Quitting phenibut journal

negrogesic said:
Save for some sort of bizarre extenuating circumstances i begin the process next Monday evening, the 14th. Valentine's Day coincidentally.

Goodbye phenibut, i wish i could say it has been nice but it hasn't, i only needed you to get over a different drug and i only kept you around for long because you weren't that much of an inconvenience, but i have a sneaking suspicion you're a little more insidious (and impairing) of a drug than I've given you credit for, so this it 🫂
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Best of luck. Keep us posted.
 
Day 3, 2/16/2022: 3950mg [-5mg]


I feel like perhaps next week I want to say cut the dose of phenibut in half and try to account for it with some baclofen. It wouldn't be permanent, I just want to see what it feels like. Although now that I say this outloud I realize how foolish sounding that idea is, especially since I know I won't be able to actually stay at 1/2 my dose phenibut for very long. I know if someone made a post and proposed such a thing I'd shoot it down for a bunch of reasons. Why shock the system if you don't plan on continuing on in that fashion (ie half dose phenibut plus baclofen combination).

I suppose my hope would be I'd feel like, "wow you see how great it feels to have less of this junk in your system" and somehow I'd switch back to my full dose and yet feel so motivated by how great I felt that I'd taper faster and more enthusiastically. In reality that is a terrible idea, I'm bound to traumatize myself if I experience severe withdrawal (especially if those indian baclofen are weak) and then I've essentially thrown a wrench into this whole tapering process, but probably worse than what occurred when my scale was giving me incorrect readouts.

Nevermind then, slow and steady, onwards and upwards. See that's the utility with this journal (among others), helps me to evaluate my logic.

The only way I got off of tremendous amounts of benzos and methadone was by slowly tapering. That will be the key here too. Again I try to comfort myself through the notion that I never liked phenibut to begin with, so my comparison it should at least be easier to dispatch on the psychological frontier (since I actually enjoyed the effects of benzos and opioids).

I really am curious what it feels like to be on much less of this stuff, but giant dose decreases of gabaergic compounds should be avoided. While baclofen stops any medically dangerous phenibut withdrawal symptoms from occuring since it is a strong GABA-B agonist, it doesn't have the same calcium channel blocking properties that has phenibut has. Meaning it could get uncomfortable. More likely to spook me than motivate me.
 
Day 5: 3945mg* [-15mg]

*This will be my dose tonight. Don't feel much of anything. Am saving the sleep meds until i need them.

I wonder if it would be better to be taking this stuff in split doses instead of all at once at night.
 
negrogesic said:
taking this stuff
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The phenibut or the comfort meds?
How are you "feeling", btw? I know ya have meds but how are you feeling from the drops in doses of phenibut? Have you had any serious WD symptoms since executing the taper?
Curious as (thankfully) I haven't endured any wds from phenibut (that I know of) since my start in 2018... damn... that's getting on 4 years. Man where'd the time go?
Sorry ya have to go through this ordeal. Having something in so control and not much ya can do about it other that chip away at it for a year or more sucks.
So... baclofen or no other substance can negate wd from phenibut outright? Gabapentin? Pregabalin? Just thinking it would be awesome if there was a way to "transfer" the phenibut dependence to a substance that would be easier and faster re tapering.
 
6am-64-14m said:
The phenibut or the comfort meds?
How are you "feeling", btw? I know ya have meds but how are you feeling from the drops in doses of phenibut? Have you had any serious WD symptoms since executing the taper?
Curious as (thankfully) I haven't endured any wds from phenibut (that I know of) since my start in 2018... damn... that's getting on 4 years. Man where'd the time go?
Sorry ya have to go through this ordeal. Having something in so control and not much ya can do about it other that chip away at it for a year or more sucks.
So... baclofen or no other substance can negate wd from phenibut outright? Gabapentin? Pregabalin? Just thinking it would be awesome if there was a way to "transfer" the phenibut dependence to a substance that would be easier and faster re tapering.
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I haven't taken the comfort meds yet.

Also haven't felt much in terms of phenibut withdrawal during this taper yet because i just scratched the surface. This process is sort of like getting into a cold swimming pool, you have slowly warm up to it.

Baclofen can stop the medically dangerous and psychotic aspects of severe phenibut withdrawal since it is a strong GABA-B agonist, but it doesn't have the same calcium channel blocking effects as phenibut so the symptom coverage isn't complete. Gabapentin is the reverse, it has the calcium channel blocking effects as phenibut but lacks GABA-B affinity. Phenibut is basically a baclofen + gabapentin hybrid interms of its effects.

