Quick 2C-I Question

[DwayneHoover]

Actually, I always take 2Cs dissolved in orange juice, and I don't have problems with them being any less potent that way. I sip on the juice over a half hour or so instead of gulping it all down at once, that way when it starts coming up it doesn't hit me quite so fast and there's not as much nausea.



You can have a little snack before taking it, like a few crackers or cookies or something. They will coat the lining of the stomach and thereby help reduce any stomach irritation or nausea you might have. (I learned this trick from a psychiatrist when I was having trouble with some medication I had been prescribed.)

I've never heard of stomach acid or acidic foods being a problem with phenethylamines. Do you have a source for that?

What are you accusing me of making shit up?

Once I got a valid script for Dexedrine, and there was a sticker on the bottle saying do not take with citrus juices. I looked it up and found that ALL phenethylamines absorption is impeded by acids.

This commonly known fact of pharmacology.

Look it up yourself. Google [phenethylamine absorption acidic] or maybe substitute pH for acid.

Also I NEVER experienced any stomach issues from taking up to 30 mg of any 2C on a totally empty stomach, not even pure powder just dumped on the tongue and swallowed. That is such a miniscule amount of substance. But true some people do get nausea from them, and a VERY small snack as you suggest shouldnt affect absorption too much.

Sipping a 2C slowly over an hour is counterproductive, IMO. For maximum effect you want it to hit your brain all at once. Stretching it out will lower the buzz you get, not entirely but at least somewhat I am sure.

I've done many hundreds of doses of 2Cs over about 20 years time. And in my experience, all at once on a TOTALLY empty stomach is the most potent bang for your buck.

 

[nearjat]

Lol I used to mix solutions of PEAs in with orange juice, and now I learn how retarded that was

 

[DwayneHoover]

I suppose a single cup of OJ may not affect it much. To be honest the sticker on the Dexedrine bottle specifically mentioned "Grapefruit Juice", not OJ, so perhaps there's a large difference in acidity between the two.

But it is a fact that phenethlamine absorption is impeded by acidic stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall
"Urinary and stomach pH levels can have a strong effect on DL-amphetamine excretion and absorption.[9] An acidic stomach and GI pH will decrease the absorption of Adderall,[10] and acidic urine levels will decrease the reabsorption of the drug through the renal system.[11] Co-administration of acidic substances (e.g., citric acid) causes decreased renal reabsorption of DL-amphetamine, whereas alkaline agents (e.g., antacids) may cause a marked increase in renal tubular reabsorption."

http://www.drugs.com/cdi/dexedrine-spansule-sustained-release-capsules.html
"Do not drink fruit juice at the same time that you take Dexedrine Spansule Sustained-Release Capsules. Certain fruit juices (eg, grapefruit, apple, orange) may decrease Dexedrine Spansule Sustained-Release Capsules's effectiveness."

(this is not only true for dexedrine, but is a general property of ALL chems in the phenethylamine class, which both 2Cs and Dexedrine are. DH)

 

[nearjat]

Ah actually the grapefruit juice thing is pretty much always referring to a certain enzyme that it contains that can fuck with the absorption of some drugs. You can actually drink a tall glass of grapefruit juice to improve opiate potency

 

[Bi0hazardOpeth]

Be careful with snorting 2C-I, the strength is increased 2-3x. A good amount of people on these forums and elsewhere have had left over after effects from 2c-i. From never ending visual distortions in their vision, to fast heart rates whenever they smoked herb in the future, to panic attacks.

I would highly recommend waiting 2 months at least between 2c-i uses. I only wish someone had given me this advice before I got my package. Doing it twice in a month is near too much alone, this is a drug to respect and not over due.

Just a heads up.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Ah actually the grapefruit juice thing is pretty much always referring to a certain enzyme that it contains that can fuck with the absorption of some drugs. You can actually drink a tall glass of grapefruit juice to improve opiate potency

Correct about opiates, Incorrect with respect to amphetamines and other phenethylamines.

Yes, GFJ does indeed affect a certain enzyme, which can affect certain drugs.

But that has NOTHING to do with the effect on phenethylamines!

As proven by the refs I showed, the effect on phenethylamines is due entirely to the ACIDITY. Acids will cause phenethylamines to absorb more slowly and also cause sped-up elimination by the liver.

Here's more PROOF:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/64493.html

There is another section of the prescribing instructions that should be noted. Under "Drug Interactions" it is stated that certain substances decrease the absorption (or increase excretion) of amphetamines. One of the more common of these substances is fruit juice. It is a possibility that your need to slightly increase your dose of Dexedrine is in response to the ingestion of fruit juices (or other acidifying agents as listed under "Precautions Drug Interactions)

"Drug Interactions
Acidifying agents—Gastrointestinal acidifying agents (guanethidine, reserpine, glutamic acid HCl, ascorbic acid, fruit juices, etc.) lower absorption of amphetamines. Urinary acidifying agents (ammonium chloride, sodium acid phosphate, etc.) increase the concentration of the ionized species of the amphetamine molecule, thereby increasing urinary excretion. Both groups of agents lower blood levels and efficacy of amphetamines."​

http://www.drugs.com/cdi/dexedrine.html

Do not drink fruit juice at the same time that you take Dexedrine. Certain fruit juices (eg, grapefruit, apple, orange) may decrease Dexedrine's effectiveness.​

Bases cause the reverse effect and result in FASTER absorption and SLOWER elimination. Actually, eating several Tums or a couple spoons of baking soda prior to taking a 2C, Methylone, or MDMA will case it to come on faster and stronger. The last sentance of the Wiki article I did NOT show out of concern someone might harm themselves, but now I am past giving a crap:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall

.., whereas alkaline agents (e.g., antacids) may cause a marked increase in renal tubular reabsorption. The increased reabsorption can increase the retention of amphetamines, with potential to result in dangerously high serum levels.[11]​

There are a number of posts here at BL about that, but I'm not gonna waste my time looking them up. These are basic facts of pharmacology.

