Quitting phenibut journal

negrogesic said:
***note, I must have been on that higher dose for a fair amount of time. I dropped from that mistaken dose of 4,130mg to 3,975mg last night and feeling like shit today, dissociated, anxious as hell, pins and needles. This sucks. My guess is that i was taking around 250mg more than i thought for a good 10 days. I was hoping it was less.
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Well, that truly sucks but at least you caught the mistake in weight and can go from there. Bit of a setback but you were going slow anyway so whats a week do really anyway. All that matters is that you are still tapering and even if it takes a year so what? Slow and easy will win the race eventually.

If it's any consolation....your blog dissuaded me from ordering any. I was going to try it and reduce my kratom dosage but decided against it. So you helped me decide not to ever try it.
 
Down to 3,950mg, could barely sleep. Thats down around 200mg in just a few days, yet im technically down only 25mg down from where i originally started. I am checking the accuracy of the scale before each use. You'd think I'd have learned to do this each and every time.

I've taken @btechlc advice and tried to integrate some cardio into my routine (i never do cardio, ever). I only do it for around 15 minutes but I do it at extreme intensity. I use the rowing machine to accomplish it (at max resistance because I still want to recruit my muscles). I'm not accustomed to it so my lungs have been on fire afterwards. It hasn't helped with the sleep yet but it has made me hungrier which is great.
 
Pumpkin2021 said:
Well, that truly sucks but at least you caught the mistake in weight and can go from there. Bit of a setback but you were going slow anyway so whats a week do really anyway. All that matters is that you are still tapering and even if it takes a year so what? Slow and easy will win the race eventually.

If it's any consolation....your blog dissuaded me from ordering any. I was going to try it and reduce my kratom dosage but decided against it. So you helped me decide not to ever try it.
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Glad i dissuaded you. If you're looking from something to help you reduce kratom try black seed oil, it is surprisingly effective.

I don't find phenibut addictive in the sense I find other drugs addictive (at least in the psychological sense). I don't crave or desire it. I don't even feel the phenibut after taking it. But the physical dependence it produces is unmistakable.
 
negrogesic said:
Glad i dissuaded you. If you're looking from something to help you reduce kratom try black seed oil, it is surprisingly effective.

I don't find phenibut addictive in the sense I find other drugs addictive (at least in the psychological sense). I don't crave or desire it. I don't even feel the phenibut after taking it. But the physical dependence it produces is unmistakable.
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That's the property of it that clinched it for me. The physical dependence. I can't taper to save my soul and if I had gotten too far down that particular rabbit hole I would have had to CT. Or just keep using it. Funny...I had the will to CT all of my addictions....and stay off of them....but I could never taper anything.

I actually don't want to reduce my kratom intake anymore. I am happy with my schedule and amount of grams I ingest. I was going to substitute my nightly kratom with phenibut but your blog made it real and not so appealing anymore. Keep on truckin' and tapering and it's great to catch up with ya.
 
btechlc said:
i dont know enough about phenibut to give much advice but from the 20 or so grams of experimentation I have done and reading on BL the does / response curve of this drug seems to be super variable among people??

some people will feel nothing on 2grams and others will have euphoria, others will vomit?

I am very much a GABA guy and like drinking and benzos, but I never seemed to find the right dose for phenibut it was either nothing or vomiting (normally have a good stomach drug wise)
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Yeah i never got anything positive from phenibut, but it did help me sleep after cold turkeying gabapentin.

The only gabapentinoid I felt something nice from was high dose pregabalin. In some ways a high dose of gabapentinoid is more euphoric than benzos, although they are very different.

Occasionally I'll get some hypomania from phenibut that makes music sound particularly nice but thats about it really.

Its possible phenibut may be scheduled in the near future. I only have 1.25 kilograms (sounds like alot but since its dosed in grams, it's not).
 
When you get a few minutes , let us know how it's going. It's been almost a week since your last update and am hoping everything is still going well with the taper. Hope the other areas of your life are going good too.
 
Pumpkin2021 said:
When you get a few minutes , let us know how it's going. It's been almost a week since your last update and am hoping everything is still going well with the taper. Hope the other areas of your life are going good too.
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Thank you. It has not been so great. This adjustment has been rough. Essentially, last thursday or so i dropped a quarter gram overnight due to the scale issue, and had some trouble adjusting. Seem to be stabilizing though. Am at 3,940mg and am about ready to start dropping again more steadily. Still not sleeping well but its gotten better.

I check the scale for accuracy each and everytime i use it now 😫
 
Gets out nightstick and raps on the door 3 times. Sir @negrogesic we are here because we need to see your I.D. and we need a report on your tapering progress. You have 6 hours to comply with the request. :watpepe:
 
Sorry!!! I get notifications anyone posts new threads in Other Drugs and Basic Drug Discussion and there's been alot of posting lately, haven't made it down the list.

3,928mg, it is not going well. I've had too much going on to take the plunge and have not found that renewed vigor I was looking for.

