nothing. I just wasnt ready to be sober and I have been questioning it still. I was so obsessed with opiates/drugs, you name it. It was just this ritualized behavior in me that I needed something or alot of things to get me on my feet. I have been off off opiates/benzo since easter and things are good, I guess. I am finally starting to feel better physically and somewhat mentally. My anxiety still gets a little rough around the edges but that is mainly because I am always thinking about it.

If I could go back and change things I would have gotten a job [something small part time] right off the bat. As I had/have too much time to analyze my behavior or maybe my lack of behavior. I have been lazy for as long as I can remember trying to buck the system and just be without having to worry about 9-5 bullshit. I haven't worked for a LONG time but now that I am clean it is a daunting task as fuct up as that sounds. So instead I started up school again. I was never able to complete a full year when I was on dope but I did get thru multiple semesters multiple times. When I wasnt in the ghetto instead of class, eventually I said fuck school I am just going to shoot dope. And that is what I did for about a decade.

I think I still have an [I hesitate to use the word] obsession with drugs and the effect on the brain. Sometimes I just dont know and want to just escape this world but I could never do it. Nor do I want to but I still have thoughts about swerving into the other lane of traffic but just my luck I would just get serious injuries and get stuck on opiates again. All the years of abuse shattered my self-confidence [benzos mainly] and I often think I am not good enough. Although I know in the back of my head that is total bullshit. Yet it still handicaps me especially with girls I ALWAYS wait for chicks to pick me up, rarely do I take the initiative. That has been bugging me lately but than I say well getting a g/f is just me looking to fill some void and it will turn unhealthy, wtf?!

I think I am just placating myself. I still get laid whenever but I am craving a relationship. Another complexity is as selfish, ugly as it sounds when I do have a potential g/f on the line I will find things wrong with her that is totally superficial. I have always been like that though and habits are hard to change but I am making progress. Kinda just rambling but oh well...

belfort

I remember you mention something about sweating before. Man that shit is driving me crazy I change shirts still at least 2 times a day because of it and it drives me crazy. This new anti-perspirant has been helping a little but not totally. How long did sweats last with you? It is mainly in social situations but that coupled with shaking hands well, sucks.

peace.
seedless
 
^^the sweats still are with me..i find i sweat much easier than most people..other opiod addicts i talk to say the same thing..literally changing shirts throughout the day..it does get better but its still there..one thing you can buy is Certain-Dri..find it at any basingers or walgreens pharmacy, very cheap but the most effective..you put that on your pits and they will be dry no matter how hot or humid it is..

i also found that when i got sober i had no sense of identity..i didnt know who i was without drugs..am i the crazy drug taking dude that craves adventure or am i the sit at home thype guy that surfs the internet and watches movies..i still dont know...lol..but yeah, a job helps as do dogs and a good solid exercise program...relationships are still very touhg for me as well..
 
I don't know Pauly but for now having money and stressing about time ABSOLUTELY kills not having money and being addicted to opiates.

And another thing I want to say, maybe I'm still on my "pink cloud", but getting high was NEVER FUN to begin. My life was definitely worse getting high than it is now. I have a monkey the size of king kong off my back. And if I could conquer an addiction, I don't see any excuse not to start conquering other areas of my life.
I also believe that 4% recovery rate is complete bullshit. The number one thing we learned in our stats class is the sheer amount of social experiments that are reproduced with vastly different results. Recovery rates would surely be a social experiment.
You can get 4% from one group and 60% from another, but only report 4% because it suits your hypothesis. Stats is a highly manipulated field of research, so manipulated that its near impossible to generalize results from to larger populations.

Find me the exact study you are referencing and I GUARANTEE it is methodlogically flawed like most research is. I can prob find 100 things they did wrong in that study. Did they use ANY recovering drug addict? Or did they use heroin addicts? Or "darvocet junkies"? Were they old or young? What was the ratio? Seriously, research is more than limited. And I would never use it to justify my own behavoir knowing how limited it is.

Sure my life sucks, but I expected it to suck. I don't expect my life to get better for another year or 2. So I'm ok with it sucking right now.
I am also not Ted Bundy. There is a very big difference in the motivations that drive a serial killer and the motivations that drive a drug addict. I would never attempt to derive any parallels in their behavoir. I could prob find similarities between a cow and a sheep but you don't see me trying to milk a sheep. They still ARE vey different animals.
It sounds to me Pauly like you quit drugs and for some reason expected life to be peachy. I realized before quitting that this would happen, and I'm planning for it now. Can I be back using in a few years? Absolutely. But as long as I want to use "because my life sucks", doing drugs will NEVER fix that.
The REASON my life sucks in the first place is drugs. So how does going back to them solve anything? If it gets even harder 6 months from now thats perfectly fine, EVEN MORE REASON to hate drugs.