I probably will at some point switch to baclofen or gabapentin entirely.
 
negrogesic said:
I wonder if it would be better to be taking this stuff in split doses instead of all at once at night.
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I think phenibuts halflife is dose dependent? Not sure if this is actually true or if it applies to such a dose as ~4g.
Also doesn't phenibut hit other than the "normal" gaba receptors at higher doses? Like baclofen does... not sure if it's gaba-a or -b. Honestly I am still confused about this substance (phenibut) and can only base my "belief" on what I read and experience (which is more reading than experience as I never went above 1.75g as it just made me tired as hell).
Sorry to bombard with questions but after taking it for 4 yrs I still cannot say wtf this powder is only how it makes me react at certain doses.
Reason why I ask is because if ya cut the dose in two this may necessitate the use of baclofen or other as maybe the lower dose will not hit on the gaba a or b as it may at higher doses. IDK just thinking again and it can be a pain.
Best always
 
6am-64-14m said:
Reason why I ask is because if ya cut the dose in two this may necessitate the use of baclofen or other as maybe the lower dose will not hit on the gaba a or b as it may at higher doses. IDK just thinking again and it can be a pain.
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Interestingly enough I never even thought of that, because you are right, phenibut supposedly activates GABA-A receptors at high dose. So course the question that brings up would be, if I were to cut the dose in half for the purpose of splitting it 2x a day, would GABA-A no longer get get activated? I don't know, I've actually never thought of that or considered it 🤔

Just another reason this phenibut detox journal thing is handy, a group is always wiser and more perceptive than any one individual (even someone like me who thinks he's considered all the variables -- but is clever enough to know he probably hasn't 🤣)
 
Day 11: 3940mg [-20mg*]

* note this is probably a bigger number as the starting dose was closer to 3970mg but i will stick with this numbering system

I finally started to feel the change, been having a harder time lately. I forgot that it takes a number or days to feel the difference. Some weird day time depression has been manifesting.

I also notice a big difference based on the degree to which i eat before or after. Currently I take the phenibut all in one dose around an hour after eating dinner. I often don't finish my dinner because I'm afraid my stomach contents will be too full and will alter the effect. And when I say alter the effect I don't really mean the perceived effects, what I mean is it will alternate how bad I feel the next day due to withdrawal symptoms from not having enough phenibut in my system.

So I will usually eat lightly at say 7pm, wait 1.5 hours, and take the phenibut. Then I'll finish my dinner at say 10pm.

I think this practice is fucking me up. I notice the the type of food effects it. Seems as though greasy food is better, provided I wait long enough after. Who knows.

Very frustrating and a pretty horrible way to live, in a perpetual phenibut hangover/phenibut interdose withdrawal state.

I think I need to dose this stuff in divided doses 2X a day, but I'm not sure how to make that switch without shocking my system.
 
negrogesic said:
Seems as though greasy food is better
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I eat peanut butter if I do not eat early breakfast when I dose any gabapentinoid. Started this with gabapentin and just stayed true to it with pregab and phenibut. Love peanut butter anyway. My little (big) girl budah never passes it up, either. She only gets to clean the spoon and it is very little. I digress.
And honestly, I have never had any food change up the effects. Not the timing or the feelings. Before, during and after dosing. Three out of the four years on this has been eat what and when as it's already hassle trying to dose every three days (I forget sometimes) can't be bothered with eating patterns, too.
About breaking the dose up: There is backup meds at hand and it shouldn't take too long for them to take effect, is this correct? Sounds like you are going to do it sooner or later anyway I'm going to say go for it. Safety net is in place if ya trust it. Never know... it may not be too bad. Why do you want to split the dose? Mind me askin'?
Depression is fucked up, man. I find myself going in and out of it but out of it more since working. Lately wds have been on my mind and think it is the phenibut and pregab as when dosing phenibut lately there is 100 or 200mg pregab added. Wasn't like this before adding pregab so.... If there is nothing that actually causes the depression looking for the source is my next move. We gonna go up and down I get it but yeah... that feeling of being worthless, a huge letdown and wanting to just leave the world stage can fuck up some days/weeks/years. Ya know once noticing that the source of depression is something in my control (drugs) it seems to kinda fade away. Just looking back at it in the future and making an observation.
I'm rootin on ya. For reals. lol This is something that will help with my consumption with phenibut as wds suck and really don't wanna go trough them again - or taper a substance forever and a day to not bump my head.
:heart7:
 
Well, tonight I dropped an entire gram to 2,935mg a sort of experiment.

