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RC Benzodiazepines

Yeah do not get involved.
It is not a free ride. There are none.
If you do keep it lowest effective dose.
 
Lil'LinaptkSix said:
Yeah do not get involved.
It is not a free ride. There are none.
If you do keep it lowest effective dose.
Click to expand...
I have a question, whenever I hear benzo addiction it's typically (RC related), and in extreme cases itll be 20mg+ of something like Clonazolam daily, which clearly will give a hellish withdrawal. Can something as little as 0.5 of Clonazolam or Bromazolam really be that bad then? Or is it only ever for high amounts?
 
dextromethorphian said:
I have a question, whenever I hear benzo addiction it's typically (RC related), and in extreme cases itll be 20mg+ of something like Clonazolam daily, which clearly will give a hellish withdrawal. Can something as little as 0.5 of Clonazolam or Bromazolam really be that bad then? Or is it only ever for high amounts?
Click to expand...

The latest thinking (in the UK at least) is that ALL benzos should be considered as DLRs.

Nobody STARTS on 20mh of bromazolam a day. Clonazolam looks even worse as someone found a paper showing that the a1 subtype of GABA receptor causes dopamine disinhibition i.e. people are more likely to use it compulsively.

But etizolam and clobazam both have the virtue of having a plateau in their dose/response curve. Take more than 4mg of etizolam and the effects might last longer... but they will be no more intense. Clobazam is given BID medically and more than 40mg/day (equates to 20mg diazepam) doesn't make it stronger.

For the latter I found and uploaded a link to a paper entitled 'A study of Supratherapeutic Doses of Clobazam' which basically says it didn't increase side-effects or therapeutic effects in a trial of 41 people suffering from myoclonus.

So, if you feel you need a long-acting anxiolytic that has little to no abuse potential - clobazam.

Oh- but remember that clobazam is a 1,5-benzodiazepine so if you have a 1,4-benzodiazepine dependence (any other benzo) then clobazam may help a little (it IS sedating) BUT it does not replace a 1,4-benzodiazepine.

What I find slightly odd is that MUCH more potent derivatives of clobazam are known. The triazolo derivatives have been patented BUT I suggest that all you end up with is a much more potent drug that still has a plateau. Of course, if that plateau equates to 160mg diazepam/day then it might well prove to be dangerous.... but 20mg diazepam as the plateau simply doesn't allow people to get into deep water. I suggest that is why none of them werr ever developed.

BTW '2 substitution doesn't work BUT swapping the pendant aromatic from a benzene to a 2-pyridyl DOES increase potency by 50%.... so combined with a triazolo ring one could possibly produce something quite potent.
 
dextromethorphian said:
I have a question, whenever I hear benzo addiction it's typically (RC related), and in extreme cases itll be 20mg+ of something like Clonazolam daily, which clearly will give a hellish withdrawal. Can something as little as 0.5 of Clonazolam or Bromazolam really be that bad then? Or is it only ever for high amounts?
Click to expand...
If one could keep dosage at .5mg or less most of the time then personally I find it not an issue. I learn, I function, I retain new knowledge, it just lets me focus on task at hand mostly and keeps the aches outta my back.
Still, though, even at .5mg/day I would recommend a taper of maybe skipping a dose here and there.
Then maybe dropping 10% for a copla weeks. If ya feel comfortable jump off.

RCs have never been an issue in my experience but prescribed meds such as alprazolam, oxycodone etc was a freaking huge issue for a long time. And absolutely dosages would have the most to do with the benzo situation.
 
cosmic charlie said:
Eventually i wanted to stop and i went in for medical detox and was given Phenobarbitol for a week to prevent seizures. Problem was given Phenazepams extremely long halflife and how long i was on it i had an insane amount built up in my system. Well a few days into the first week i ended having a drug induced psychotic break and became convinced i was a time traveller and was hallucinating hardcore.

Well they ended up moving me to the psychiatric portion of the hospital and it took two weeks till i regained my mind and was back to being myself, but still in severe withdrawals. Well the ended up having me court ordered to be there during my time travelling episode so i had to see a judge to get out and it took 35 days.

Once i was out i felt withdrawal symptoms for no joke 6 weeks more and i had bad PAWS for at least a year after. It was one of the worst experiences i had coming off drugs. Years later i had a 20mg perday Etizolam habit and i went to the same place and detoxed with Phenobarbitol again but coming off that was so much easier in retrospect, like not even comparable.
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That's an interesting detoxification strategy. A few months ago BLer PMed me concerned that they could no longer obtain benzos and were scared that their dependence could result in abstinence proving fatal.

So I suggested phenobarbital because I KNOW barbs will stop or at least vastly reduce withdrawal symptoms. But I kind of assumed they would read about phenobarbitone and know that that a mg for mg swap wasn't appropriate. I almost cried when they told me they had spent the last of their money on 100 x 10mg phenobarbitone (for small animals I presume).

I didn't hear from them again so I don't know what happened.

I had also pointed out that a Canadian vendor was offering clormethiazole but they weren't keen to take a powder (and the prices were silly).

So it's interesting to note that it is an accepted methodology.

I ended up on 48mg of diclazepam a day and it took 640mg of diazepam to equal it. A year of reduction... but I made it.

Now I only take clobazam which I feel should be the go to benzo for most doctors. It's ceiling dose means that their is no point taking more than 20mg [BID] which equates in anxiolytic action to 10mg diazepam [BID]. It has no abuse potential unless mixed with a 1,4-benzodiazepine (mixing clobazam and diazepam gives very potent action).