But in the meantime, I have a feeling I'm gonna wind up walking into NA rooms again. I managed 5 years clean once before with the help of NA, and I never really wanted to go back using... I did because I was selfish and stupid.
And I'm absolutely not planning on it again.
 
Okay, the 4% rate was from Dr. Drew on Celebrity Rehab. From the people I grew up with, maybe it is more like 10% total cessesion of all addictive substances over a lifetime. It is a well known figure. It doesn't mean it applies to you, you 4 percenter, Ha Ha. The Bundy parallel I knew would be contraversial but after reading a couple books on what drives serial killers, there are parallels in that there is a progression of acting out, an increase in "using" over time, because for those inclined to murder, killing is an abusable escape, a rush so to speak.
Killing was Bundy's drug, more specifically stalking and killing, it was his abusable escape and it did follow a pattern of increasing need for sensation. Now the parallels I draw apply to binge-type addicts, such as I. You are more of a maintenance user, from what I gather, though I'm oftern wrong.
I speak of the comparison as a comparison of instances of acting out, whether it be the "deviance" of blowing money on illegal street drugs or the true deviance of murder. What I mean is that first Bundy attacked one woman and didn't do it again for a year. Then the next year he attacked two women, then it was once a month, then at the end he was totally out of control and constantly on the hunt. That is similar to my pattern of drug use, first I did it once a month, then on weekends, then on Wednesday, then all the time. That is what I meant: a progression of increasing intensity and frequency of acting out behavior.
I wasn't trying to equate the moral qualities of the mutually exclusive behaviors of murder and drug addiction, just the quantifiable fact of x acted out this number of times with negative behavior. I guess I didn't make that clear enough.
Regarding the pink cloud, well it is what it is. The first few days of abstinence you were probably excited (and still are) about the bare fact of sobriety. But now the addiction that gave your life meaning (even if you don't realize it, even if it was destructive and negative, it gave you a sense of purpose and something to care about, from the procurement to the final tapering) is gone and you need to find something else to give your self over to, you dig? Weight lifting is a great idea. As is working even a menial job. Also, good luck on the FAFSA, it can be trying to jump through all the hoops required, but it will work out. Things have a way of working out in sobriety. So in conclusion, I did not mean to say you were a killer (KILLA!), except maybe of paychecks or pots of poppy tea;). Good luck man! I do think you will make it, you seem determined and not so impulsive as I.
 
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Yeh I notice that a lot between the different styles of using you are right. I'm definitely a "maintenance" user and never really went back and forth between getting high as I possibly could to not having any drugs at all. So I guess that behavoir *may work in my favor (I'm hoping it will). But I was also abusing a much less impuslive drug too. I stayed away from oxies because I knew how fast I would get out of control with them. Pods were easy to maintain on... almost too easy.

The thing that bothers me now isn't really my situation lol. Its this subconcious belief you seem to possess (I realize I could be just imagining this) that overtime your drug habits are going to evolve and get more and more out of control no matter what. I can see why that would happen with a serial killer. Because once you cross that line of taking someones life, your life is ALREADY ruined from day 1.
Even if you're not caught just knowing how severe the social consequences are I could see that alone feeding the cycle. With drug addiction the social consequences can still feed the cycle, but its much more escapable imo. And I DEFINITELY don't think addictions always have to get worse and worse. I'd hate to see your situation getting more severe as time goes by just because deep down thats how you model the cycle of addiction in your mind.

Overtime going through the addictions you have, aren't you also experiencing more and more how addiction ruins your life? Or are your cycles getting worse because its your life thats actually getting worse? From the addiction? Drugs make life bad, then life makes your experiences with drugs that much worse. It makes complete sense to me on one level, but on another level why not KNOW thats where addiction is going to take you, and fight to improve your life w/out drugs?
Or is it just so far gone at this point you've given up? Because thats the ONLY way I can see it actually getting worse overtime. Is when one day you convince yourself that things are beyond repair, "I've wasted too much time of my life getting high, theres no point trying to fix things anymore". If thats the point you're at, than I really can't tell you to fight it anymore. I mean addiction is a judgement call as much as its a lifestyle. And I can't tell you how you should be living your life. But the "event horizon" of addiction is what really scares me the most.
I don't wanna be one of those people who wakes up at 45, having wasted 25 years of my life getting high.. because the gravity of that predicament would surely be too strong for me to escape. And I could only see another 5-10 years passing by where I wind up taking my own life (prob by an OD). Its a real personal situation for everyone involved, and all our stories are different, but I still like seeing people having an open mind about addiction.