I was down to 3,935mg last night and I felt pretty bad this afternoon. So an idea came to me: perhaps I should take half of one of those 25mg baclofen tablets I ordered from India to see if they even work (ie aren't counterfeit). My logic was that if they are legit, and if I truly was experiencing phenibut withdrawal, I would feel better. After about an hour, I felt better than I've felt in a long time. Sort of back to normal. Felt like I could breathe.

In any event, as an experiment of sorts just now I dropped an entire gram of phenibut in one night, more than 1/4 quarter my entire dose. Will augment with balcofen. Curious what will happen. I probably wouldn't recommend such a thing to someone else, I've shot down this very idea in this journal.
 
Seems like so far so good, I didn't sleep so great but also not terribly, despite taking an entire gram less. I supplemented it with 25mg of baclofen before bed.

It takes a while however to feel phenibut withdrawal. Problem is I only have 60 tablets of that Indian baclofen. Just ordered $150 more (180 tablets), however it takes around a month to get here. The baclofen is short acting so needs to be dosed multiple times a day.

Quite an aggressive move this was, to cut my dose by more than 25% in a single night. I sort of just wanted to see what it felt like. The issue is I don't have enough baclofen to follow through rjght now unless I manage to obtain a prescription. I could perhaps substitute in f-phenibut which is very baclofen-like 🤔
 
Well I've stuck to my giant 1000mg phenibut decrease that I did last week. I'm still in shock that I was able to go down 25% in one day without getting very ill. I have been substituting in some baclofen and I feel great. I have been hit with some unusual dizziness but perhaps it is from that recent COVID infection.

My girlfriend sees the change, says I seem brighter and more positive. Interestingly, my anxiety has significantly decreased instead of increased. I can't believe I've been poisoning myself with this shit for 6 years 😔

Once i get the rest of my baclofen I will make more cuts. Again, I am still in shock that i am now in the 2 gram range (2.935g). I thought it would be many months before I'd to this point.

I do need to proceed with caution. GABAergic withdrawal can sometimes produce an insidious type of psychosis that sneaks up on you in a manner where you don't even realize its occurring given the degree of disorientation. This has happened to me with benzo withdrawal. I doubt that would happen to me with phenibut withdrawal, but I did once read about a guy who, during phenibut withdrawal, became psychotic/manic and stabbed himself in the neck repeatedly with a pen (he died from this, the story was told by his girlfriend).
 
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wonder if ya can drop further? not suggesting it but if the g drop made some joy return then....
never had baclofen wds... wonder what that would be like? i imagine it to be a *thing, yeah?
happy that there has returned a little light to your world. priceless ime. ya post is "lighter" it seems. eating and everything without issues? gain or lose a few pounds?
 
negrogesic said:
Well I've stuck to my giant 1000mg phenibut decrease that I did last week. I'm still in shock that I was able to go down 25% in one day without getting very ill. I have been substituting in some baclofen and I feel great. I have been hit with some unusual dizziness but perhaps it is from that recent COVID infection.

My girlfriend sees the change, says I seem brighter and more positive. Interestingly, my anxiety has significantly decreased instead of increased. I can't believe I've been poisoning myself with this shit for 6 years 😔

Once i get the rest of my baclofen I will make more cuts. Again, I am still in shock that i am now in the 2 gram range (2.935g). I thought it would be many months before I'd to this point.

I do need to proceed with caution. GABAergic withdrawal can sometimes produce an insidious type of psychosis that sneaks up on you in a manner where you don't even realize its occurring given the degree of disorientation. This has happened to me with benzo withdrawal. I doubt that would happen to me with phenibut withdrawal, but I did once read about a guy who, during phenibut withdrawal, became psychotic/manic and stabbed himself in the neck repeatedly with a pen (he died from this, the story was told by his girlfriend).
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Really glad to see that you are still reducing. Seems you are doing fairly well and not suffering much at all. Glad to hear it.
 
Well im still at 2.395g (the 25% drop).

I barely take any baclofen during the day -- yesterday i took no baclofen during the day, and then only 1 tablet at night.

The "high" or "fresh feeling" from the decrease has worn off. I want to go down more.

6am-64-14m said:
wonder if ya can drop further? not suggesting it but if the g drop made some joy return then....
never had baclofen wds... wonder what that would be like? i imagine it to be a *thing, yeah?
happy that there has returned a little light to your world. priceless ime. ya post is "lighter" it seems. eating and everything without issues? gain or lose a few pounds?
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I want to go down another half a gram asap. No changes in weight etc.

