Random MSN Gibberings LXXI: My kingdom for those headphones

[Myshkin]

unfortunately every time i've come into contact with gypsies they have justified the stereotypes.

Every time you've come into contact with one? You could've said hello to one this morning, been served by one in a shop, sat in lectures with one the other day and how would you know without asking? While we're at it, are we talking Romany gypsies, hippy new age travellers or what are known as 'tinkers' over here?

It's still stereotyping to me, however noble your stated intention to 'judge any future ones you meet on an individual basis'.

Prejudice is something that human beings tend towards partly naturally and partly because of conditioning. The latter is something which education and tolerance can help to break down.

Believing that stereotypes have any foundation other than popular prejudice is to take the first steps down the opposite road.

 

[Jabberwocky]

didn't say it wasn't a stereotype so not really sure what you're on about. essentially i said 'whilst i hold this stereotype i will try not to be prejudiced to any i meet.'

romany gypsies are the ones i've had most contact with and as their culture has such different dress, it is obvious.

stereotypes are just generalisations about people. you can't get anywhere without some generalisations. the important point is to be aware that they are such so you can still deal with individuals on an individual basis. not saying stereotypes are good, just that i can't realistically see how you can get anywhere without a few.

 

[Myshkin]

romany gypsies are the ones i've had most contact with and as their culture has such different dress, it is obvious.

So all Romany dress in tradtional costume then? Funnily enough I've never met one who does.

stereotypes are just generalisations about people. you can't get anywhere without some generalisations.

You can't get anywhere fostering prejudice without generalisations, no. As for any other endeavour, I fail to see where any generalisation (beyond the obvious and arbitrary likes of 'black people are black and white people are white') would help in any way. Yet you'll still judge people on an 'individual basis'?

Puzzling.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Just to be clear, when I'm making comments on this I am mainly talking about the "Irish Traveler" type gypsy You know, the bare-knuckle boxing, lead & copper thieving ones

These are the ones that seem to live a complete life of crime (only in my personal experience, but then that's all I've got to go on so you can't gun me down for that) as oppose to Romany gypsies who seem more like normal people who like to preserve their traditional nomadic lifestyle.

 

[SpecialK_]

Roman Gypsies are a completely different thing too to this Dale Farm situation. They can be really cunning when it comes to money. They pool in together every Sunday, are designated a church and go to it and beg outside it. Obviously taking advantage of the people there who are clearly more likely to donate some cash. I recall one time encountering one who looked really flustered, came up and asked someone for directions to a certain Church, was only after I realized what was going on. Pretty sure they all live together, go out to their destination with a target amount and deadline, return home, put it in together and then it's all divided to get them by. The Roman Gypsy children are really abused by their parents/carers here too, they are often forced to have one pair of clothing just to come across as less wealthy to try and earn some money.

stereotypes are just generalisations about people. you can't get anywhere without some generalisations. the important point is to be aware that they are such so you can still deal with individuals on an individual basis.

Exactly, in fact in ways stereotypes can be a good thing. Stereotypes are just a thing humans do to help us understand and picture a description better, although in ways this reason has been lost for some things, really they should be a beneficial thing. You just couldn't function and converse with others if any kind of stereotype frustrated you, it would just end up in you being a hypocrite.

Not to say there aren't any 'law abiding', friendly gypsies I'd be confident in saying that the majority fit into the 'stereotype' of what we perceive to be a gypsy.

 

[Jabberwocky]

commenting on human nature, not whether thats a good aspect or not.

there are a lot of useful generalisations about people. for example the ones used to predict peoples behaviour to ensure that sufficient utilities, foodstuffs, health care etc are available when needed. some of the ones that various therapies are predicated on would be another example.

 

[Myshkin]

there are a lot of useful generalisations about people. for example the ones used to predict peoples behaviour to ensure that sufficient utilities, foodstuffs, health care etc are available when needed. some of the ones that various therapies are predicated on would be another example.

So generalisations based on ethnicity and outside perceptions of cultures are exactly as 'useful' as the examples you've given? And I mean beyond stating that community (x) traditionally eats a lot of chicken soup.

If so, please explain how they're useful to anyone who isn't planning a pogrom or the like and I'll be less mystified.

 

[parttime crackhead]

SpecialK - I wonder if, living in NI, it is wrong for you to make generalisations about & stereotype the people seen in military uniform with balaclavas on?

