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RC's: How Often is Too Often?

CRICKETBEE

CRICKETBEE

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
137
Ok...(long post with lots of questions)

As someone who knows that Acid can be used very frequently for many years with no ill-results, I am interested in hearing from people what the risks, side effects, and benefits are from frequent RC (c, b, I, and e for example)usage as I have very little experience in this area.

With L, one builds up a tolerance that cant really be beat for at least three days (at the least) without considerably upping the dosage, not that I havent tried. In the past this always kept me from "Constant" tripping. However, it seems that with some 2c's this is not nearly as pronounced, and this would lead me to believe that 3 or 4 times a week could be easily possible. BUT how SAFE would that be, both for the body, and for the brain? (receptor site damage, etc)

I wonder what brain chemistry issues one would be inviting if they were indulging in Rc's for a day or two, then spending a day With L, then back to the RC's or combining L and 2c's a couple times week?

I am not so much interested (at least not in this thread) in the philosophical issue of whether or not it is a good idea to use RC's frequently (3 times a week,etc) but am more interested in finding what others peoples experiences were or still are with marathon usage.

did anything bad happen? good happen? lasting effects? did you get depressed or dumb? did you feel open to new sides of your being? did you learn a lot? etc?


I know that from my own personal experiences, I would not want to be doing MDMA too frequently, as it caused depression for me when I tried using it frequently. But I have seen none of those issues with the 2c's so far.

there are so few sources of information on some of these things , or so much conflicting information ONLINE, that comparing them to something which is SO SAFE (L) can often times be a bit confusing.

(I can find very little info in books on things like 2c-e, I, and b. )

is it playing with fire? or with responsible use can one lead a rich and colorful life? Are there vitamins or supplements which can help with any negatives? etc.

I know that many of you have far more experience than I do, and I look to you to help fill in the blanks.

thanks
 
the only real health issue i've read about with most 2c-x's (2c-t-x's may be more dangerous) is the possible formation of free radicals as they are metabolized & eliminated from the body. This would likely be offset by just getting a lot of antioxidants through either your diet or vitamin supplements. Regardless of how often you're doing 2c's, getting lots of antioxidants is a good idea. With the type of frequency you're talking about, the dosage increase would likely have to be quite massive, and on a significant timeline could possibly cause some liver problems, but I'd imagine either your mind or your finances would stop you from doing these well before your liver would, but I've been wrong before.

Some people claim to not have tolerance/cross tolerance issues, but I've found them to be roughly similar to other psychedelics. In fact, with 2c's, i find that taking them closer than 5 or 6 days apart results in a decrease in subjective positive effects akin to taking LSD twice within a 3 day period, YMMV. Additionally you probably won't be able to get much of anything important done while tripping that often, and will likely find that the novelty wears off rather quickly and you'll benefit much less from the experiences than you would with less frequent dosage. Also, taking 50mg of 2c-e to get a ++ experience is such a waste!
 
interesting...

your comment about the novelty wearing off is an important one. that might not be a bad thing. with L, I actually CAN get work done, and a lot of it. I find it can be quite good for work. But 2c's (at least so far) seem to be far less "set-up" for getting things accomplished. ( a little more foggy..) however this can be very subjective.

i seem to be one of those people who finds very little (not noticeable enough when spaced out a day or two to be a deal breaker) tolerance to some of the 2c's.

with 2c-e, i had one intense experience with 15mg, and 2 days later had an intense experience with less! (13mg) (though it was NOT as intense as the first day it still provided tons of insight,etc)

but part of that could be the newness


i am interested in your comments on both the free radicals (i had heard that before in a MAPS article) and the liver damage. are you basing the liver damage on the fact that these are measured in milligrams as opposed to Ugrams? is there data to show they are hard on the liver? (as hard for example as tylenol or alcohol?)