Jesus, arent there any other old-timers here with a knowledge of phenethylamine pharmacology who can back me up?

 

[digisynth420]

I would take it all orally and if you do snort it, do half and then do the other 10mgs when you come down. It will last longer orally. Anyways that is kind of an odd question because you will get alot of different responses. Your not suppose to ask for dosage advice either i believe.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I would take it all orally and if you do snort it, do half and then do the other 10mgs when you come down. It will last longer orally. Anyways that is kind of an odd question because you will get alot of different responses. Your not suppose to ask for dosage advice either i believe.

How can a site supposedly dedicated to "harm reduction" POSSIBLY say you are not supposed to discuss dosing information. That is just TOTALLY back-asswards and absurd beyond belief... if true it means BL's moderation-in-overdrive has gone TOTALLY off the rails. (I'm pretty sure that's either wrong or deliberately non-enforced as I've read thousands of posts here talking specifically and exclusively about dosing, with not a peep from any moderator, ever)

 

[nearjat]

Ah thanks for the read Dwayne

I don't think anyone's arguing against you is there? Don't need no backup

 

[atara]

For the record: I've used lots and lots of 2C-I with no negative aftereffects.

I don't see how it is a waste to snort, then.

'cuz the experience is better if it lasts longer and the headfuck from 2C-I is shallow and lacks the beauty of e.g. LSD or 2C-E. It's best at its entactogen-ish level; if you want to trip balls you're better off with something else. So, oral works best because you can party longer.

I found that the fun on 2C-I doesn't improve past the 20 milligram/oral point. Unless you have a tolerance, going higher simply doesn't make the trip any more fun. And it's a great social drug at reasonable levels, but a shitty solo trip.

People who try to make these drugs something they aren't ("man, moxy was nothing like acid") will usually end up disappointed.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I would take it all orally and if you do snort it, do half and then do the other 10mgs when you come down. It will last longer orally. Anyways that is kind of an odd question because you will get alot of different responses. Your not suppose to ask for dosage advice either i believe.

I agree with Roger&Me's remark: NEVER snort or smoke any 2C. They go into your bloodstream too fast and have undesired effects. A little buffering via the gut is actually a GOOD thing as it turns out, at least with some things. Those who don't believe all the sage advice to this effect and insist on a juvenile belief that all drugs are better the faster they get to you brain... probably deserve the tragic consequences they will eventually experience, better that they do not breed 8)

From first invention and testing by Shulgin and associates, dosing was ALWAYS oral, and if it can be said to have been tested for safety that ONLY applies to oral usage. FAR more very bad side-effects have resulted from snorting 2Cs than from oral dosing.

 

[zn13bt]

What are you accusing me of making shit up?

I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was just asking for more information. Sheesh.

I'll have to try some experiments with dissolving it in a less acidic drink to see if it's more potent that way. Maybe chocolate milk. But it's not like I've ever been disappointed when I took it in OJ.

Sipping a 2C slowly over an hour is counterproductive, IMO. For maximum effect you want it to hit your brain all at once. Stretching it out will lower the buzz you get, not entirely but at least somewhat I am sure.

Well, I prefer to ease into the experience rather than have it hit me all at once. I'm less likely to panic or throw up that way. It's not really an issue for me with 2C-I, but it is with some of the other 2Cs like 2C-E or 2C-T-2. Actually with 2C-T-2 I've found the best way for me to take it is to sip on half of the dose over a half hour, then wait an hour or so, then sip the rest of it for another half hour (by which point I'm just starting to come up on the first half of the dose). And I've gotten plenty of a buzz this way every time. :D

 

[DwayneHoover]

I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was just asking for more information. Sheesh.

I'm so sorry... I'm really an extremely pleasant and loving person in person. I don't know why I get so hyper-agitated typing in posts some times. I really don't know why was getting so worked up, sorry to everyone for acting like such a sourpuss. WRONG mood to be propagating in a forum on Psychedelics! Really I think I start just trying to be emphatic, and end up sounding cranky, doofus that I am! Perhaps I really need a big dose of that MDMA euphoria whilst posting... it sure couldn't hurt

Anyway, I dunno, maybe one glass of OJ isnt enough to affect it much. One of my friends was swigging off a big plastic juice container for a long time before taking 20mg and said he hardly felt it, while I was getting off great, and and after research that was the reason I came up with, no doubt he had alot more than you, like 1/2 of a 1/2 gallon jug spread over an hour.

Also I can imagine how people might have different biochemistries, pH levels etc., such that a glass of OJ doesnt affect it much. I don't see much need to dissolve it... I just down a capsule with a little soft drink, or dump the dose of powder on my tongue and have a swig of anything. I assumed once it hits the stomach it dissolves instantly, but who knows - I guess I ought to try it pre-dissolved, maybe its stronger that way.

It is possible you might get off even better if you didn't use juice. I would suggest some thing with as few calories as possible... not milk, the fat and protein might also slow absorption. Sweetened tea, or a sports drink or zero-calorie soft drink. It may well make little difference at all depending on the person, other foods recently consumed, etc.