I'd like for you to believe that addiction can be "controlled" over time. And what I mean by that is not that you never use again, but that you realize your personal weakpoints through experience. And use that knowledge as an advantage in the future. Like for me speed ruined more of my life than opiates EVER have. They took about 8 years of my life away which was 4 times the amount of time I was actually on them. Opiates don't cause that sort of absolute destruction in my life, they slowly corrode things away much slower. So knowing that for my own survival, I would NEVER relapse on speed... EVER.
I'd be dead in a week. And I've developed a raw hate towards the drug now.

Thats why I hope, even as drug addicts, whether recovering or using, that SOMEHOW we can learn how to make our lives more peaceful as we get older. I DON'T believe it always has to get worse, and I think its very possible that we can suffer great adversities through our life, but STILL have something more than worth living for.

I hope this didn't come off like I was disagreeing either, I know exactly what you're saying. I just think that our lives usually always pan out according to what we believe.
If one person goes to NA and has convinced themself that drug addicts are helpless, hopeless fucks who always need to avoid drugs and make meetings, that person is really not to well off for surviving addiction imo.
If another person goes to NA, but convinces themself a drug addict doesn't always need to act like the protypical hollywood junkie, they may relapse, but get on with their lives much quicker. I think our own views of how drug addicts are suppose to act wind up tainting a lot of our own behavoir.. which is pretty fucking crazy when you think about it. Because it removes a large aspect of the drugs CONTROLLING US away from the situation.
We are STILL very much controlling our own behavoir.

I see junkies on tv sucking **** for dope... does that mean if I do dope I'll behave the same way? Absolutely not. But so many people seem to forget that, lose control, and blame certain ridiculous behavoirs on the "disease". I say fuck that, blame yourself, and get on with life. I really think the main problem with addiction is people calling it a "disease". Addiction IS PROGRESSIVE BECAUSE society labels it a disease in the first place.

WE SET those traps ourself. What if society didn't consider it a disease? How many people would stop acting and living like it is? I 100% understand how drugs "take over" our lives, but I still think addicts are very selfish people. Calling addiction a disease in the first place is the MOST SELFISH thing I can think of.
YOUR HANDS touched that drug, YOUR HANDS put that drug into your body, HOW THE HELL is that a "disease". Our society is built on some of the weakest social constructs you could imagine. Talk about scarcity thinking. "Use this drug and you'll get some mysterious disease that takes all your self control away". BULLSHIT. People lose control because THEY behave that way, the last thing they need is a reason to not accept responsibility... "its a disease" and what not. I should prob shut up before I start offending people lol.

(sorry for the rant)
 
Yeah, I agree with what you say. I don't believe it will blindly get worse and worse per se. Usually if I see that happening I can take some sort of step back before disaster happens, most of the time. That is why I don't do crack, for example. But for me, left unchecked, my pattern of use has a tendency to bite me in the ass.
 
I'm in the same boat. 60 days clean off opiates and all other substances today. I'm still in out patient rehab for another 4 - 6 weeks, so for now I am OK, but still I have this sort of void that needs to be filled. In the breaks between the group sessions I find myself wanting to hurry up and get in the groups and then in the groups I wanna hurry up and get to the breaks. That's a mini example of how I'm generally feeling all the time. I'm really worried about when I finish as I'm living in a hostel at the moment and if I start working I have to pay the £800 rent and will be left with less money than I have on benefits (welfare). Think I'm gonna look into a college course or some volutantary work. I am pretty certain this is just P.A.W.S and the brain re-adjusting, so my plan is to fill my time as best I can until I am just generally comfortable just being.
This is most definately the hard part, well the acute withdrawals were the hardest thing I've ever done, but this really takes some effort getting through. Keep at it mate, message me if you like as we're both going through the same thing and can give each other support.

Cheers, Oli

P.S. Does anyone know how long P.A.W.S will last? I'm 25. I have been using a lot of drugs and alcohol addictively for the last 12 years and opiates for the last 4.
 