thanks for the response
 
they aren't nearly as bad on the liver as Acetaminophen or booze (that I know of) However they are metabolized by basically the same pathway that opiates are, which we all know in the long term can cause damage. Also, I've read a number of Shulgin statements where he, in a rather offhand manner, mentions keeping his liver in good shape. I would imagine with prolonged frequent high doses this could cause a problem (as with opiates), but occasional use will in all likelihood not do any harm (as with opiates). I've read a paper on the metabolism of 2c-e somewhere, I wanna say i linked it in a thread regarding 2c-e (or maybe t2) and dihydrocodeine, though I can't find it right off. Basically it was about detecting metabolites for drug testing, but it went over the liver enzymes involved in demethylation & acetylization post deamination via MAO, IIRC. Anyway they were the same enzymes used by that body for the metabolism of many drugs, I'll post a link if i find it.
 
I believe you should play it safe.

These are chemicals with still little known data about their long-term effects.
I am all for experimenting, but respect must be given to dosage and frequency.

Anyway, like mentioned above, by abusing you will no longer benefit from all the positive effects.
But your mind and body will let you know.
 
I find tolerance comes into play with all drugs over time. I've been taking both tryptamine and phenethylamine psychedelics with some frequency for over 10 years and generally now need larger doses to feel full effects than I did when I first started. I attribute this both to my brain no longer being as sensitive to these compounds, and to the fact that I can handle most psychedelic experiences--even heavy ones. It's a navigable terrain.
 
More than once a week seems excessive to me...

It also depends how hard you trip and how deep the substance is and how hard on the body.
If it's strong mentally as well as physically then spacing trips more like 1 1/2 to 2 weeks apart seems smart.

This is my practical answer. My theoretical answer would be to wait around a month for strong trips, for your safety. I have been in an organization that offered objective information to drug users at parties and we tended to advise people to wait a certain time between taking MDMA. In reality the right time to wait was considerably longer but we did not say that because since people are often not prepared to wait that long they would dismiss the advice more readily!

So there is a dissonance between what is wise to do and what many people are prepared to sacrifice, which seems to me like a general rule of thumb for harm reduction: make it realistic.
 
champ said:
I find tolerance comes into play with all drugs over time. I've been taking both tryptamine and phenethylamine psychedelics with some frequency for over 10 years and generally now need larger doses to feel full effects than I did when I first started. I attribute this both to my brain no longer being as sensitive to these compounds, and to the fact that I can handle most psychedelic experiences--even heavy ones. It's a navigable terrain.
Click to expand...

I think familiarity with the headspace they produce can play a rather large factor in this. Its definitely more difficult for me to "break through" with psych's now than when I started, but I definitely feel the insight that my previous experiences has provided is advantageous. I doubt your brain would be less sensitive to these chemicals unless you use them very frequently. Your mind, however, being accustomed to the states of consciousness these things elicit may have developed a bit more ego resilience than it once had. Its definitely harder to jar an ego that's been dissolved before. ;) This and expectation bias is what i would attribute this phenomenon to. just my 2¢

Solipsis said:
More than once a week seems excessive to me...

It also depends how hard you trip and how deep the substance is and how hard on the body.
If it's strong mentally as well as physically then spacing trips more like 1 1/2 to 2 weeks apart seems smart.

This is my practical answer. My theoretical answer would be to wait around a month for strong trips, for your safety. I have been in an organization that offered objective information to drug users at parties and we tended to advise people to wait a certain time between taking MDMA. In reality the right time to wait was considerably longer but we did not say that because since people are often not prepared to wait that long they would dismiss the advice more readily!

So there is a dissonance between what is wise to do and what many people are prepared to sacrifice, which seems to me like a general rule of thumb for harm reduction: make it realistic.
Click to expand...

Well put. I try to set 1-2 strong trips per month as my limit. Usually just one strong one. My various forays into different chemicals at low doses I try to space at least 6 days apart, more if possible, but sometimes life gets in the way... Definitely no sooner than 5 days though, as I don't want to have an exploratory low dose experiment tainted by a cross tolerance or the presence of metabolites of other drugs.
 