I actually think i could probably stop the phenibut all together and switch to baclofen. Baclofen seems much easier to taper. My level of hope of getting off this stuff has skyrocketed given how easily I handled that 25% dose cut.
 
negrogesic said:
Well im still at 2.395g (the 25% drop).

I barely take any baclofen during the day -- yesterday i took no baclofen during the day, and then only 1 tablet at night.

The "high" or "fresh feeling" from the decrease has worn off. I want to go down more.



I want to go down another half a gram asap. No changes in weight etc.

I actually think i could probably stop the phenibut all together and switch to baclofen. Baclofen seems much easier to taper. My level of hope of getting off this stuff has skyrocketed given how easily I handled that 25% dose cut.
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What doses of baclofen are you taking? My psych stopped filling my script for it, probably since I'm already on gabapentin and now pregabalin. I pretty much had to beg him to get it in the first place. I realized how much I appreciated baclofen when I was in the psych ward in the midst of horrific benzo withdrawal. It was the only thing that could stop my shakes. Still is, although my shakes have gotten a lot better now that I don't use benzos at all.

He only prescribed me like 20mg a day. Which definitely helped, but didn't seem to be enough for me to really notice it. Probably mostly due to tolerance.
 
I had a bit of a scare recently thinking I was reactly strangely to the baclofen and/or was going through delayed phenibut withdrawal. Was hit with some heavy anxiety reminiscent of benzo withdrawal, along with a touch of paranoia. To my surprise more baclofen didn't help, so it must have been from sampling the poppy pods I've been growing.

In any event, the after glow from that large phenibut dose drop has warn off mostly and I am ready to go down more.

Next Tuesday evening 4/12/2022 I plan to drop my current 2.935g phenibut dose by a large amount. I am thinking either 500mg or an entire 1,000mg. I am leaning more heavily on the 1,000mg but not sure if it will get me into hot water. That would constitute a 34% drop overnight. I would never advise anyone attempt such a thing, but my last 1,000mg drop was great. Of course in terms of percentage change, this next 1,000mg drop would constitute a much larger drop.
 
Last night I dropped by about another entire gram, from 2.935 to 2.000g, a decline of near 33%. If I am able to stick it out I will be at around half the dose i started.

I didn't sleep well as one would expect, went to bed at 1am and woke up at around 5:45am feeling a little tense, but also at the same time, lighter and more like myself. Feels great to get off this shit, and if anything I feel like I have less anxiety instead of more.

However, I would never recommend anyone make such drastic dose reductions like this given the danger of doing so. It is quite a shock to the system and runs the risk of provoking GABAergic withdrawal delirium/psychosis. Based on clinical case reports of inpatient phenibut withdrawal, what seems to set it apart from severe benzo withdrawal is that severe phenibut withdrawal seems to be more associated with what's known as "excited delirium" (or "agitated delirium"), where the patient becomes aggressive and must be restrained. This can happen with benzodiazepine withdrawal but many times those in very severe benzodiazepine withdrawal do the opposite and go into a sort of catatonic state.

In any event, for anyone reading this and looking to get off of phenibut themselves, never decrease a GABAergic by more than 10% in a single dose. GABAergic delirium/psychosis can sneak up on you without noticing it, and phenibut withdrawal in particular seems to have a propensity to cause a particularly agitated and violent state associated with self-harm and violent behaviors to others.

For instance, there was that case of the guy who went down on phenibut too quickly and, without any prior history of violent behavior, suddenly attacked his girlfriend. She called the paramedics but before they could arrive he stabbed himself to death in the neck with a pen. Additionally, much of the literature regarding the treatment of phenibut withdrawal in a hospital setting describes the need to use physical restraints.

Again just want to make it clear to any phenibut addicts who may read this in the future that what I am describing is potentially dangerous, especially if you have been on phenibut for a long time (it has been 7 years now for me 🤯). I don't anticipate any problems myself, I have baclofen but I am going to see how little of it I can get by without. Also worth noting that I am, sadly, quite experienced with GABAergic withdrawal, having quit benzos and pregabalin/gabapentin in the past. Though in reality, I never quit pregabalin/gabapentin entirely, i made it two months until I caved and started on phenibut due to the soul crushing insomnia during those two months. In that regard, I've been on gabapentinoids for over 10 years, save for those two months without.

Wish me luck. This is far more progress than I expected to make by this point. I feel great honestly. Just need to keep a close watch on myself, since GABAergic withdrawal psychosis is very sneaky and hard to separate from reality. I don't think I'm particularly suspectible to gabapentinoid-type withdrawal induced psychosis, but I know from past experience that I am very suspectible to benzodiazepine withdrawal psychosis.
 
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