That scale fuck up really had me running off whimpering with my tail between my legs. Largely because the resulting 1 day 200mg drop gave me a strong taste of phenibut withdrawal (and it didn't taste good).

I need to find that renewed vigor however because I'm down to my last 1,000 gram (1kg) container of it.
 
No whimpering NG, look at the bright side, you were only weighing phenibut and not some super sensitive opiate or benzo. An honest mistake that could have costed more than aggravation.

I notice the struggle. And I know it was gabapentin or pregabalin that you started using phenibut when you stopped to get sleep. i had some phenibut for the first time yesterday in a long time in place of my gabapentin for my once a week indulge. Phenibut mgs for mgs seems a lot stronger and 1.5 gr of phenibut had me pass out at 7:00PM till midnite simply watching TV. Then I went back to sleep for another 8 hours. So phenibut is strong, I am use to 1800-2400 mgs of gabapentin. And I know it seems that a person can go in circles but sometimes a person needs to outsmart the outsmarting. :) Since gabapentin is weaker maybe using that to taper could get some faster movement? (I am not rushing you I just know you seem to really want off). Shuffle drugs. But a part of me thinks although related that phenibut and gabapentin are different drugs with some different actions. I don't think phenibut helps with nerve pain. (then again I am not convinced the normal meds are either)

For someone that has given up benzos (probably not easy at all) and brushed off kratom like a mosquitoe on his shoulder (probably easier) this is a good reference as to how additive phenibut can be. I really wish I had some advice to help move you forward. I do know slow and steady wins. Keep moving in one diretion and eventually you make the journey. You know what they say, it starts with the first step and you did that already. You'll tackle this bull. If I can think of anything other than perseverance I will post. But perseverance is the main ingredient no matter what our scales do.

But yeah, 1.5 gr of phenibut first had me thinking I was not feeling much to passing out. I took a few tokes of weed and just closed my eyes for a minute. lol
Takes time to hit and does feel a little different than gabapentin of pregabalin. I will mention this phenibut was purchased in 2014 so can say it retains potency. I had more of a dopamine rebound than gabapentin but I get it with that too Had a lot of energy today. But 24 hours later I could swear I still feel it a little.
 
JackARoe said:
No whimpering NG, look at the bright side, you were only weighing phenibut and not some super sensitive opiate or benzo. An honest mistake that could have costed more than aggravation.

I notice the struggle. And I know it was gabapentin or pregabalin that you started using phenibut when you stopped to get sleep. i had some phenibut for the first time yesterday in a long time in place of my gabapentin for my once a week indulge. Phenibut mgs for mgs seems a lot stronger and 1.5 gr of phenibut had me pass out at 7:00PM till midnite simply watching TV. Then I went back to sleep for another 8 hours. So phenibut is strong, I am use to 1800-2400 mgs of gabapentin. And I know it seems that a person can go in circles but sometimes a person needs to outsmart the outsmarting. :) Since gabapentin is weaker maybe using that to taper could get some faster movement? (I am not rushing you I just know you seem to really want off). Shuffle drugs. But a part of me thinks although related that phenibut and gabapentin are different drugs with some different actions. I don't think phenibut helps with nerve pain. (then again I am not convinced the normal meds are either)

For someone that has given up benzos (probably not easy at all) and brushed off kratom like a mosquitoe on his shoulder (probably easier) this is a good reference as to how additive phenibut can be. I really wish I had some advice to help move you forward. I do know slow and steady wins. Keep moving in one diretion and eventually you make the journey. You know what they say, it starts with the first step and you did that already. You'll tackle this bull. If I can think of anything other than perseverance I will post. But perseverance is the main ingredient no matter what our scales do.

But yeah, 1.5 gr of phenibut first had me thinking I was not feeling much to passing out. I took a few tokes of weed and just closed my eyes for a minute. lol
Takes time to hit and does feel a little different than gabapentin of pregabalin. I will mention this phenibut was purchased in 2014 so can say it retains potency. I had more of a dopamine rebound than gabapentin but I get it with that too Had a lot of energy today. But 24 hours later I could swear I still feel it a little.
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I think that with regard to GABAergic drugs, past experiences overcoming prior addictions doesn't make one better at it but rather worse at it. I can't imagine going through my past benzo tapers now, I think I'd handle it worse.

Opioids seem to be a different story in that I have sort of become an expert at the withdrawal process. Not the case with GABAergics.

Yes ultimately I may need to consider switching to gabapentin. I think I'd do better tapering with pills, despite it being a less precise method.

Interestingly, I can't really feel the phenibut, even at nearly 4g. But I sure can feel its absence when i go down even a relatively small amount.
 
Pumpkin2021 said:
Did you get discouraged and stop tapering
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Kind of (i very much appreciate you asking. I am at 3,930mg and have been stuck there for a number of weeks. I bought a new scale that works well, so at this point its up to me. I have as of late engaged in some slightly bad behavior (light opioid use) in response to the stressors of this time of year which inevitably increase this sort of behavior. Have abstained from benzos for a long time now so am feeling pretty stable but i know i must pay the price for the opioid use.