Safe enough for pharmacies to just sell, IMO. Nobody would ever take them for fun and like all benzos, it's anxiolytic activity only lasts for 4 weeks.

Only the US has some odd fetish with alprazolam. I hear of people being prescribed alprazolam for moths or even years. I do not understand the logic and I truly believe it's going to end up causing a scandal similar to the one OxyContin caused.

OC requires absolute control. Only take the tablet(s) whole and only according to the prescription. If you overuse it, it's a disaster. VERY easy to end up in deep water with benzos and with OC,
 
I went down that road myself with diclazepam, thought I'd found a miracle anti anxiety drug. Think I was taking around 8/9 mg at worst then the Uk psychoactive ban come in & had to do a fast taper with what I had left. Tapered way to fast & the withdrawal was hell. I never sought medical help & ended up drinking to ease the physical/mental symptoms which didn't end well consuming a litre of Vodka at least a day. I ended up becoming an alcoholic but luckly got help with that and had a short detox in hospital & haven't touched alcohol since.
I regret it massively I guess the addiction just crossed over, I never had an alcohol problem prior to this. Anyone using them now please be careful its just not worth it.
 
Yep - alcohol is the only non-prescription treatment for benzo withdrawal. 2 decades before I came off 24mg of clonazepam a day and spent a year drinking 1.5l of gin a day.

That second time I went to my GP and it took 360mg of diazepam (12 blues [TID]) to stop withdrawal and a year of slowly cutting down.

Benzos are as bad as H. It would be so EASY to sell diclazepam for, say, £2 a pill and get a lot of punters and just slowly increase the price. I'm almost certain that the Mexican cartels have that planned for the US. Things like flunitazolam... REALLY dangerous.
 
Quitting benzos was the absolute most difficult thing in my life, and I've quit everything. I had major cognitive problems and intense agoraphobia for about 1 year after stopping. I was bedridden with depression for the first 2 months. The cognitive problems were crippling for me. My job involves writing long technical documents. It was like I couldn't read. It was so bad I often would use dictation software to read stuff for me. I could understand spoken words, but reading was very challenging. I quit over 1 year ago, and I haven't felt more or less myself until 1 month ago.

I also had major impulsive control issues while on benzos. Too much sex with too many random girls. Quit good jobs. Lost good jobs when I would try to quit in the past. Moved around for stupid reasons. These issues may be personality related, but it was much worse than pre-Benzos. Then there is the amnesia. The past 7 years are incredibly hazy. No joke - I can remember events day by day from 10 years ago. 5 years ago? I would need Google Maps timeline.

My advice to everyone is stay off benzos. Clonidine, Seroquel, carbamazepine - all are superior in many ways without the long-term risks.
 
Yeah, benzo WDs are paradoxical in that they cause symptoms which are also associated to serious benzo intoxication, like cognitive and motoric issues. I couldn't damn walk straight or talk properly or remember shit.
 
AlsoTapered said:
Hi,
About a decade ago life events resulted in my taking diclazepam (like diazepam but x10 as potent) for a year. By the end of that year I was taking 12mg in the morning and 12mg in the evening. Now I was VERY lucky in that my doctor knew me, knew my wife professionally and had studied benzodiazepines as part of his studies.

In my case it took 360mg of diazepam/day to stop withdrawal symptoms. People won't believe me but it's hardly something one would be proud to admit, it is? I had messed up my body SO MUCH that it took frankly hideous doses of diazepam just to survive.

It then took a full year for me to get down to nothing. Well, I say 'nothing' but when I reached 10mg, I just stopped. I presume my brain chemistry has been altered so for me, diazepam does NOTHING.

I am concerned that people are developing dependency on benzodiazepines, especially given that now their are examples 2 orders of magnitude MORE potent. Anxiety is common and benzos really do feel like a miracle drug. You don't take them to feel good, you take them just to manage.

So I am interested to know if I represent a unique case or have others got into trouble using RC benzos? I read flunitazolam is active at 0,1mg making it even more potent than brotizolam.

All and any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Haven't read the thread properly but I wanted to say that I appreciate the concern you've shown when I've talked about my own benzo issue. I only used diazepam, sometimes alprazolam and sometimes clonazepam and generally got what I was paying for, aside from a couple of instances. Coming off of them was weird - it wasn't hellish like coming off of heroin but there was this serious depersonalisation/derealisation which made me feel like I was tripping. I had a seizure and the docs didn't believe me - thought I was after benzos and sent me home with zopiclones even though I wanted them to keep me in. Thing is I didn't plan to stop, I just ran out of supply and money at the time and thought I'd cold turkey my way through everything I was on. My life seriously improved after getting through the first month or so. It was like being a teenager again, seeing everything for the first time. But you know what they are like: you can eat them like candy and I got some just to get through some difficult situations and told myself I'd only use them when needed, would keep them in the cupboard with the paracetamol and all that BS but they are just too useful if you have anxiety issues. Anyway, back on them and want to get off but dreading the seizure part - that scares me more than death. Had them before due to alcoholism and they really scare me. I've been stabbed a couple of times and I'd take that over a seizure any day.

All I can say is taper, keep a steady supply and eventually you'll get there if you try. I can't offer any advice beyond wishing you well and the best of luck. I came off suddenly and didn't even realise how bad my problem was and so I learnt the hard way just how important it is to taper.
 
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