 

[Jabberwocky]

easy- demographics round supermarkets to ensure proper stock control.

or, why you would call an ambulance apparently differs between cultures. in some cases this has wasted emergency services time, in others let people become more ill than they had to. by targeting these groups for education on best how to use emergency services, they benefit.

 

[Myshkin]

easy- demographics round supermarkets to ensure proper stock control.

I said 'aside from community (x) eats chicken soup'.

Though if a well-stocked supermarket pleases you more than social cohesion then I suppose I'm happy for you.

 

[Jabberwocky]

should have just left it at the example where LIVES ARE SAVED BY APPRECIATING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES.

silly me.

 

[joe90]

"ah missus can I have a sup o milk for the babba. Glug glug glug.. I thought it was for the baby u wanted it ? Ah go suck on my main vein.

Knock at the door ..mam there is tinkers at the door looking for spare clothes. Were not tinkers were travellers. Well Fuckoff and travel somewhere else then.


My experience growing up in Ireland not a word of it untrue.

Insert tut tut here

Ps "Tinker" is the Irish slang word for Pikey/Traveller

 

[Myshkin]

LIVES ARE SAVED BY APPRECIATING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES.

Headaches are saved by appreciating the position of the caps lock.

Cultural differences (as in real, proven ones as opposed to perceived) are part of my admittedly ambiguous chicken soup exception, just a more dramatic spin on your part with the mention of saving lives.

Show me one incidence of stereotyping being useful or desirable as opposed to collecting demographic data, which may or may not save lives depending on its accuracy and how it's applied.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Black people are more likely to be packing a gat, therefore I think twice before I pull a blade on one. That particular stereotype has probably saved my life countless times.

 

[Myshkin]

Oy vey...

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

So who's the arbiter of what's 'desirable' or 'undesirable'? And how do you propose stopping a culture in its tracks without persecuting individuals?

You're still stereotyping by making the association with crime every time. There's bad in every community.

I find the consumer society and mass media much more of a threat to my sense of wellbeing to be honest. When I get to the stage I can casually stereotype people and get so incensed over such then I'll hope for a change in the laws regarding voluntary euthanasia rather than planning.

Stopping gypsy 'culture' would be extremely simple. Remove their right to pitch up wherever they like, begin fining them for the damage they cause when they do so, and don't give them 10 years of court battles to fight with us over something they are clearly in the wrong over. Further to this the police could begin enforcing the laws on road tax on gypsies, and we could stop handing them out benefits by the bucket load when they don't have a fixed address. Basically all we have to do is pull the rug out from under them by not financing the way they live.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Headaches are saved by appreciating the position of the caps lock.

Cultural differences (as in real, proven ones as opposed to perceived) are part of my admittedly ambiguous chicken soup exception, just a more dramatic spin on your part with the mention of saving lives.

Show me one incidence of stereotyping being useful or desirable as opposed to collecting demographic data, which may or may not save lives depending on its accuracy and how it's applied.

How about if you're a homosexual, and you don't go skipping through Tower Hamlets in a tutu?

 

[Myshkin]

to fight with us over something they are clearly in the wrong over.

Who is 'us' and who decided what's 'wrong' in the first place? I certainly didn't.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that we've got a broad church with regard to opinion here, with me being at the more radical end which unfortunately isn't saying much in this example.

If that's the way things are then it's the way things are. Though I don't want to stand by the well for a second longer than I have to if there happens to be anybody about.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Who is 'us' and who decided what's 'wrong' in the first place? I certainly didn't.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that we've got a broad church with regard to opinion here, with me being at the more radical end which unfortunately isn't saying much in this example.

If that's the way things are then it's the way things are. Though I don't want to stand by the well for a second longer than I have to if there's anybody about.

Hmm, who decided it's wrong to lie, steal, cheat and physically assault people, whilst all the while taking money from them left right and center to subsidise your existence? I dunno. I just thought that was agiven. I don't think anyone would be against a merry bunch of travellers who went around the country, didn't leave a mess, and paid for it out of their own pocket. I think we call these people 'The Caravan Club'.

 

[Myshkin]

I think we call these people 'The Caravan Club'.

Stereotyping again? I know some right nasty CC members. You wouldn't believe it. Proper thieves.