^^there is no set date for how long PAWS lasts..for some, it is over within a month or 2 but for most it lasts years...some it may even last for a lifetime...i still have Paws symptoms and ive been clean for 4-5 years so...
 
"4-5" years? That sounds more like you're mistaking depression for paws dude what specific symptoms are you getting?

How long were you using and what did you use? And can you show me one medical piece of literature that says paws can "last a lifetime"?
 
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same with me i just stopped doing opiates llike 10 days ago. and ive just been sitting around really watching tv and eating alot, which is good cuz i lost alot of weight. But i feel bad because i feel like i should be doing things like getting a job and going to school. But it seems hard right now. feel like my parents and brother think im a loser for just sitting on the couch all day, but what they dont know this is really hard for me, staying in, not hanging out with my old friends because all they do is drink and do drugs. last night was hard all my friends went out on the lake and partied all day and night, while i watched dexter all day. Maybe when i sign up for a gym tommorow ill feel better. im glad im not the only person who just sits around after quitting opiates.

i kinda feel like when i was on drugs i had a way better social life, now i dont talk to anyone or really wanna hang out with anyone. Girls call me all day, and i just ignore them. hmmmm
 
http://www.ohsu.edu/nod/documents/2007/04-30/Koob and Le Moal 2001.pdf

There are many doctors who theorize the changes to the brain caused by addiction may be permanent. There is no proof that it does or does not cause permanent changes obviously, it's all just theory.

I personally don't find it too hard to believe that someone who started doing drugs at 16 everyday and continues that way until they are 30 years old has caused some permanent changes in their brain. I'd frankly be kinda surprised if it didn't...

I've personally gone nearly a decade being addicted to benzos and opiates, and also abused copious amounts of pretty much every other street drug. Now that I have stopped using (I still use a minimal amount of marijuana) it is obvious to me my cognitive abilities have been *drastically* lowered over this period.

I know that I will be able to make something of my life. I'm not doubting I can live a good, sober life. However, I highly doubt my cognitive abilities will ever go back to their baseline or that I will ever experience the simple pleasures of life like a non-addict.

I spent 10 years of my life actively throwing every chemical I could find in to my brain. It would be a miracle to somehow completely recover from that..

EDIT:

I'm sure that that the bulk majority of users are able to recover 100% from addiction. However in my opinion I think some users (specifically long-term polydrug addiction) may have permanent changes to the brain. Again, I still think you can lead a solid and productive life even after addiction.
 
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same with me i just stopped doing opiates llike 10 days ago. and ive just been sitting around really watching tv and eating alot, which is good cuz i lost alot of weight. But i feel bad because i feel like i should be doing things like getting a job and going to school. But it seems hard right now. feel like my parents and brother think im a loser for just sitting on the couch all day, but what they dont know this is really hard for me, staying in, not hanging out with my old friends because all they do is drink and do drugs. last night was hard all my friends went out on the lake and partied all day and night, while i watched dexter all day. Maybe when i sign up for a gym tommorow ill feel better. im glad im not the only person who just sits around after quitting opiates.

i kinda feel like when i was on drugs i had a way better social life, now i dont talk to anyone or really wanna hang out with anyone. Girls call me all day, and i just ignore them. hmmmm

Yeh that is definitely the hardest part. Like my brother woke up, went to work and I was sleeping. And came home half a day at noon and I was still asleep. Well actually I feel asleep after he left for like 2-3 hours and woke up at noon. Didn't really sleep at all in my bed till hours after the sun came up, think it was around 8-9am.

I wish I could tell my family somehow that I'm going through a process of healing right now, and need to be like this. But theres no way that will happen, so I have no choice but to continue being a lazy bastard. I start class in 2 days anyway so I'll be forced to be doing some shit, but I still am trying to wait another 2-3 weeks before I start trying to work. I consider it a blessing I was able to get off opiates w/out a job. And if I had a job I would have found every excuse in the world to use.
As far as the social life thing that doesn't really bother me. Maybe Im' older idk (28 ) but life reaches a point where people don't like going out as much anyway, and if I miss their calls now its not like they still won't be around in a few weeks anyway. I just hate being stuck in lazy mode like this, but theres no way I'll really be doing anything else... which is why I've been on this forum so much lately.
 
bojangles-if i took the time to look it up i could point you to several studies that show Paws can last a lifetime..that the changes done to the brain by ingesting opiods can last a lifetime..i have to ask how many long term addicts have you talked to??go to any NA meeting and they will back my story up...some people recover quite well, others dont..as for why some do and some dont, who knows..everyones brain responds differently...

paws for me is a general lack of energy, lack of 'pep in my step', lack of motivation....i didnt have any of these things prior to opiate use..

i used nubain for a little over 2 years, then started using oxycontin for another 2 years, then IV heroi for 3 years, then went on methadone and that lasted for 2-3 years....just read up on opiate addiction and how some people claim it 'robs their spirit' and similar stories....theres a reason the relapse rate is quite high...it takes forever to feel normal again...
 