Solipsis said:
More than once a week seems excessive to me...

It also depends how hard you trip and how deep the substance is and how hard on the body.
If it's strong mentally as well as physically then spacing trips more like 1 1/2 to 2 weeks apart seems smart.

This is my practical answer. My theoretical answer would be to wait around a month for strong trips, for your safety. I have been in an organization that offered objective information to drug users at parties and we tended to advise people to wait a certain time between taking MDMA. In reality the right time to wait was considerably longer but we did not say that because since people are often not prepared to wait that long they would dismiss the advice more readily!

So there is a dissonance between what is wise to do and what many people are prepared to sacrifice, which seems to me like a general rule of thumb for harm reduction: make it realistic.
Click to expand...

Great advice, and basically my sentiment as well.
 
i thinking tripping about once a month is about right

about 13 times a year would be right

this is for any substance, not just RCs
 
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ya i know 13 times a year is slightly more than once a month

but 13 is a cool number and would still be moderate use
 
I thought you were being all lunar or something
 
I am basically.

One trip for every moon.

Good job picking up on that.

Teo's Moon Calendar-

Implement new 13 moon (28 days in one "moonth", 24 hours in one day) calendar- (every 4 years you have a "leap" of 5 days of "no time")

New year starts on the Summer solstice.
Click to expand...
 
It is playing with fire.

If you binge in the short-term there will PROBABLY be no lasting effects. If you binge in the long-term, there probably will be some lasting effect.

KEEP IN MIND THE NUMBER ONE THINGS ABOUT RESEARCH CHEMICALS:

THEY'RE CALLED "RESEARCH" FOR A REASON!!!

There are no concrete answers to the questions you ask. You are doing the research yourself if you delve into this sort of behavior...

Might be cool to be the first to trip 24/7, but it wouldn't be so cool to be the first to OD on something, or be the person referred to in a medical journal paper called "Detrimental effects of long-term psychedelic phenethylamine use", would it?

Play it safe.

That disclaimer being made, i have binged in the short-term, doing PEA's about 3-4 times a week for 2-3 weeks.
It was enlightening, the magic did wear off, yes I would do it again, but only when I have the free time and a clear mind and body.
Trips evolve over time. Once you work out some of the simpler issues (harder than it sounds when all you're thinking is OOH LOOK AT THE PRETTY COLORS!...wait did you see that? What did I just say? Did I say something?), you can really find deeper things in psychedelics.

But I wouldn't do it like this over long periods of time. For one, the magic is lost. I like magic. For two, you're wasting money upping doses like that. And for three, who the fuck knows what you're doing to your brain? You clearly don't if you're asking the question, so why tempt fate...remember Murphy's Law!

My method? Binge a bit for as long as you like (you'll grow tired of psychedelics, or at least bored), then take a break until you're really jonesing for that next magical epic trip. Then dose big.

cheers.

PS: If you're looking for stuff like this in books, head over to Google scholar and do a search there. You'll find many yet unpublished things related to what you're looking for.
 
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you hit the nail on the head....i usually go through phases where its like i get stuck in the middle of the record and keep dosing over and over for a few weeks....then someone walks in the room and the record goes BUMP and it proceeds to the next track.

and then i wont for awhile. (well at least not for a few weeks)


thanks for all the advice...

btw....Playing With Fire (spacmen 3) is a really great record and reminds me so much of tripping in high school.
 
What kind of effect does tachyphylaxis have on effects of tryptamines and for how long?

I've read that you should wait 5-6 days, but is this because the drug won't work at the same dose, or more to do with negative side-effects becoming more prevelent, or something else?
 
Unresearched compounds should be ingested sparingly.

Seriously.

These compounds aren't toys, we're pushing blindly into uncharted territory here. Only a fool would approach a situation like that without exercising caution.
 
I've been doing 2c-e frequently lately (3 times a week on average for the past few weeks), and I don't think there were any short term effects. However, I did become slightly depressed during this time, but I know what caused it (not drugs).
 
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