RC's: Where to begin?

[artsncrafts]

Now I'm a curious person, and like learning. I've looked at some of the RC's on Erowid, but between their chemical names, and my limited understanding of them, it just seems like a confusing jumble of letters and numbers. There just seems to be so many combinations of analogues, (ie: all of the different ~DMT chemical combinations, etc) to really begin to navigate.

So, I have a couple questions.

1) For the novice, what is the best way to learn about these things? How does one not get confused without a degree in chemistry? (lol)

2) Obviously, some chemicals are going to be more dangerous than others. Obviously, everyone's tolerance/experience is different. And I know that RC's have very little (if any) clinical testing accompanied with them. However, is there such a thing as a safe RC? Are there some who's side effects are found to be benign enough to be (fairly) safe in taking them?

3) What made you become interested in them, and what has your experience been like? Positives and negatives.

Thanks.

 

[deko]

Curious or a scummy Journo?

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

Most of the more popular RCs have their own thread(s) here on Bluelight. While it may seem overwhelming given all the chemical names, etc...it's not. Read through some of the megathreads here in Psychedelic Drugs (as well as in Other Drugs) and sites like Erowid to get more information.

We can't give you a blanket discription of RCs. There are so many different kinds of them. We also can't just tell you what drugs to take.

 

[artsncrafts]

Curious or a scummy Journo?

I don't know what a Journo is.

So basically, my curiosity is coming from this: Last summer, I took what I thought was acid. It was not acid...had a really bad time. Recently, I have come to learn that the source of this was someone I used to date...he is not the most ethical person in the world, to say the least. In any event. Turns out that this person has been purchasing RC's and passing them off as acid. I don't know which ones, etc.

So when I found this out, a few weeks ago, I started googling the crap out of things. Hence how I found and joined this forum. And I got really paranoid about things, because I took what I thought was acid on New Years, as well, and was supposed to be taking acid again in a few weeks at a festival. Now, my paranoia has caused me to say no to other people's drugs and just do some extracted LSA instead.

But I'm curious because these are things that I don't have knowledge of, and because I know they're out there, and because I know that my ex is passing them off to people without cautioning them on dosing, side effects, etc.

Now I just want to learn more, because why the hell not?

 

[1394]

A journo is a journalist.

Don't get lost in the alphabet soup of Rc's.

 

[artsncrafts]

A journo is a journalist.

Don't get lost in the alphabet soup of Rc's.

That is to say, "Stay away from them"?
Because that seems like sage advice.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

That's the problem with lumping all RCs into one pile. Some are newer and have very little known about them, whereas others have been around for a while and have a proven safety profile. AMT, MDA, MDMA, and the 2C-x/DOx classes of drugs have all been in use for decades and are, or at least were fairly recently, considered to be "RCs"

 

[any major dude]

Reading PiHKAL & TiHKAL is a great way to learn about both nomenclature & effects of a lot of these substances. Plus its a great read

I guess i could give a short guide to the nomenclature of the more common things.

2C-x - These are phenethylamines not terribly dissimilar from mescaline chemically. Most of these have amphetamine counterparts referred to as DOx, the latter are generally much more potent & longer lasting. Chemically they only differ by an alpha-methyl group. The 2C-x class also have NBOMe counterparts, which have a methoxybenzyl (BOMe) group attached to the nitrogen (N) on the amine end of the molecule. These are even more potent than the DOx class, ususally having dosages in the hundreds of micrograms, however they are inactive orally & are usually taken buccally or sublingually & occasionally vaporised or insufflated.

Psilocin (4-HO-DMT) analogues are usually denoted as 4-xxx-xxT. They are most commonly either acetylated (AcO) or hydroxylated (HO), hence 4-AcO or 4-HO at the beginning of most of them. The last three letters refer to the types of alkyl groups attached to the amine end of the molecule. DMT would be di-methyl-tryptamine, MET methyl-ethyl-tryptamine, MiPT methyl-isopropyl-tryptamine etc. The simple tryptamines (without 4-xx) are denoted in the same way, DPT di-propyl-tryptamine.

Hope that helps!

 

[1394]

That is to say, "Stay away from them"?
Because that seems like sage advice.

Most RC's have very short histories in terms of human consumption. Unless you want to become a test subject, I'd refrain from taking them.

 

[mr.buffnstuff]

What Iv always done is see what RC websites are offering and what's available to me elsewhere. Then I'll google them, if it sounds like something I'd like, I'll look on erowid and here to find out more info, if it seems relatively safe I'll go back to erowid look at 'experiences' then order

 

[omicamushroom]

I'd say to stick with the ones that have been around the longest. Eat some LSD, enjoy that... the 2c-x family has been around for a while and is quite popular and available in a lot of areas. DOx is another phenethylamine group that has been pretty common. DOM was being sold in the 70s, and had hippies bugging. , Trytamines are good. I have experience particularly with the 5-meo- trypts,, but there are also the hydroxy and acetoxy groups (that I would really like to locate).