It just sounds wierd at face value for the fact that opiates don't cause brain damage. If they permantently have the ability to alter any functioning of your brain, thats considered brain damage. Like speed is known for causing brain damage, so when I hear speed addicts 25 years after an addiction complaining about paranoia it makes total sense.

But when I hear opiate addicts saying that sometimes it sounds weird. If your receptors can't get back to normal, I think that qualifies as damage. Even if it takes 5-10 years to quit that can still be your brain healing from the damage, but I never viewed opiates as having those types of effects.
I HAVE seen and talked to a lot of recovering addicts in NA. But back when I went to NA I was abusing speed, so I never really spoke about opiate addictions to people.

Thats just extremely demotivating to hear. I see you were using much harder opiates than me for much longer, so I'm hoping that will work in my favor. I'm just wondering if theres a chance that it took you so long to recover, that depression started and you recovered, but you failed to realize you recovered because of the depression.
Getting off opiates can trigger depression, and depression can last for years untreated, and I'm wondering if most those people at NA are really just suffering from that.

I took had tons of motivation before opiates, but when I stopped last time around, I went straight on lexapro, and don't recall even one day of paws. Got all my energy back relatively fast, and didn't take paws seriously back then.
Now I stopped, w/out taking an anti-depressant, and for the most part just feel symptoms of depression. I can say its "paws", but it feels like classical depression, which I had after speed a long time ago. And it feels just the same as now.

I just really wonder how many people are really mistaking depression for paws. Paws causes depression, but idk... opiates don't cause brain damage, and in a way it sounds like you're describing brain damage.

Just confusing is all.
 
Opiates don't cause brain damage in the sense that they don't kill brain cells..

If you take opiates everyday for years on end though your brain is going to start to work differently, and if you take opiates for long enough it is theoretically possible for those changes to be permanent as well.

He is a little science on the matter..

Is Opiate Addiction Associated With Longstanding Neurobiological Changes?
Michele Martin, M.D., Robin A. Hurley, M.D. and Katherine H. Taber, Ph.D.

http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/19/3/242

Young drug abusers are up to three times more likely to suffer brain damage than those who don't use drugs, according to research published online by Neuropathology and Applied Neurobiology.

Scientists at the University of Edinburgh studied the brains of 34 deceased intravaneous drug abusers of heroin and methadone and compared them to the brains of 16 young people who were not drug users. Their examination revealed brain damage in the drug abusers normally seen in much older people.

The damaged nerve cells were in the areas of the brain involved in learning, memory and emotional well being, and were similar to damage found in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease.

"Our study shows evidence of an increased risk of brain damage associated with heroin and methadone use, which may be highest in the young, when individuals are most likely to acquire the habit" said co-author Jeanne Bell Professor of Neuropathology. "We found that the brains of these young drug abusers showed significantly higher levels of two key proteins associated with brain damage."

"In a previous study we found out that drug abuse causes low grade inflammation in the brain. Taken together, the two studies suggest that intravenous opiate abuse may be linked to premature ageing of the brain," Bell said.

Heroin and Methadone Cause Damage
The average age in these two groups in the study was only 26 years and included some drug abusers as young as 17.

"Tau protein, which in its soluble form is essential for communication and transport within brain cells, had become insoluble in some cells, causing nerve cell damage and death in selected areas of the brain," the authors reported. "Other nerve cells showed an accumulation of the amyloid precursor protein, which suggests that protein transport had been disrupted and the nerve cell functions affected."

Severe Nerve Cell Damage
"This study shows that drug abuse can lead to a build up of proteins which cause severe nerve cell damage and death in essential parts of the brain. This is very worrying as there are strong indications that drug use in the UK, in particular opiates like heroin and methadone, has continued to rise in recent years" says Professor Bell.

"The drug abusers we looked at in the study sadly died at a young age, but there are many others who don't realise the long-term effects that these drugs may be causing."

