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Quick question about meditation..

rickolasnice

rickolasnice

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Apr 19, 2007
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So my friend got me into meditation (I'm shit but I'm trying)..

He told me the aim is to clear your mind of thoughts.. Which is what I've been practising..

But I just read this:

1. Mindfulness, also called ‘Vipassana’, comes from the Buddhist tradition. I’d say mindfulness is the most popular form of meditation in the western world. It’s all about ‘being present’, letting your mind run, and accepting whatever thoughts come up, while practicing detachment from each thought.
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I'm probably being a sleep deprived moron but are they not completely different?
 
Meditation is like God.. everyone has a different conception of what it is. It depends on what you want to get out of it too.

If you just want to relax and de-stress then breathe deeply and constantly, watch it, and pretty soon you'll be chilled out. Or resonate a sound like Ohm by humming it, and again you'll get chilled out.

If you want to make progress in your daily life then you want to re-run the film of your life so to speak, to see what negative events have happened to you, and contemplate them.. and let them go. To me this is the real meditation, not de-stressing, though that has its place for sure. This is similar to vipassana, except you're actively trying to figure yourself out as opposed to just watching it passively and not identifying.

As for clearing your mind of thoughts, don't even bother.. it can't be done, and anyone who tells you they are doing it is lying to themselves. You can't start or stop thoughts just by willing it to be so. It is a relentless stream that will only ever be stopped during a mystical experience. What your friend is most likely doing is just trying to still the mind, the reduce the turbulence, which is fine and good to try. And whilst it may feel like there is no thought I guarantee you there is.. from various parts of the body, from your mind, and from external influences too.

Check out this diagram for the two types of meditation that are relevant for growth: http://tatfoundation.org/forum2001-02.htm#2
 
I am very new to meditation myself. I have never been able to completely stop my thoughts from occurring. Instead I try just simply observing the thoughts without attaching any emotions to them. By doing this you allow yourself to let go of the things that are putting stress on your mind. This allows your mind to wonder and make connections with yourself and all else without having to actually try. Thoughts seem to come naturally, but they dont have to control us. This has been my personal experience and understanding thus far. I have much to learn.
 
When i first started i could go 5 seconds max without thinking any meaningful thought..

I can now do a lot longer. I definitely think it's possible to stop your thoughts.. You only have to stop them formulating / meaning something..

I started by thinking something meaningless like sounding (in my head) "eerrrrr" if my mind started trying to think (i think almost completely in sentences / words, apparently).. but then realised the flicking my eyes in any direction helps too..

I understand that by doing this I am not completely without thought but they're definitely not in the same category as the internal voice / day dream type.

I honestly can't comprehend how you could think something but attach no emotion / meaning behind it.. surely you are tricking yourself into believing that is the case?

As for re-running my life to pin point mistakes and learn from them.. I do that anyway? That's part of my day to day thinking (if i have done something i feel i shouldn't have etc)
 
I haven't practiced meditation properly for a long time, but when i was i always found it useful to have headphones in with some very deep ambient music playing; this relaxed my thoughts and helped me focus on the nothingness within me.. later on i practiced without music, but in the beginning it can be a tremendous help to get familiar with allowing yourself to sink deeper and deeper.

Personally my experience with meditation was always intense, the more i allowed myself to let go the deeper i would go.. i would feel a physical sensation running up my body towards my head.. tingles through my body, experiencing bright light behind my eyes and the most orgasmic explosion of energy? in my head.. it was always too intense for me to maintain and i would break my concentration and fall out of it.. it honestly felt like been charged up to a point that i was incapable of sustaining.
 
Listening to a 7hz tone is supposed to help.. according to someone who probably doesn't know what he's talking about..

But it definitely helps drown out noise :D
 
^What speakers can produce 7 Hz? Maybe you mean the trick of using a different tone in each ear which are different by 7 Hz (like 40 and 47 Hz) - the beat frequency between these is produced inside your head. Or is it just a series of clicks you're listening to?
 
The idea is to be aware that the thoughts are there but not to let them control your other thoughts/actions. A lot of times for me obsessive thoughts can take over and rerun over and over leading to even more damaging thoughts\ideas and creating problems that did not otherwise exist. It is not a trick that your playing on yourself it is a realization that only you control your thoughts and the way you feel creating your own reality by choice. This also really helps with silencing the ego.

Again that is my take on it so far. I guess it would depend on what reason you have for picking up meditation in the first place and what you expect to gain from it.
 
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they're not different at all because once you've learned to just let thoughts run without influencing them they'll naturally become less and less pressing, thus clearing your mind.

you don't have to try and stop your mind, that sure as hell won't work.
 
rickolasnice said:
I honestly can't comprehend how you could think something but attach no emotion / meaning behind it.. surely you are tricking yourself into believing that is the case?
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you are not your thoughts.
most thoughts that I do not consciously generate (IMHO, IME atleast) are just random shit/associations made by your brain.
if I had to look for a meaning in each thought I have I would be mad by now.
 