Then maybe you can try some of the newer stuff like the NBOMEs and all this random stimlant / cathinone stuff. With that I'd say start with methylone... It's been around longer than things like 6-apb.

Stay away from random bag of "molly," try not to consume rolls unless you know they are solid mdma rolls. and if you get some strange acid, and are not sure what it is. Don't be tempted to keep eating it frequently. Use sparingly. I usually fuck with shit like that... but it takes me a long while. I usually have stuff that I know what it is, and occassionally I get some strange stuff.


My reccomnedations.
1 - 2c-b
2 - 5-meo-amt (If you can try AMT without the 5-meo; i think it would be better. A lot of people have issues with the 5-meo compounds. My use is mostly extensive with these though.
3. 2c-e
4. Methylone
5. 2c-t-2

That's what I found most comfortable for beginners. My use was determined on being young and stupid and eating what was available at the time. If choices were easier I would have probably chosen different chems, or at least not eaten random shit. 2c-b was the first solid rc experience I had, but was unable to score 2c-b again for a whole 2 years. I had tried some foxy and 5-meo-amt though in the between time. Even then it took me a while to find decent sources for chems.


All in all, its hard to say where you should begin. I'd say just read a lot. Start with drug history... figure out when things came about, how they came about, and why they came about. Then figure out which ones are most popular in the community today. Read up on a variety of them... Pick one (preferably an older one). Make sure it has been used somewhat widely. Plan a day. Start low and work your way up. don't feel like you need to trip too frequently.

Good luck on your journeys. Happy tripping.

 

[any major dude]

Most RC's have very short histories in terms of human consumption. Unless you want to become a test subject, I'd refrain from taking them.

Actually most RCs have been around since the 70s & 80s. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty that are newer, but most of the stuff from PiHKAL & TiHKAL is at least 30yrs old. That's much older than most commonly used psychiatric & cholesterol meds. For a since of scale, lipitor, the best selling drug in pharmaceutical history, has only been around since 1985, and all of its statin progeny are much newer. The same goes for prozac & the litany of SSRI's that have followed it.

 

[1394]

Actually most RCs have been around since the 70s & 80s. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty that are newer, but most of the stuff from PiHKAL & TiHKAL is at least 30yrs old. That's much older than most commonly used psychiatric & cholesterol meds. For a since of scale, lipitor, the best selling drug in pharmaceutical history, has only been around since 1985, and all of its statin progeny are much newer. The same goes for prozac & the litany of SSRI's that have followed it.

Yes most RC's have existed for 30 years, but not in active forms. Most of them haven't been USED for 30+ years, they manifest themselves in books.

Prozac et al. need FDA approval, very different than say... consuming peevee.

I personally wouldn't take both.

When you said RC's I thought you meant the newer generation stuff people seem to be into these days.

 

[lastest]

The way I've always gone about it is to look into which compounds I can actually get hold of, which is a tiny proportion of what is documented on erowid, etc. Then I use google to see what category of drugs they are - stimulants, downers, psychedelics etc. This rules out some things immediately - I've no interest in stimulants for example. Then I look at the duration of the effects - I really don't want to be high on anything for more than six hours or so these days, although that's just me of course.

After having established that a compound I can conceivably obtain is within my criteria I have a look at the threads about it here on bluelight and read the experience reports on erowid. There's usually a range of opinion about any drug, but if on balance it has more positive than negative reviews, and it seems to fit my taste, then I consider getting hold of it and very carefully experimenting with it.

That's not to say I never read up about things I can't get hold of, or that don't meet my criteria, but when deciding what to invest in, that's my process. It's lead to many disappointments (etaqualone is a recent example) and to a few wonderful discoveries, but either way I've stayed as safe as possible by following the harm reduction advice readily available here on bluelight and elsewhere online. Taking drugs with a short history of human consumption always entails a certain amount of risk, but so do many other things in life. Risks can be minimized by being very, very careful. If you are careful the risk of permanent damage or death is negligible, and the risk of having a shitty time is much reduced.

 

[Redbong]

1. I learned by doing research. Wikipedia, Google, erowid, and here on Bluelight are all great places to look. While on erowid, check out pihkal and tihkal.

2. Your first step in safety is to buy a mg scale. Better yet a microgram scale. There is nothing more dangerous than taking an unknown dose of some of these extremely potent drugs. I started my RC research with synthetic tryptamines. I felt safe doing that after my many years of mushroom use, and that psilocin is known to be fairly benign. I can not tell you that there are any safe RCs, they just haven't been researched enough. I do find that taking a known dose of an RC from a reliable source safer than taking an unknown dose of an unknown substance from a shady street dealer.