Source: S. N. Ramage, I. C. Anthony, F. W. Carnie, A. Busuttil, R. Robertson, J. E. Bell, "Hyperphosphorylated tau and amyloid precursor protein deposition is increased in the brains of young drug abusers," Neuropathology and Applied Neurobiology, June 2005.
 
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This is why you NEVER EVER fucking believe research when it says "this drug doesn't cause brain damage".
What a load of crap.

If protiens are building up and causing nerve damage in the brian that IS brain damage. WTF?! You know how many studies I've read saying opiates don't cause brain damage? Tons.

Thats quite a shocking read. Fuck that. I am DONE with this shit. 99% of the reason I never went back to speed was what it did to my brain, I always assumed the brain is capable of bouncing back 100% it just takes some people more time with opiates.

But after reading that wtf, I am never using fucking opiates again. Cells compose the brains entire structure, if cells are dying the BRAIN is too. I truely hate science with a passion. I should be smarter then this shit.
We prescribe speed in the 1950's as an "antidepressant" then realize it makes more people sucidial than any drug in this world almost.

I gotta stop basing my beliefs on science cause science is fucking worthless.
THANK YOU for citing that.
 
Neuropsychological functioning in opiate-dependent subjects receiving and following methadone maintenance treatment

Objective

An accumulating body of research suggests that former heroin abusers in methadone maintenance therapy (MMT) exhibit deficits in cognitive function. Whether these deficits are present in former methadone maintained patients following discontinuation of MMT is unknown. This study tests the hypothesis that former heroin users who have detoxified from methadone maintenance therapy and are drug-free have less pronounced cognitive impairment than patients continuing long-term MMT.

Method

A series of neuropsychological tests were administered to three groups of subjects: 29 former heroin addicts receiving methadone maintenance treatment, 27 former heroin addicts withdrawn from all opiates, and 29 healthy controls without a history of drug dependence. Testing included Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale-Revised Vocabulary Test, the Stroop Color-Word Test, the Controlled Oral Word Association Test, the Benton Visual Retention Test, and a Substance Use Inventory.

Findings

Both methadone-maintained and abstinent subject groups performed worse than controls on tasks that measured verbal function, visual-spatial analysis and memory, and resistance to distractibility. Abstinent subjects performed worse than their methadone maintained counterparts on tests measuring visual memory and construct formation. Cognitive impairment did not correlate with any index of drug use.

Conclusions

We confirmed previous findings of neuropsychological impairment in long-term MMT recipients. Both patients receiving MMT and former heroin users in prolonged abstinence exhibited a similar degree of cognitive impairment. Cognitive dysfunction in patients receiving methadone maintenance may not resolve following methadone detoxification.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2067988/
 
Yeah Bojangles, I hear you man. One of the reasons I stayed an addict so long is because I thought the drugs couldn't cause permanent damage. If I would of known I could of potentially fucked the rest of my life up I would of never of kept using.

Live and learn I guess...
 
Yep that means to me loud and clear that they DO permanently alter the brain. Science can suck my dick as far as I'm concerned. Thats something I take rather serious now after what I went through with speed, I'm glad I only have like 4 total years addicted to opiates, so if I stay clean hopefully I'll get most my functioning back.

But that absolutely means to me w/out a doubt that they cause brain damage. Opiates have been around for so long, and have always been viewed as safe for the most part when used correctly. But if they are administering methadone, "safely" and causing cognitive dysfunction, they're essentially handing out mental illness's to people. I love this society we live in.

I just gotta be smart and realize nothings ever set in stone no matter how much we think we know. That was one of the most valuable things I've learned on here in a while so thanks to you and the person who started this (belfort).
 
oh ive always been under the impression opiates were not toxic in that they dont damage the bodies tissues or brain...the sticking point with opiate users is after getting clean that their natural endophins can get back to normal..in my case i dont they have as my well being isnt where it should be imo..plus, i do notice my thinking patterns can get looped at times and i dont think clearly as i used to...then again, this could be due to me getting older or not getting enough sleep etc etc...

dr drew was the man that talked about endorphin damage from long term opiate use but he said that in most cases this could be remedied by medication and exercise, therapy..

is anyone else very skeptical of those opiate addicts on the show intervention?there will be cases where they go to rehab and on their 12th day of being clean they will act as if they feel great, happier than ever...shit with opiates, when i got clean it took months to get back to that state...
 
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