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-=SS=- said:
As for clearing your mind of thoughts, don't even bother.. it can't be done, and anyone who tells you they are doing it is lying to themselves. You can't start or stop thoughts just by willing it to be so. It is a relentless stream that will only ever be stopped during a mystical experience.
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I don't agree with this. The mind can cease with a simple single-pointed meditation and empty of all thoughts. It starts by noticing thoughts and then relinquishing them. After that thoughts cease. Maybe it's just a matter of not noticing mind anymore but I don't think so. The analytical mind can and does go away in meditation, at least I've found. It's a temporary state but it's still achievable.

You don't quiet the mind through will, but through abdication.
 
I tend to lean this way as well Foreigner. If I was not able to clear my head of thoughts when necessary I would certainly reach a breaking point and at a high rate of speed. That is why I believe it is important to observe thoughts, then let them go. When the mind is clear of negative thoughts we can rebuild with positive ones. Emptiness is such a soothing feeling when under constant stress. Sometimes it is good to feel nothing and just be. That is when I feel the closest to myself. The fear is gone, at least in that present moment. If only that feeling could last. It is hard to stay on track when surrounded by such negativity. Patience and routine is key if results are expected to happen. That has been the most difficult challenge for me, sticking with it.
 
Foreigner said:
I don't agree with this. The mind can cease with a simple single-pointed meditation and empty of all thoughts. It starts by noticing thoughts and then relinquishing them. After that thoughts cease. Maybe it's just a matter of not noticing mind anymore but I don't think so. The analytical mind can and does go away in meditation, at least I've found. It's a temporary state but it's still achievable.

You don't quiet the mind through will, but through abdication.
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Well I guess it depends on what you believe the mind and thoughts to be. I know I've experienced a state of consciousness where it appeared that thought had ceased, where there were no clouds floating past the window so to speak, and in a variety of conditions: during sleep, one day last summer (that was a good day!), and during a mild mushroom trip when I was 16. I could not 'hear' the regular stream of constant thinking from my body, internal and external influences. It was very peaceful and refreshing in that state. But I'm not convinced thought had stopped, or that the mind had stopped, just that the turbulence had been so reduced so that it appeared it was totally calm.. it seems more like a gap in thinking than a stop.
 
I listen to Kirtan music. It can help bring you there or at least soothe your mind very much. Plus her voice is divine.

[video=youtube_share;D73LDwdDpIk]http://youtu.be/D73LDwdDpIk[/video]

Another favorite

[video=youtube_share;wIuesTkObG0]http://youtu.be/wIuesTkObG0[/video]
 
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Foreigner said:
I don't agree with this. The mind can cease with a simple single-pointed meditation and empty of all thoughts. It starts by noticing thoughts and then relinquishing them. After that thoughts cease. Maybe it's just a matter of not noticing mind anymore but I don't think so. The analytical mind can and does go away in meditation, at least I've found. It's a temporary state but it's still achievable.

You don't quiet the mind through will, but through abdication.
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Aye this is what I thought it to be / have been practising.

Can't remember is I've already posted the TED talk videos about Meditation and neurology? (Probably have)
 
Believe it or not, meditation is profoundly consciousness altering. Through meditation you can access all the parts of your brain that drugs can touch and then some, with far less potential for psychological or physical damage of any sort. It is true, I'm not denying that for some drugs can lead to some sort of insights and obviously be enjoyable in their way at least some drugs for some people but meditation and also lucid dreaming certainly can take you to some pretty fascinating places. I have been into both for quite a while and I have to say that meditation (and maybe even more with lucid dreaming) can lead to some pretty serious spiritual growth. Lucid dreaming in particular can lead to profound insights on the self, the universe, and maybe even God. Meditation as well can connect you with higher dimensional planes where you can meet entities within the psyche that can tell you things that guide you in life in amazing ways but you have to be very, very skilled. With lucid dreaming, you have instant access to all these "personal deities" as I like to call them. Eh, I probably sound like some type of lunatic (though we're all lunatics at times) here but at least if your far out there enough it probably makes sense.

BTW: I do believe in God but I feel that God is the universe and us at the same time along with any parallel planes that do yet not exist.

That pretty much sums up my life philosophy and religion in that last sentence
 
There are levels towards 'whole' meditation.
One take through Patanjali's 'Yoga Sutras' is as follows. Eight limbs of Ashtanga Yoga developed by Patanjali many many years ago....

1. Yamas - discipline concerning your dealing with society and the World ( there are 5 main Yamas, you can read about them if you so choose)
2. NiYamas - Personal discipline concerning your relationship with your self. ( again, 5 main ones, worth the research to check it out)
3. Asana - Practice of Physical Postures (this is what many westerners have adopted, this is Yoga; though one without the others would be like riding a bike with a flat wheel.
4. Pranayama- practice of breath and energy management.
**** and now we get into attempting deeper meditation
5. Pratyahara- withdrawal of the senses
6. Dharana - Concentration of the mind towards a single point
7. Dhyana - You become absorbed with the object of your meditation.
8. Samadhi - You become One with the object of your meditation.

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There are many variations of terms and methods to achieve. For most of us, achieving and surrendering to Samadhi can take years. The key is allowing your self the time and space to try. It is a process in my experience and though I have personally believed or felt like I experienced Dharana, I have yet to fully meditate into Dhyana or Samadhi (Nirvana).
 
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