I now am down to my last kilogram (1000 grams) so i need to get serious about this. I don't intend on ordering any more phenibut. Yet at my current dose that lasts 256 days

Of course im blaming my failures on that scale, which is actually true in some ways. But there is more to that story of course. Yet i was doing so well.

The phenibut must be impacting me tremendously at this dose. I remember how awake and alive i felt after quiting lyrica and gabapentin (phenibut's close relatives). It's what got me to decide to go to graduate school. In any event these gabapentinoids are ambition killing drugs. I feel trapped however frankly. And the limiting factor is sleep.

I bought a rowing machine that comes soon. Im hoping i can exhaust myself on that thing to assist in the sleep deficits.
 
Ok guys, I am intent on getting back on track here.

Essentially after my scale debacle and then the holidays, i had sort of paused the tapering process. But i am still determined to get off this stuff and intend on getting back on a schedule.

I picked up a small kratom habit over the holidays which I will kick in perhaps a week. After i recover from that (which itself takes a week) I plan to start back on schedule. I have also ordered some support medicine (clonidine and quetiapine) from india which should be here in a few weeks.

When i start back i will make note of it. I do appreciate everyone's help here and apologize for the previous failure, but I am truly intent on doing this. I also know I am capable. However unlike opioid withdrawal, which in some ways gets easier with practice, GABAergic withdrawal never really gets much easier (if anything the opposite). But i am still intent on getting off of this nasty stuff.
 
My phenibut taper assistants from India landed today:



I will begin soon, as i am currently recovering from a presumptive COVID-19 infection (the only symptom of which has been on the neurological spectrum, manifesting as a sort of vestibular neuritis-like symptom set that not surprisingly feels exactly like the vestibular side-effects I got from shot #2 of the moderna vaccine). Essentially that means ive been dizzy for weeks but it seems to be fading away. Early last year, i was dizzy for 6 weeks following moderna shot #2. And once again, a month ago, after being exposed to some people who had it COVID-19, all of a sudden that moderna side-effect type vertigo came back. Pretty sure i contracted the omicron variant. In any event, I'll almost certainly be better in a week or two at which time I'll start the phenibut purge.

I'm considering cutting my dose of phenibut in half and taking 25mg of baclofen with it, just to see what happens.

The plus side in this whole phenibut situation is that like, unlike benzos or even pregabalin, i have no psychological dependency on phenibut since I perceive little effect from phenibut. I take it once a day at night and never any point think, "ahhh, relief, there's the phenibut kicking it". Sometimes i feel a little manic 4-5 hours later, but it definitely doesn't feel enjoyable like pregabalin. So at least i have that going in this. What i have going against me here however is a pretty nasty physical dependence on this shit. While i perceive little in terms of its effects after taking it, the effects from not taking it (or taking less) are a real horror show, that gabapentinoid insomnia is intense, worse than benzo insomnia (but with less daytime anxiety).

In anycase that's what the indian care package is for.
 
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negrogesic said:
My phenibut taper assistants from India landed today:



I will begin soon, as i am currently recovering from a presumptive COVID-19 infection (the only symptom of which has been on the neurological spectrum, manifesting as a sort of vestibular neuritis-like symptom set that not surprisingly feels exactly like the vestibular side-effects I got from shot #2 of the moderna vaccine). Essentially that means ive been dizzy for weeks but it seems to be fading away. Early last year, i was dizzy for 6 weeks following moderna shot #2. And once again, a month ago, after being exposed to some people who had it COVID-19, all of a sudden that moderna side-effect type vertigo came back. Pretty sure i contracted the omicron variant. In any event, I'll almost certainly be better in a week or two at which time I'll start the phenibut purge.

I'm considering cutting my dose of phenibut in half and taking 25mg of baclofen with it, just to see what happens.

The plus side in this whole phenibut situation is that like, unlike benzos or even pregabalin, i have no psychological dependency on phenibut since I perceive little effect from phenibut. I take it once a day at night and never any point think, "ahhh, relief, there's the phenibut kicking it". Sometimes i feel a little manic 4-5 hours later, but it definitely doesn't feel enjoyable like pregabalin. So at least i have that going in this. What i have going against me here however is a pretty nasty physical dependence on this shit. While i perceive little in terms of its effects after taking it, the effects from not taking it (or taking less) are a real horror show, that gabapentinoid insomnia is intense, worse than benzo insomnia (but with less daytime anxiety).

In anycase that's what the indian care package is for.
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Best of luck to you. Hope shortly that you report back and say it is working out well for you.
 
Save for some sort of bizarre extenuating circumstances i begin the process next Monday evening, the 14th. Valentine's Day coincidentally.

Goodbye phenibut, i wish i could say it has been nice but it hasn't, i only needed you to get over a different drug and i only kept you around for long because you weren't that much of an inconvenience, but i have a sneaking suspicion you're a little more insidious (and impairing) of a drug than I've given you credit for, so this it 🫂
 
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