3. I started using RCs because of curiosity. I have used mushrooms and LSD many many times, and still will. They are great allies. I started reading up on DMT when I had found some, more like it had found me. This is when I discovered tihkal and pihkal. They opened my eyes to the large amount of psychedelic drugs in the world. Then the curiosity kicks in. My experiences have mostly been positive. I attribute this to my researching a substance before I take it. I start with low doses, and work my way up to my sweet spot. I am very happy I started my research. Have fun and be safe.

 

[artsncrafts]

There are parts of what everyone said that I want to touch upon, but that would be like ten replies...so.

You were all very helpful. any major dude, that was really interesting. I'm not entirely sure still what all of those terms mean...like, in context, I'm not sure what each term means as far as its reaction in the body. But that was a really good breakdown. Thanks.

I hadn't realized that they've been around for a really long time. So even though they haven't had a lot of clinical testing, the older ones have a history of human use. That actually makes me feel a little better about the idea of it, if only from a safety standpoint.

Yeah...there have been enough bad experiences with drugs, I could stand some safety lessons. And its not like I'm going to entirely stop doing them, so.

Someone made a really good point about trusting a reliable source of a known RC as opposed to the unknown street stuff. And that's something that I should really stop doing, and something that hadn't really occurred to me.

So I will check out tihkal and pihkal, and the other suggestions, and start from there. That was actually really helpful. Thanks.

 

[spacejunk]

if you want to 'begin' with research chemicals, i can only suggest that you spend a lot of time reading about them.
a LOT.
i decided that i wanted to try a couple of RCs about a year ago, after having a lot of doubts for many years about people being guinea pigs for untested compounds.
i find the widespread use of JWH-xxx chems and the like quite horrifying (as most of the 'test subjects' are ignorant of the danger they're subjecting themselves to) but i was keen to try some novel tryptamines and mxe.
so far i have only ordered mxe and 4-aco-dmt.
i read a lot about each compound before ordering - i looked into the legal risks in ordering (i did not want to risk getting caught importing something that is specifically scheduled in my part of the world) i looked at the trip reports - the bad experiences as well as the good. i looked at the specifics of each substance (best set & setting, safe doses, things to potentially avoid combining with said substances etc).

if you care about your health, care about your life, DO NOT just jump in and try whatever you can see is available to you.
just because people on this site experiment with some strange compounds, it doesn't mean you need to. in one of your previous threads you seemed very dubious of "research chemicals". this is a healthy scepticism, and something you should keep with you even if you do decide you want to try some of these drugs.
many things can go wrong, but if you try to approach this responsibly, you can reduce some of these potential risks.

just say know!

 

[Halif]

and because I know that my ex is passing them off to people without cautioning them on dosing, side effects, etc.

This is the scary part.

It's good that you want to learn about new and interesting stuff. As Spacejunk said above, it's important to do a heap of reading before using anything. Taking RCs means taking a risk with your health. YOUR health.

Giving stuff out to people is a different story. Everyone has to be responsible for themselves, of course. But people are sometimes reckless and get themselves into trouble. And then in turn the person who supplied them can find themselves in trouble.

I wouldn't like to be the guy the authorities/"victim"s family come looking for when someone overdoses or has a psychotic episode after taking something they haven't researched (no pun intended%)) properly.

Are you learning about this stuff to help your ex as well as yourself?

 

[shishigami]

The 2C-x class also have NBOMe counterparts, which have a methoxybenzyl (BOMe) group attached to the nitrogen (N) on the amine end of the molecule.

I always thought the n was because it was an n substitution not because the BOMe group is attached to the Nitrogen on the amine.

 

[psood0nym]

Reading PiHKAL & TiHKAL is a great way to learn about both nomenclature & effects of a lot of these substances. Plus its a great read

I guess i could give a short guide to the nomenclature of the more common things.

2C-x - These are phenethylamines not terribly dissimilar from mescaline chemically. Most of these have amphetamine counterparts referred to as DOx, the latter are generally much more potent & longer lasting. Chemically they only differ by an alpha-methyl group. The 2C-x class also have NBOMe counterparts, which have a methoxybenzyl (BOMe) group attached to the nitrogen (N) on the amine end of the molecule. These are even more potent than the DOx class, ususally having dosages in the hundreds of micrograms, however they are inactive orally & are usually taken buccally or sublingually & occasionally vaporised or insufflated.

Psilocin (4-HO-DMT) analogues are usually denoted as 4-xxx-xxT. They are most commonly either acetylated (AcO) or hydroxylated (HO), hence 4-AcO or 4-HO at the beginning of most of them. The last three letters refer to the types of alkyl groups attached to the amine end of the molecule. DMT would be di-methyl-tryptamine, MET methyl-ethyl-tryptamine, MiPT methyl-isopropyl-tryptamine etc. The simple tryptamines (without 4-xx) are denoted in the same way, DPT di-propyl-tryptamine.

Hope that helps!

Nice succinct explanation.

If you find you're still curious there's The Erowid and Bluelight Neuropharmacolgy Thread